The way in which Butler and his followers think runs something like this: they feel that any money and anyway to get money out of this whole political endeavor is purifying each and every person who donates or is sued or has money extracted from them in anyway. They feel that the more people who donate to this representative of Krishna, the more purified the world will get.ISKCON did the same kind of stuff. They approached unwitting people at airports and said whatever bullshit they needed to say to extract money from people. It was called "the pick". All Butler is doing is a 2.0 version of the pick. Why deal in chump change when you can extract millions from the demons and purify the world? Butler and Tulsi statements both past and present reveal that they are concerned with dividing the world up into devotees and demons. "lower than a blade of grass" went out the window a long time ago in this cult. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to hear a lecture of butlers either past or present that doesn't reveal the superiority complex and arrogant tone. You definitely don't get the vibe that this is a humble human being. In tulsi's recent public announcement of why she is suing Hillary Clinton, she spends majority of the letter describing what seemingly wonderful person she is because she is a patriot and so forth. Even common people who are her supporters found it distasteful that she went on and on describing herself as some kind of a military hero. She was a desk clerk in the army. The entire fact that she even signed up to be deployed for such a completely bullshit War is also very suspect. The so-called war on terror was the biggest political and Military blunder in history. You gotta question someones sanity at least a little bit for having voluntarily joined up, especially when they are a so called devotee.

Again, I ask the question, what business does a silly Hari Krishna Mickey Mouse Club cult have in getting involved in politics? Let alone getting involved with convicted drug smugglers, financial fraud schemes, and anti-homosexual activism? If you remember the premise under which the bhagavad-gita was supposedly spoken, it's kind of mirrors this scenario. There are many problems that arise when devotees start to take the myths and legends of their scriptures as literal. The stories are simply there to illustrate philosophical Concepts, not to be imitated and taken at face value. But to butlers followers, tulsi is their arjuna hero and butler is Krishna. And the political climate they injected themselves into makes kurukshetra look like a rubberband fight.

[www.washingtonexaminer.com]

Looks like people are starting to see Tulsi for who she really is. A Democrat who swings Republican talking points and has flip-flopped on every major issue to gain popularity. Sounds like her Guru. This opinion piece reeks of the same crybaby tactics that have been used by Tulsi and Butler over the years. She wasn't invited because she lacks authenticity about what she really stands for and who she is. The same reason that Butler was rejected for years by any vaishnava groups. There was no clarity about what he represented and stood for even within this small Fringe religious cult.

"We can be better as a species if we recognize religion as a man-made construct. We owe it to ourselves to at least consider the real roots of religious belief, so we can deal with life as it is, taking advantage of perhaps our mind’s greatest adaptation: our ability to use reason."

-j Andersen thomson

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In tulsi's
> recent public announcement of why she is suing
> Hillary Clinton, she spends majority of the letter
> describing what seemingly wonderful person she is
> because she is a patriot and so forth. Even common
> people who are her supporters found it distasteful
> that she went on and on describing herself as some
> kind of a military hero. She was a desk clerk in
> the army.

"Any patrols, any fire battles?"

> cult have in getting involved in politics?

Good question, especially SIF leaders in Poland describe politics as "dark forest".

> Let alone getting
> involved with convicted drug smugglers, financial
> fraud schemes, and anti-homosexual activism?

"where's the f*****g money"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 05:30AM by DaWatcher.

[harekrishnathing.com]

[harekrishnathing.com]

[prabhupadasaid.com]

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [harekrishnathing.com]


Not objective which is easy to show but also stigmatizes irregularities.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [prabhupadasaid.com]


“The Bible should be accepted literally and not symbolically.” Hard to say that are words of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami, when he wrote a lot's of comments to the scriptures.

Problem is with translations. Something about 11 thousand versions, where even translation from Jehowa Witness'es which is very good is against their own doctrine or "contains undiscovered coils".In practice, there is also Madhurya-rasa in the Bible. Anywaye there are prakrita-sahajiya among the supposed followers of Vishuism.

The division into demons and devotees is also simplified. We have devotees (different levels of realisation), we have innocent, demonic, impersonalists, prakrita-sahajiya, etc.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 03:26AM by DaWatcher.

[prabhupadasaid.com]

Quote

“Kill all the mudhas and give Krishna to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Krishna’s.”
5 November 2015

Prabhupada said, “Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Krishna. And those who are mudhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mudhas and give Krishna to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Krishna’s. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mudhas.” – Morning walk, 21 January 1976, Mayapur

To understand what Prabhupada meant by calling us 'mudhas' go here:

[vanipedia.org]

[vaniquotes.org]

[vaniquotes.org]

So basically a Mudha is anyone who does not accept their specific god. Got it. Very credible and logical indeed. Pretty much the formula of all fanatical religious groups.

DeWatcher: What do you mean it's "Hard to say that are words of ACBS"? It's right there in the transcripts on the Vani archives (along with many other lunatic comments, ideas, dogma):

[vanisource.org]

Do you think people have time to make shit up about this cult and write thousands of pages of lecture transcripts to debunk some fringe cult? These groups abuse followers, kids, are involved in shady money schemes, political power trips and misinformation about nearly everything while hiding behind a so-called hindu banner and crying "religious bigotry" when they are revealed for the bullshit peddlers that they are.

Where in the Bible do you find any Madhurya Rasa? Nowhere. Conjugal love is specific to the Vaishnava cult of Bhakti. It is literally the ONLY religion that speaks of devotees realizing their eternal spiritual form as young gopi cowherd girls who help Radha and Krishna get off in their "love pastimes".

The division in Butlers group and all of these groups is very simple: Those who are in "Maya" and those who are part of the cult and on the path to "liberation" via the method of mantra chanting. The various impersonalists and sahajiya and so forth are all considered by the devotees like Butler to be "demons" and in "Maya". So no, the division is not over-simplified. That is truly the way they see the world. That is how the kids are raised and that is what is preached in the cult. Plain and simple. Read through Vani—there is no shortage of outlandish comments and ideas being proposed. For every ounce of logic and reason there is 1000 ounces of "woo woo" that you can't unsee... but then again, I am a demon.

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So basically a Mudha is anyone who does not accept
> their specific god. Got it. Very credible and
> logical indeed. Pretty much the formula of all
> fanatical religious groups.


In this case the context was lost and it was treated too generally. Just take a look:

[prabhupadabooks.com]

Quote

Prabhupada: Still, if you say, "You are mudha," they become angry. Such mudhas, rascals, they are in the government service. And if you say that "You are mudhas," he becomes angry. Upadeso hi murkhanam prakopaya na santaye: "If a mudha is advised nice instruction, he becomes angry." He does not take it. Payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam: "If you give milk and banana to a snake, you simply increase his poison." One day he will come-(growls). You see? "I have given you milk and you..." "Yes, that is my nature. Yes. You give me milk, and I am prepared to kill you." This is mudha. We have to kill this civilization of mudhas. That is Krsna consciousness movement. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8]. Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Krsna. And those who are mudhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mudhas and give Krsna to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Krsna's. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mu?has. [break] ...wal, did you come here before?

So you can see that the word "kill" falls in the context of narrowing the term "mudha" to politicians who are ready to kill someone who teaches them or "gives them milk". So the term "kill all the mudha" is a far-reaching generalization. The lost context of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami words.

Or at least the beginning of the paragraph outlines concentration on politics and then first of all this "mudha" is assigned the readiness to kill.


> DeWatcher: What do you mean it's "Hard to say that
> are words of ACBS"? It's right there in the
> transcripts on the Vani archives (along with many
> other lunatic comments, ideas, dogma):

I respect original Veda and today's science. And verify. As I showed earlier - there is always someone changing something. The original dies. The question of verification methodology arises. And I use these tools. Also logic and other. For example you can find explanation for ayur-veda in system dynamics advanced course with mathematics. Quite shocking can be...


> [vanisource.org]
>
> Do you think people have time to make shit up
> about this cult and write thousands of pages of
> lecture transcripts to debunk some fringe cult?

I do have. I do not have interest in cults. Already suffered because of the engagement in this cult. Anyway I did not loose the interest for the Truth.

> These groups abuse followers, kids, are involved
> in shady money schemes, political power trips and
> misinformation about nearly everything while
> hiding behind a so-called hindu banner and crying
> "religious bigotry" when they are revealed for the
> bullshit peddlers that they are.

True. Event nowadays if you listened to the people coming from SIF centers in USA there is utilitarianism in treating the people (business). They are slowly opening their eyes which is not easy.

> Where in the Bible do you find any Madhurya Rasa?
> Nowhere. Conjugal love is specific to the
> Vaishnava cult of Bhakti. It is literally the ONLY
> religion that speaks of devotees realizing their
> eternal spiritual form as young gopi cowherd girls
> who help Radha and Krishna get off in their "love
> pastimes".

Of course there is. But you have to remember i.e. that Jews got rid of the wife of Jahwe, Asherah. Etc.etc.

Or take the traces from the Book of Genesis, where God creates man in his own image and likeness - woman and man. And not the man alone. A woman from Adam's rib. Not everything has been removed.

But it is not the place and time to discuss that.


> The division in Butlers group and all of these
> groups is very simple: Those who are in "Maya" and
> those who are part of the cult and on the path to
> "liberation" via the method of mantra chanting.

In practice we may have groups in which understanding is shallow, or the party mentality bolts more subtle perception and so on. Party mentality means breaking yama. It's practically inevitable. That's how i see it but i can be wrong.


> The various impersonalists and sahajiya and so
> forth are all considered by the devotees like
> Butler to be "demons" and in "Maya". So no, the
> division is not over-simplified. That is truly the
> way they see the world. That is how the kids are
> raised and that is what is preached in the cult.
> Plain and simple. Read through Vani—there is no
> shortage of outlandish comments and ideas being
> proposed. For every ounce of logic and reason
> there is 1000 ounces of "woo woo" that you can't
> unsee... but then again, I am a demon.

True. In fact, however, all living entities have been given some form of freedom and their choice is whether they want to be in the spirit world or in specific areas of the material world. Freedom of choice. As far as it was offered to them. Love is freedom. Violation of freedom is a symptom of a lack of love. No one will be forced to love. And that was one of my allegations about the moods and behavior in SIF Poland against leaders, etc.

Of course, someone brought up, for example, in honest non-clerical or nativity Catholicism or following the teachings of the Buddha, especially ahimsa, will not have attraction to aggressive attitudes. Notwithstanding that individual freedom and rights are in one way or another regulated by law.

However, if someone asks the question whether sects for recruitment purposes color reality by exaggerating its flaws, this is true, and so it also looked at SIF Poland. Of course, the question of difference in value systems or levels of sensitivity arises again. Eg vegetarianism and not killing animals.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2020 05:37AM by DaWatcher.