Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 23, 2021 05:10AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uncondotional love? Yes sure!

Yes, I no longer believe in this unconditional love in SIF. Lots of examples of a lack of empathy. But for the record - festivals. Nice kirtans, all sorts of activities, that's cool. Bombing with love. But for those old members who were helping to do this, there was not enough thank you. Oh, recruitment. But definitely a plus - nice ideas and, above all, kirtan. And the rest is a bit of a facade.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For people already struggling with mental health
> issues or who have a history of trauma, such cults
> can be even more damaging, Which is really sad
> considering that it is such people who are most
> vulnerable and attracted to such groups.
> Inevitably they build their entire identity and
> life around the cult only to, naturally, have to
> face their shortcomings full head when they
> eventually arise, sooner or later.

True

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The beliefs and practices of Ayurvedic medicine
> fall into three categories: (1) some that are
> obvious, well established, and widely accepted by
> people who have never heard of Ayurveda [e.g.,
> relax and don't overeat]; (2) a few that proper
> research may eventually prove valid and useful
> [herbal remedies may contain useful drugs, but
> their dangers and limitations often have not been
> scientifically investigated]; (3) absurd ideas,
> some of which are dangerous [e.g., that most
> disease and bad luck is due to demons, devils, and
> the influence of stars and planets; or that you
> should treat cataracts by brushing your teeth,
> scraping your tongue, spitting into a cup of
> water, and washing your eyes for a few minutes
> with this mixture]. (Wheeler)

What interests me is the reduced dynamics of the system that is the human organism. So if someone knows the basics of the basics of control theory and knows what are the solutions to the equation
dX / dt = AX (t) + BU (t). Homeostasis and stability. Chemical, physical, electrochemical, etc. Dynamics reduction. Reliable stability margins. Trajectories etc. This area.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 23, 2021 08:52AM

I hear you DaWatcher. Yes, ayurveda and any number of arts and sciences associated loosely with the Veda and finding its origin in ancient India are absolutely worthy of scientific consideration and review. There is no doubt useful knowledge that results in thousands of years of development. That being said, I am mostly interested in how the cults use this type of stuff as a tie-in to the larger cult ideas. The fact remains that none of the Ayurveda or contemporary hatha and even most meditation practices as taught by SIF or similar Krishna cults is really relevant to its core ideology and it is by no means some timeless revelation. It's slow, incremental evolution/development of various quasi-sciences, art forms and philosophies. I think one of the big issues is that they promote it all as some homogenous revelatory download. It's not. Vastu, Jyotish, Ayurveda, mathematics, philosophy etc, developed in India much like it developed in other parts of the world. Slowly, over the course of thousands and even millions of years. Along with the advent of written language and agricultural development there was no "advanced" prehistory. The pyramids were built over a loooooooong period of time. Many people died slaving to build them. Devotees often approach the veda as some sort of pyramid that landed from space all in one piece. The same logic wold apply to the evolution of the Krishna god, not mentioned in any original vedic tects, by name or otherwise. Let alone radha and Chaitanya and everything else your average bhakta burps up as "fact".

Anyway, I think you get my drift. And I get yours. I just want to stay on point in what makes this cult so elusive and how it often casts a wide web. If Ayurveda helps you or you have some systematic and scientific understanding of some aspects of it, I totally get that. I did herb enemas and drank cow urine for years under the order of an ayurvedic doctor recommended to me by fellow devotees (for anxiety attacks—which miraculously went away when I freed my mind of this cult). It did NOTHING for me. I appreciate its place in history and I do believe that certain aspects of it are common sense. And that is my main point. LIfe should be lived in accordance with common sense and works for you uniquely, not what is supposedly touted to work for everyone, but obviously does not.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 23, 2021 04:21PM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear you DaWatcher. Yes, ayurveda and any number
> of arts and sciences associated loosely with the
> Veda and finding its origin in ancient India are
> absolutely worthy of scientific consideration and
> review. There is no doubt useful knowledge that
> results in thousands of years of development. That
> being said, I am mostly interested in how the
> cults use this type of stuff as a tie-in to the
> larger cult ideas.

That's true. They use it for recruiting, they don't know it well. Here I gave an example of a form for "getting to know your dosha". The form was done haphazardly. Without explanation, etc. Belief in Ayurveda was blind, not supported by thorough knowledge.

> homogenous revelatory download. It's not. Vastu,
> Jyotish, Ayurveda, mathematics, philosophy etc,
> developed in India much like it developed in other
> parts of the world. Slowly, over the course of
> thousands and even millions of years. Along with
> the advent of written language and agricultural
> development there was no "advanced" prehistory.
> The pyramids were built over a loooooooong period
> of time. Many people died slaving to build them.

They weren't technically advanced, but they knew Pythagorean law here and there.

> Devotees often approach the veda as some sort of
> pyramid that landed from space all in one piece.
> The same logic wold apply to the evolution of the
> Krishna god, not mentioned in any original vedic
> tects, by name or otherwise. Let alone radha and
> Chaitanya and everything else your average bhakta
> burps up as "fact".

That is a thing to investigate.

>
> Anyway, I think you get my drift. And I get yours.

Yes

> went away when I freed my mind of this cult). It
> did NOTHING for me. I appreciate its place in
> history and I do believe that certain aspects of
> it are common sense. And that is my main point.
> LIfe should be lived in accordance with common
> sense and works for you uniquely, not what is
> supposedly touted to work for everyone, but
> obviously does not.

I understand you.
For me, Chris Butler's lectures were inspiring. Kirtans. The atmosphere was good at first. I met extraordinary people who, in the flood of capitalism, chose to search for transcendence. Strange behaviors began to appear, rude and incongruous with the spiritual seriousness. Fanaticism.

Ultimately, the hierarchical arrangement is questionable. Guru idol in Hawaii, a family that does not show seriousness because it lived off the marijuana trade, incidents. Below, the initiated caste is also layered. Those in advance can only smell Wail Lana mango over the internet and so on.

And the uninitiated. Working in dedication for 25 years. It is difficult for a sane person to accept a sanga where an initiated disciple does not care for a sick wife, does not pay the debts to ordinary sheep. He denies their existence. How is it possible that he has been initiated? Or another initiate reminds an uninitiated devotee who repeatedly helped him with a $ 25 debt that appeared 5 years ago, insulting him when that devotee forgave no less than 30,000 other SIF debtors, he helps repeatedly. When they broke up, the first one strenuously tries to feed on him by third parties. Or 25 years of devotional servant who they told him to be a horse, then he was a horse, be like an ape, then he act like an ape, etc. either a father of a family doing outreach or one employing many devotees. Great seriousness and responsibility. Still not initiated...So many years.

And initiated couple. Son. Marriage. Guy goes to young woman...

Or trust the leader who leaves the room when the child cries and yells "that if someone does not silence the child, he will choke him with these hands."

It's hard for someone in his right mind to accept this arrangement. This forces you to suspect that the Guru is not there, is imprisoned or substituted by someone, etc.

Sorry liers. Never ever.

Farewell.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2021 04:31PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 23, 2021 09:31PM

Run Forest Run, Everybody in that cult has built their identity around K consciousness.
Not only the mentally ill and those who have a history of trauma.
Of course their identity is built around it. We are told that our identity is eternal loving servant of Krishna.
The cult is full of extremely sane, talented, no past trauma people who hold very good jobs.
They were still brainwashed and mesmerized by butler.
When we have a history of abuse and mental illness, we have a tendency to put up with abuse more easily and normslize it. This is the only difference.
I know a girl who plays her cards like a champ and all she did was to travel from one center to the other. Mix this path with being a nomad who enjoyed krishna tourism.
Take the bliss and leave the rest. Like a bee.
She never answered to anybody. She had boundaries as solid as steel.
I know people who entered sane and left with anorexia and temporary insanity.
That girl had it all: good family, beauty, nice personality. She was the favorite of the leader of the center...
She held her crap together externally but on the inside she was pushed beyond her limits by one of butler’s most dear disciples.
She ended up running away and the police had to look for her.
I entered that vortex solely because I was a very sincere seeker of the truth.
I am a loner and hated with all my being to be surrounded by people every day.
What made me stay from the beginning was the way I felt. I was very quickly thrown my first supernatural phenomenon in order to make me beleive that this path was extraordinary.
I stayed because I was also benefitting from the path as much as I was destroyed by it. Fully in love with the deities and butler.
Islam and Christianity were forced upon many via the sword.
Krishna consciousness was very gently and in a discreet way brought into the west.
What were Bhaktivedanta’s weapons: The Maha Mantra, Bhagavad Gita and other names of the deities.
If people think these mantras are ordinary. Then good luck.
A path that is so seemingly beautiful and innocent turned out to be this amazing mess.
The Krishna consciousness started as a peaceful crusade. But the goal remains the same: Worship and Obedience.
Religions are boxes where the soul must accept one scripture, one deity, one teacher.
Bible/New testament=Jesus (the god of jesus is a bit kinder)
Torah=Moses (the angry god of israel)
Koran= Mohammed (The merciful Allah)
Bhagavad Gita= Disciplic succession (The thief of hearts Krishna)
As much as all these paths elevate us, offer good values, transcendental happiness..., they also limit us.
Is it a coincidence that the birth of Jesus and Krishna are rather similar?
Immaculate conception, persecuted by nasty kings...
The fact that Jesus is a hebrew mystic Yogi. That his teachings are close to bhakti?
The fact that Muslims also chant on beads, bow down, take their shoes before entering the mosque, require the same proper behavior between male and female, encourages women to be modest....
That the black cube on the head of jews is also present in the Mecca?
I spent all my life since I was a child respecting and loving the god and all the religions.
I wore the Allah, the star of David, aspired to be a nun, celebrated the birth of Jesus (not my religion) then ended up in the fantasy land of Krishna and his 16,108 wives.
I never saw a separataion between any of these religions and found happiness in relating to that higher power.
Be it a formless god or a krishna, balrama, radha, nitia gaur...
It was all quite nice and my faith carried me for many years until I took the red pill and there is no turning back.
I leave each person to reach their own conclusions. I did my best to make others understand that this reality is much more fringe that it seems.
That the beings on the altar are next level supernatural.
They are patiently waiting to see when I will forfeit. And I have not come to that conclusion very lightly.
As a person who hates the ordinary, I guess it is better to play a dangerous consciouss game of chess with the gods (architects of this reality) than to be an unconscious pawn in the hands of of butler.
Sorry I wasted the time of all of you on this forum with my long “fringe” stories.
I am not sure I made any valuable contributions by going deeper than the abuse, lies, brainwashing.
I was once told I have too much to say. Lol! That was when I was 19.
I must be a nightamre by now. Giving you all a well deserved break.
See you on the other side of the veil of lies and the science of mind control.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: October 23, 2021 11:01PM

Results may wildly vary, should be their disclaimer.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 24, 2021 01:57AM

Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen lesen Sie die SOI-Packungsbeilage aber besser fragen Sie Ihren Arzt oder Apotheker.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 24, 2021 02:22AM

Exactly:
For information on risks and side effects, read the SOI package insert, but it is better to ask your doctor or pharmacist.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: October 24, 2021 05:47AM

The concept of the moiety, becoming whole only in conjunction with the object of love/affection/desire/focus/meditation and any number of variants on the theme are not new, but rather as old as day. Early myths recognized the paradox of life, the yin and yang structure of macro and micro, of space, time, of being and non-being, of light and darkness, love vs. lust etc. These concepts and varying notions of it have expressions in many if not all major religions, primal myths, cults and philosophies and poetry. It's really a fundamental concept. How it is applied, practiced and realized varies by tradition, culture, philosophy and religious doctrine. But suffice it to say, it's at the crux of most spiritual systems.

We can argue its origin and who gets it has the right idea, or if it's even the right idea to begin with. Some try to experience this practice through intense emotional states created by sex, drugs, breathwork, meditation, cold exposure, kirtan, japa, reading the love stories of krishna and radha/gopis or Samkhya, Advaita, yoga and other processes. The goal is essentially the same. To dissolve one's sense of self/autonomy/difference/separateness and unify it with the

The whole point of a religious doctrine is to establish a system/blueprint for how to go about realizing/experiencing that state or reality. And religions/cults go to great lengths to really complicate that. You will be asked to chnat on 108 beads, some mantra, 16 times, follow xyz rules, shave your head, leave a sikha, tie the sikha, wrap the brahman thread 3 times around your thumb, take achman 3 times, while fucking twirling around and clapping behind your back. You will be asked to read all manner of crazy myths and told that they are factual historical people, events and situations. You will be asked to wash your gurus dirty jocks, make complicated videos for him, post them on social media to "purify humanity" and vote for his political candidate. You get the idea.

When all is said and done you will be standing on your head, offering a ghee lamp clockwise to a plastic statue while being no closer to any realistic state described above. It's not that you will not have your blissful moments or get used to and comfortable with your new reality. Unfortunately, youu will. You may even reject the reality at hand altogether and pretend it is "Maya" and live in a mild state of fear of engaging with the world around you. Or you may tend more towards a practical approach of "karma yoga" and engaging in your "dharma" and living a "saatvik" life. And these are all nice and usful ways to remain a part of society. In fact, it can be argued that the gita largely advocates karma yoga, i/e/ doing your duty, engaging in that which you are naturally talented and trying to just be an all-around responsible, decent person. I'm all for that. But i take it a step further that you need not really fill your mind and time with all the other stuff these cults proote to be that. You can in fact and should in fact study and question why your cult even requires you to do half the stuff it does and by what authority and measurable process. The answer will be a resounding echo.

The scriptures of all faiths suggest a simple idea when all is said and done: Man proposes, God disposes. Krishna, god, reality, the universe, brahman—reacts to our ebb and flow because we have invented and created them. And so we can argue them or find a reason for them into our existence. The varying expression of reality that we have, are as unique as we can imagine them to be. But until we have valid proof or a consistent method with uniform reuslts and application, it is simply an opinion and can be taken as such. No need to hang up your coat if it is not something that makes sense to you or makes you feel like you are stuck, emotionally, spiritually or materially.

I see on here many comments that devotees are kind or successful or do good welfare work etc etc. Yes, that's great and if that is what their Krishna consciousness helps them to be and they need it to be that way, by all means. But it is not the Krishna consciousness that is responsible for those things. Some of the most intelligent, kind, generous, and happy people I know as well as successful and inspirational are not devotees. Not by a long shot. Sp we can say it is their karma, their choice etc. But all that aside, karma, reincarnation and any number of ideas we like in Gaudiya Vaishnavism are not the philosophical property of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Even the achintyabedhabedha concept is not new. Yin Yang is precisely that and predates any Chaitanya saint or Nimbarka or others.

The point is that every novel concept is simply a remix of a previous novel concept going back to the day some ape discovered how to control fire, harness the ability to make sounds, communicate in a language, create art, music and discover and convey concepts of what beauty is, what truth is, what meaning, purpose and life is about. And trust me, every culture, prehistoric and contemporary has played and toyed with these ideas endlessly to "remix" what they consider paramount and of utmost importance.

India, the "holy land" and where this particular faith and others like it find their orgin is not superior/better or in any way blessed in any meaningful way because of these religions/philosophies. Like everyone else, they are subject to the raw realities of an often unloving, uncompassionate, and very violent universe. It's greatest and lasting and standing contribution is found primarily in Brahma vidya and Samkhya systems of philosophy. All other religions that grew out of that to encompass theistic ideas are somehow directly or indirectly a remix of those central ideas—with added layers of complexity often totally irrespective and irrelevant to the core tenants. it's almost as if the idea was too simple for man to grasp so they needed to make it more complicated. And then the endless remixes started. But as is often the case, the remix is never really as good as the original. And the fact is that the remix would have never existed had there not been the original to begin with.

Another observation:

Many devotees will often take to drugs and alcohol when they leave the cult or even remain in the cult as fringe devotees doing these things because lets face it, the practices/philosophy did not leave them any happier, blissful or content. Some even engaged in such activities because they hate themselves and feel fallen and well, what the fuck, I'm just a worm in stool so might as well get shitfaced. Maybe then God will finally notice me. After all, Nitai is the savior of the most fallen, so might as well be as fallen as I can be. Such people will continue to go to the temple/center and pretend it is purifying them etc. In fact, we are even told such nonsense in the cult that when we are sincerely chanting "many impurities rise to the top of our consciousness". As a general rule this is why sometimes these practices are really not the best way to deal with mental health issues. They create a sort of vortex of spiraling emotional states that are hard to contain and often lead to depression and self-loathing. and in extreme situations suicide or severe mental breaks/psychosis etc. Ex devotees or those in between cults can often find themselves in a very lonely and isolated space as there are not many people who can relate to what they went through and experienced. Krishna consciousness can be a very complex web of rituals, rules, philosophical concepts, traditions, cultural nuances etc—this can literally scramble your brain over time and make it difficult to relate to anything and anyone outside the structure of the cult dynamic. Floundering bhaktas will keep wearing neck beads, keeping sikhas or occasionally chanting a round in desperation. and it's near impossible to explain to a therapist the details of your situation let alone anyone outside the cult. To make matters worse, the cult, from an institutional standpoint, has no mechanisms/process, or systems in place to help such devotees. They are essentially "on their own". There is no unbiased party that can hear their plea, doubt, argument or views without risking judgment, ex-communication or cheap-n-fast advice that butters over the crux of the issue, "just keep chanting Prabhu! All will be revealed in due time by gurus grace".

Anyway, it's a tragedy I'm sorry to say the state that most find themselves in, in such groups. And to say that it "works for some" is highly subjective. What exactly is working for them? Some temporary aspects may work for them for some time. Everything that is new is a novelty in the beginning. So the badge of honor in any such cult is defined by the length of time you've been in it. No one wants to admit that wasted their time for 20, 30, 40 years. In the beginning, Prabhupada was everything to his followers. But when he passed it became quickly apparent that they really just sort of built their life around this personality/persona with little in the way of any personal growth/advancement. To perpetuate the illusion/sentiment, they made plastic statues of the founder and put them in every temple. Old-time disciples, endlessly recount the grand stories of the past that have since taken on almost mythical tones. Not much unlike the old man at the bar who is reminiscing about the good-old-days. But of course, they paint such recollections as "transcendental" because it recounts the pastimes of their perfect teacher. But what kind of life is this? The devotee sitting on FB recounting the good-ol-days of early ISKCON or Butlers group is trying to appeal to the new generation by posting on Facebook or Instagram and everyone blindly shouts "jai jai" and moves on to the next post. Is this a substantial spiritual life? Is this even remotely what the sages of the past were trying to discuss and convey? Emoji namastes and rabid haribols?

These are the things I ponder when I look at it all and it gladdens me I no longer have to worry about it. Well, besides trying to convey it to all of you and ask, "is it not so?"

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 24, 2021 08:52PM

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

I agree with most of your statements. I am only commenting on excerpts:

> I see on here many comments that devotees are kind
> or successful or do good welfare work etc etc.
> Yes, that's great and if that is what their
> Krishna consciousness helps them to be and they
> need it to be that way, by all means.

The narrative of success - material - then clashes with the teachings of Caitanya, especially the story of serving the brahmana, from whom Caitanya did not want a blessing with material benefits. The recruitment narrative at the beginning of SIF Poland, as I quoted one of the main leaders, was "And they buy themselves a flat in the best district of the city". This leader bought himself a house in the best district of the city. Today he is recruiting "to the Vikings".

Another aspect strictly in the context of SoI / SiF is that in fact some are "sucessful". Only there are those whose success is based on ordinary hard working sheep. A finger can show businesses that are not officially and formally owned by SIF, but whose origins were based on a free or underpaid work of dedicated devotees who saw their spiritual role in it. When the business was "commercialized" they asked for shares. The answer was "no". Although, for example, they put significant money into them. Back then, it was not the business bosses but the local "spiritual" leaders who fed them with the narrative that "they should not expect their money back". When you look closely and as described by the former member of SIF Poland on mantrujcie.pl, it turns out that an elite is being created again, "successful devotees" whose success, however, is based on cheaper, friendly or free work. However, when they are to spend money in their businesses, they often prefer to pay less - business contractors - than their friend devotees. Conversely, when they have to enter into a permanent deal with someone outside the cult, they are forced to pay them more than their devotee friends.


> The point is that every novel concept is simply a
> remix of a previous novel concept going back to
> the day some ape discovered how to control fire,
> harness the ability to make sounds, communicate in
> a language, create art, music and discover and
> convey concepts of what beauty is, what truth is,
> what meaning, purpose and life is about. And trust
> me, every culture, prehistoric and contemporary
> has played and toyed with these ideas endlessly to
> "remix" what they consider paramount and of utmost
> importance.

Yes, but one can distinguish the depth of the observations formalized in a scientific or journalistic form.

The theory of guna's is important here in the context of cyclical phenomena, the development of which is not constant, there is stagnation and then the phenomenon of social degradation, the collapse of civilization, states and empires.

Thus, the equivalent of guna's theory are such identified phenomena as "social cycle", "Tytler cycle", "Glubb cycle". Or geopolitical phenomena like the "Thucydides trap", where the outgoing hegemon, seeing his rival's growth, decides to destroy him while he is stronger. which shows that there are phenomena where economic, scientific or military development is not infinite, does not saturate to equilibrium, but a zero-sum game is replaced by a negative-sum game - the destruction of players.


> Many devotees will often take to drugs and alcohol
> when they leave the cult or even remain in the
> cult as fringe devotees doing these things because
> lets face it, the practices/philosophy did not
> leave them any happier, blissful or content.


One of the phenomena which I experienced in the dualism of being a member of SiF Polska and practicing "bhakti-yoga" was at some point a gradual mental degradation. I did not spend time reading the scriptures, I took up practical classes. Supporting on a practical level. At one point I noticed that this seva turns me into a mental moron. My mind is retreating. Years later, reading the scriptures thoroughly healed my mind. It is worth mentioning that the narrative of the leaders at SIF was that in order to control the mind one has to read the scriptures. But it was a "technique" rather than a search for understanding or wisdom. Because recruitment, teaching, outreach was "topmost activity". But what to learn if you don't get smart ...

The second phenomenon that I noticed when I was single, single, i.e. not married, was that part of my personality had died. After leaving SIF or taking a long distance, I experienced a "resurrection" of a large part of my personality when I entered into a relationship. So much to discover the depth of your relationship. Of course, this did not solve the problems of the limitations of myself in terms of abilities or attractiveness, as well as of people with whom I had a close relationship, but I experienced an "inner resurrection". Which made me realize that the practice did not give depth to the personal relationship.

Or even understanding or recalling the nature of its complexity or properties.

> etc. In fact, we are even told such nonsense in
> the cult that when we are sincerely chanting "many
> impurities rise to the top of our consciousness".

This is another aspect that I will remind you - I mentioned. Referring to the Buddha's teachings, the Buddha spun the Dharma wheel 3 times. There are different teachings of the Buddha at different stages. It looks like the stages of development and going from ignorance to goodness and then enlightenment.

Now, if the naimittika dharma is directed or created by working with ignorant persons, it will bring bad results when applied to persons in passion or kindness. And as we know, we have confirmation that the origins of SoI in Hawaii after the departure of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was to focus our eyes on helping drug addicts. From SoI members' statements to the newspaper.

This hard tamas-oriented discipline would only bring devastation to the people in satva. And this observation was shared by various former members of SoI Polska who left for other sangas.

So the statement "chant more those are your many impurities" when confronted with the discipline for the ignorant is at least incomplete, if not false.


> These are the things I ponder when I look at it
> all and it gladdens me I no longer have to worry
> about it. Well, besides trying to convey it to all
> of you and ask, "is it not so?"

Yes. Freedom is actually like the Himalayan breeze.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2021 09:01PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: October 24, 2021 09:08PM

And, of course, there's an understanding that striving for success has its transformations in the domain of wealth and power. Some strive for wealth, others for power or a hybrid. But the nature is that it causes conflicts. When a war or battle breaks out, the target may be wealth (robbery etc.) but there are players who target trophies. As in Operation Barbarossa, the German generals "wanted to be the conqueror of this or that city" (trophies or glory). Which, of course, at times devastated the effectiveness of their operational command. Or, in the collision with the stiffening Soviet defense, forced them either to save themselves and their units and switch to comfort mode. As far as I remember, it was Gunther von Kluge.

Scene: "It is not about money, it's about power". But for Predator, trophies count ...

[www.youtube.com]

Guna is changed. Mode is changed.

King Willy finally on the altar:

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2021 09:17PM by DaWatcher.

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