Quote
And it would seem that very thing..."sharing our experiences"...would be the purpose of this particular forum. People do seem to enjoy bouts of mental gymnastics on here as well ... [b:6f679c3635]Those of us [/b:6f679c3635]who were initiated disciples of Chris Butler, and share that [b:6f679c3635]common experience[/b:6f679c3635], I think would simply like a place to talk about it all ...
I've no agenda coming to this forum. I landed here almost by accident I believe I mentioned in my earlier posts. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy finding this forum. Like most of you, I had some share of grief and even threats from this group and felt a solace among co sufferers. However, I share very little interest in sentimentalism, not that there is anything wrong with that, as I too shared with you my happy and not-so-happy moments in Horri-bol. (One posting though did not make it - my response to just googling - I don't why, technical or rulings, but I can't remember putting in any rants or endorsement. I wanted to know more info about Chibiyabos, and expressed my love for Chris' music, but not closed to endorsing it. I give credit where credit is due.) Anyway, I thought this forum has more pressing issues other than our past experiences, and I will not apologize for being quite strong about the children which I sadly regret may not be as pressing as I expected here.
Well, you all had been very helpful and I wish you ex-members all happiness in your newfound group. I'm sure there are other people like me, who do not stick to conventional thinking. I guess it applies to anything - you don't stick to a specific definition of things. What is brainwashing to one may not be so to others. There's nothing wrong with that. We are too quick to judge the cultists as black and white in thinking, but isn't the above close? There is a broad variation of thinking and all is not necessarily agreeable, but nevertheless be freely expressed. That exactly is the difference between a cult and the free world. The free market is where all sorts of opinions are appreciated, and is very tough to regulate. But out of the chaos come learning which again vary from one person to another. That's how people and even groups continue to evolve, through these variations, often times chaotic mind wars. Unfortunately, it's when regulations become more rigid and narrowly defined that learning become outdated and one-dimensional.
I enjoy so much reading about your experiences and your understandable hate of Chris and his group, they all are very, very helpful, and also I understand the feelings, but people outside our shared sentiment are more interested in facts. When I first entered this forum, the info on the affected families attracted me most. We need not dovetail our thinking to specifics, like if you believe all the followers are brainwashed, fine, but for those who differ otherwise, branding them as apologists or challenging their views as totally wrong is ... I say, here we go again. Nobody would convince me that everybody there is there for the guru alone. Most people I knew had the same suspicion as us, and I will bet my neck that they were there for the congregation. Even if Chris is gone, these people will still be there, whoever the leader is. These are the same people who will constantly join groups, not necessarily cults, but anything they find any sense of belonging, and this forum is not exempted. In fact, if you still find sense of belonging to any group, then you may not have left Chris after all. Physically, yes. But Chris may still be lurking in your minds. May not be Chris but the guru figure.
There's nothing wrong in belonging to a group but as long as you take it on your own terms and your reasoning always intact and independent. By the way, I never believe until this day that I was ever brainwashed. I joined on my own accord, and I don't make any excuses; I'm responsible and accountable for my acts and for people I brought to the group. I loved the movement, but my reason had always been intact and when challenged I left, just like that. If that is a fact, then you may have to look back and redefine your meanings of your anti-cult views. This is not an attack but a mere hope of finding a more meaningful discourse. I believe I'm never alone. But the children are entirely different, they are obviously being indoctrinated.
If I'm going to be challenged for saying this, or worse, censored, then I rest my case. I don't expect to make sense at all in an environment, not similar, but quite close to the one I left behind more than twenty years ago. Since I left that phony group I also left my rah-rah, groupie mentality there. My loyalty is to reason alone.