Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: January 18, 2020 02:31AM

Where there is smoke, there is fire:

Part 1


Friday, February 01, 2019
Gabbard Cult Hires Scientology Lawyer to Intimidate Hawaii Media
By Andrew Walden @ 6:57 PM :: 5561 Views :: Congressional Delegation, First Amendment, Religion
by Andrew Walden

"Birds of a feather flock together.

With Tulsi Gabbard running for President, her cult guru, Chris Butler, is lawyering up. The Star-Advertiser, January 27, 2019, reports:

…Butler and the Science of Identity Foundation hired a Beverly Hills, Calif., attorney who threatened to sue the newspaper. Their primary focus was on ensuring the Star-Advertiser didn’t publish allegations from people who say they were former practitioners of the religion, including two who told the newspaper they grew up listening to Butler’s lectures.

The “false allegations” under consideration by the newspaper “paint our clients as charlatans and hypocrites,” said attorney Anthony Glassman, in a letter to the Star-Advertiser. He said that if published it “will severely damage SIF’s and Mr. Butler’s well-­deserved reputation in their community, as religious, spiritual and moral guides (and Ms. Butler’s reputation as a yoga instructor.)”

Glassman is known for his years of work suppressing media coverage of the Scientology cult – with a special focus on preventing former cult members from speaking out. A 2009 Tampa Bay Times article titled, “Three of Scientology's elite parishioners keep faith, but leave the church” includes this:

Responding for the church, Los Angeles lawyer Anthony Michael Glassman said it's "astonishing" the Times is giving "a public platform for the views of disgruntled and biased former members. …”

Attempting in 2014 to shut down media inquiries into Scientology’s Narconon front group, Glassman drew derision from Scientology critics:

He would not win a lawsuit based on the article. Glassman is like Tom Cruise's attorney, Bert Fields (and the same age of 74) - all smoke & hot air.

Most threats are toothless - they have not sued media in 14 years.

But Glassman thinks he has a new trick, libel tourism. The Star-Advertiser writes:

The firm, Glassman Media Group, also warned the Star-­Advertiser that if it publishes “false and defamatory allegations that are eventually published in Ireland,” then SIF planned to also file a lawsuit there that would be litigated by Paul Tweed, a high-profile media attorney known for suing news organizations on behalf of celebrity clients. It’s not clear why the story would be of interest in Ireland, but The New York Times explained in a story last year that Tweed has “made his name suing news organizations like CNN, Forbes and The National Enquirer on behalf of Hollywood movie stars, winning high-profile cases for celebrities like Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake by hopscotching among Belfast, London and Dublin to take advantage of their favorable defamation or privacy laws.”….

A lawyer threatens to call in a lawyer? Hilarious. But Glassman is years out of date. Congress shut down libel tourism with the 2010 SPEECH Act. As the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press explains:

...the SPEECH Act bars U.S. courts, both federal and state, from recognizing or enforcing foreign libel judgments unless certain requirements are met, including consistency with the U.S. Constitution. More specifically, when a party who has obtained a libel judgment against an American author or publisher in a foreign court comes to an American court to enforce that judgment, the court is prohibited from doing so until it determines that the judgment is consistent with First Amendment safeguards...." End quote.

Source:[www.hawaiifreepress.com]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: January 18, 2020 02:39AM

Part 2:

The presidential candidate, the controversial guru, the Scientology lawyer — and us!
By Tony Ortega | February 2, 2019



[Tulsi Gabbard, Chris Butler, and Anthony Glassman. Not pictured: Your proprietor]


Quote: "We had a fun surprise last night when we realized that Hawaiian media has been buzzing about a story that had a slight connection to, well, us.

You might have heard that among the hordes of people who have announced their bids or are thinking about running for president on the Democratic ticket in 2020 is a US representative from Hawaii and the first Hindu member of Congress, Tulsi Gabbard, 37.

Gabbard announced her candidacy on January 11, but already she’s run into some strong headwinds from the media. There was a piece in the Intercept, for example, that dug into her connections with Hindu nationalists in India, and her tendency to have friendly associations with authoritarian regimes in Syria and Egypt, even though she’s positioned herself as a progressive candidate.

And the press has also been very interested in her family’s background with a Hare Krishna sect that calls itself Science of Identity Foundation, under the guidance of a man named Chris Butler, 70, also known as Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa.

Gabbard tends to play down her association with Butler’s sect, but her parents clearly were very involved in the small movement, which somehow combines vegetarianism, environmentalism, and a rabid hatred of gay people.

And you thought Scientology was weird.

This question about Tulsi Gabbard’s connection to Butler and the Science of Identity Foundation is not new. In 2015, the Huffington Post dug into the story, pointing out that when Tulsi’s father, Mike Gabbard, was running for the same congressional seat in 2004 and was hoping to upset an incumbent named Ed Case, a Honolulu magazine sent an email asking the elder Gabbard about his ties to Butler. His daughter Tulsi responded, saying “I smell a skunk. It’s clear to me that you’re acting as a conduit for … homosexual extremist supporters of Ed Case.”

In 2012 Tulsi broke with her father’s views on homosexuality and embraced marriage equality, but reporters are still asking questions about her ties to the controversial Butler.

“The Gabbard family’s ties to Butler still hound her — in the hallways of the Hawaii State Capitol, on blogs of political observers, on pages of online discussion forums, and in commentary sections of various news sites,” the Huffington Post said, and that was in 2015, well before the intense glare of a presidential run. In the fall, the New Yorker provided a lengthy examination of the controversy, and even got Butler to give a rare interview.

Then, on January 27, Hawaii’s largest daily newspaper, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser, looked closely at those ties, pointing out that in a 2015 video, Tulsi Gabbard referred to Butler as her “guru dev,” which the paper said translated roughly as “spiritual master.”

Butler himself turned down an interview request from the newspaper. And the Star-Advertiser turned to cult expert Rick Ross…

Rick Ross, executive director of the Cult Education Institute, a New Jersey-based nonprofit that researches and advocates against destructive cults and movements, estimated he had been in contact with more than 100 people over the years who were involved in the group. He described Butler as a “dictatorial leader” who has exploited followers of his brand of religion.

“He is a hateful person. He is homophobic. He has said horrible things about the LGBT community,” said Ross. “And he is, to say the least, not exactly an icon of either idealistic or ethical living.”

The Science of Identity Foundation responded by having its attorney, Anthony Michael Glassman, threaten to sue the newspaper. Glassman complained that the newspaper was talking to sources who “paint our clients as charlatans and hypocrites.”

An alert local website realized that Glassman was not your run-of-the-mill libel attorney. He was, in fact, one of Scientology’s busiest lawyers.

“Gabbard Cult Hires Scientology Lawyer to Intimidate Hawaii Media,” the website titled its scoop, which came to our attention last night. [POSTED ABOVE]

Glassman!

Oh, if our counterparts in Hawaii only knew." End quote.

Source: [tonyortega.org]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: January 18, 2020 02:55AM

A reminder: Tulsi Gabbard’s personal guru is a real piece of work
By Tony Ortega | October 19, 2019




[Tulsi Gabbard, Chris Butler]


And suddenly, Tulsi Gabbard is in the news again in a big way.

We don’t really have anything to add to the sort of wild back-and-forth between Gabbard and Hillary Clinton. But we just wanted to remind people that Gabbard, the U.S. Representative from Hawaii, brings some pretty interesting baggage to her presidential candidacy.

In February, we wrote about how Gabbard grew up in a strange Hindu sect, the Science of Identity Foundation, that on the one hand promoted a pro-environment vegetarianism, and on the other hand advocated for a virulent hatred of gay people.

Gabbard has disavowed that part of her upbringing, claiming that she’s fully on board for gay rights, but recent evidence, including videos, suggests that she still considers Science of Identity Foundation leader Chris Butler, a/k/a Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, to be her personal “guru dev.”

Butler has not reacted very kindly to press inquiries about him and his group, and we noted how interesting it was that Butler hired a Scientology attorney, Anthony Glassman, to try and intimidate journalists asking questions.

Gabbard says she’s been the subject of a program of character assassination, but ignoring this part of her background doesn’t seem really wise. Anyway, we just thought, as long as Tulsi is back in the news, that we might remind folks of that February story.

Source - [tonyortega.org]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 18, 2020 03:04AM

VoxVeritasVita Das Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as religious, spiritual and moral guides

Since there is an opportunity to refer to moral and spiritual guidance, let's look at another example.

Below is a quote or rather assurance, allegedly from Bhagavad Gita, which comes from a Filipino Facebook account liked by many devotees.

Quote
- the assurance of Lord Krsna in Srimad Bhagavad-gita.
"Give up all your occupations and just become surrender unto Me. I give you assurance that i shall give you protection form all sinful reactions. Don't hesitate. Don't consider that because you are giving up all other engagements there will be some flaw in your life. Don't think like that. I will give you all protection"

Below is a quote from the Bhagavad Gita translated by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah

SYNONYMS

sarva-dharman—all varieties of religion; parityajya—abandoning; mam—unto Me; ekam—only; saranam—surrender; vraja—go; aham—I; tvam—you; sarva—all; papebhyah—from sinful reactions; moksayisyami—deliver; ma—not; sucah—worry.

TRANSLATION
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.


And below the link - also the purport is also to be verified is it original from A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami, but was easier to put quotation.


[asitis.com]

The Christian meaning of the word 'religion' is different from the Vedic meaning of the word 'dharma'. Religion in this system is not something related only to beliefs, moral values, behavior regulation, symbolism, liturgy, paraphernalia, etc. but also to the division into periods of life or social roles or varnasrama-dharma or specific instructions like naimittika-dharma. It can be considered that different types of activities of persons performing different social roles such as intellectuals, the management layer, businessmen or farmers as well as workers and peasants can be described by the word "occupation". However, in the narrow interpretation of the word "dharman" as "occupation" is already a big abuse.

The question arises about the credibility of this "Filipino spiritual initiative".



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2020 03:32AM by DaWatcher.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: January 18, 2020 03:27AM

It may take a few years but eventually the TRUTH trickles down to more people.
From somewhere on the web..

Quote:
Chris Butler aka Jagad Guru Srila Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa


Butler with AC Bhaktivedanta circa late 60's


Chris Butler aka Jagad Guru Srila Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa isn't really important enough to be categorised on this website but he's interesting both for his strange career as a guru, his secrecy and worldly success and his downright pathetic skills as a guru, teacher and musician. Its painful to listen to his nasal speeches with their repetition, long pauses between words (especially when he cannot think of the next word), his hatred of homosexuals and 'karmis' and his dyslexic, kindergarden version of Srila Prabhupada's 15th century Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Praphupad was a scholar, Butler was an LSD freak. There is a difference. Prabhupad was an old man, Butler is now an old man but you'd not know that by looking at his pictures on the web. Some of his critics insist he must be an expert in mind control and hypnotism but they have no idea just how many completely ignorant and incompetent gurus have gathered a loyal following based on chutzpah and bullshit.


"Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa is a highly respected yoga guru (teacher) coming in a long line of authentic spiritual masters in the ancient Vedic tradition known as Vaishnavism. Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad (1896–1977), propagated Vaishnavism widely in the Western world. Jagad Guru Srila Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa is the humble disciple of this greatest of scholars and devotee in modern times.He is the founder of the Science of Identity Foundation and has expertly taught students all over the world in the science of yoga." - blurb from Science of Identity Foundation.


Sai 'So Gay' Chris Butler was not a drop-out,he was expelled from high school. He was a doper and discovered God on an LSD trip. He certainly isn't unique but unlike most others he decided he should be a guru and called himself Sai. I recall it was "white lightning." It's difficult to maintain a delighted and dedicated following when drugs are the guiding light and Butler was floundering as a guru when he came across Krishna Consciousness. He may have been sincere or he may have decided to use ISKCON and Prabhupad as an aide to the big time but he announced he was now a devotee of Prabhupad and Krishna but (controversially) maintained a guru-disciple relationship with his 200 or so crew as they also joined ISKCON.




Siddhaswarupananda Goswami, as he was named, could not tolerate ISKCON's heavy discipline and harsh lifestyle and soon skipped and called his crew back to Hawaii along with anyone else they'd been able to gather in the ISKCON temples to which they'd been sent. Back to Hawaii sounded good. Prabhupad was okay with that as long as you chanted Hare Krishna and made donations. Who knew Butler wanted spiritual respectability but since then he just can't stop glorying in his parampara and using long, impressive Hindu titles. His followers glorified his "siddhas" which he'd renounced of course. Seeds of narcissism and megalomania sprout quickly and grow tall in the Hawaiian climate.



At first Butler lived like a sadhu in a simple hut with no electricity as he had no money but he, surprisingly, decided to go into business with his minions to do the work for free. He is not the only guru to come up with this business plan. He bought the first health food store on Kauai, opened one on Maui and then "Down to Earth" in Honolulu. The timing was right. As time went by he withdrew more and more, rarely appearing before his faithful. He started to record lectures and write books instead of mingling with the multitudes. Feeding them tapes and myths, he delegated leadership to his faithful lieutenants to maintain control. He became more and more critical and punitive. He would periodically disappear when his followers would get too familiar. His threatening to "leave the planet" if they didn't please him was another way of exerting control.

He went from simple living to luxury condos with a staff of cooks and housekeepers and go-fers. He assumed full King of the World status after Prabhupad died including wife and pretty much anything else he could afford. Sure his followers worship him, they kiss his divine Lotus feet, drink the holy water in which his feet are washed, eat his toe-nails and brainwash their children but give him his due, Butler has been criticised heavily, understandably so, but he has never been charged with any crimes unlike his fellow authorised Krishna divine gurus. And it's difficult sometimes being a sensitive divine guru in this modern world. Like Rajneesh and others, Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa is allergic to many perfumes, detergents and other cleaning agents and can you imagine how difficult it is to clean away the residue of cleaning agents without using cleaning agents? It's no coinicdence that long-time follower and politician, Mike Gabbard, distributes air and water purifying systems.

In Australia they call themselves the Australian School of Meditation and Yoga and promote themselves as an introductory yoga, meditation and lifestyle teaching group. They have kirtans at my local beach and library and a vegetarian restaurant as well. They seem to be a successful organisation though there is no mention of Chris Butler or Siddhaswarupananda except amongst the playable and downlodable music section. As a singer/songwriter he is still totally crap and his Australian kirtan singers are ok but that's all. They've had a presence here on the Gold Coast since the early 1970s when they were a rag-tag bunch of ISKCON drop-outs praising Siddhaswarupanand in their ISKCON lingo and they've gradually gone mainstream over the years adding the Yoga to their name.

Like Sri Chinmoy, Butler has declared his wife, Wai Lana, to be holy and to be worshipped. They are both worshipped as the only 2 holy people on Earth who can connect you to Krishna, the only true "Pure Devotees" of Krishna alive. Unlike Chinmoy, Butler hasn't yet demoted his wife to being a karmi ('karmis' are materialistic people who have little or nothing to do with spirituality). Wai Lana looks like she is using plastic surgery to maintain her looks rather than yoga.

Its great being a divine guru even if you're only being worshipped by a small coterie of devotees and aren't really famous but Chris really wanted to be a rock star. Incredibly he has put his first single, Dear Fanatic, on the internet for anyone to hear. It does show why he isn't a rock star. Drag down the page to find it.

Butler has been able to influence politics in Hawaii with some of his long term followers becoming elected to local, state and even US House of Representatives. It is handy to have a rent-a-crowd available anytime which you don't have to pay for. They began with a fanatical anti-homosexuality platform. Ms Tulsi Gabbard who is a Hawaiian representative publicly calls Butler her guru and identifies as a member of the Gaudiya Vaishnavism Sect of the Hindu faith now claims to be a supporter of LBGT despite her earlier anti-gay statements.
Anyone can grow up even if they've grown up in a cult." End quote.

Source:[www.prem-rawat-bio.org]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 18, 2020 04:41AM

That about sums it up Vox.

It's missing the stuff about the PI schools or even his time in the PI and attempts at starting groups/centers/followings in Poland, Russia, NZ etc.

The man has lived in beachfront homes paid for by his devotees for over 40 years. It's really incredible.

I think it makes sense that there was a steady evolution of this character named Siddhaswarupananda, but I also think he was crooked from the start in his ambitions and pull to ISKCON in the early days. Just as much as nowadays he seems to have no problem asking ISKCON gurus and temples and followers fro money and political support. He, like Tulsi, will flip and flop to get to where they need to be—at the expense of anyone and anything short of murder on their own hands. This is like the classic mind manipulations of Manson and other psychopaths. They will create a mental maze in their disciples mind and use that to get what they want.

I agree was Lana looks a bit touched up—be it makeup or plastic—and that it's actually very silly considering that they put so much effort into preaching about the bodily concept of life being a fallacy of thinking and identification. Don't get me started on the videos. Suffice it to say, people who watch those and give it a thumbs up on YouTube are likely to get off on the theme song to Elmo. Mantra electric was so much better, but alas, we were not allowed to listen to it—though we all did. It was the only electric guitar licks we were getting and we were gonna take it by hook or by crook!

Anyway, nice string of articles, opinions and facts here. It points to the same basic message: Hopefully another generation of people don't fall for this clown.

Namaste and Aloha.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 18, 2020 05:52AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it makes sense that there was a steady
> evolution of this character named
> Siddhaswarupananda, but I also think he was
> crooked from the start in his ambitions and pull
> to ISKCON in the early days. Just as much as
> nowadays he seems to have no problem asking ISKCON
> gurus and temples and followers fro money and
> political support.

It may sound strange, but I really had the impression that I am dealing with at least 2 different personalities. Similarly, if you consider the letters - those that were given to me was associated with the feeling that they were either edited by women or fragments. Also looking at the pictures, some seem to portray a person with more delicate features. I haven't seen Bruce Butler's photo anywhere.

Anyway, returning to the element of creation - in the case of "Reality of Reincarnation" illustrations depict mainly Siddhaswarupananda.

A little light is cast by the fact that, e.g. many serious women in Poland were not initiated. And young activists of the next generation were initiated. This raises doubts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2020 05:54AM by DaWatcher.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 18, 2020 09:27AM

The process of initiation is they're to create hierarchy and Status. No matter how you slice it, the most unqualified people have more status within the group if they are initiated. This done creates a sense of tension. As there are many non- initiated folks who are 1000 fold more committed in various aspects of the mission then certain initiated disciples are. Butler went through many phases where he would initiate many people all at once and other times where he would hold off on initiating people who are within his group for many many many years. Needless to say, it was confusing for some of those devotees because they always felt that they were doing something wrong, or that they had committed some sort of an offense. But obviously there was no explanation ever offered to such people and they simply floundered. Naturally, and in due course, such people felt the need to seek out guidance and shelter in other groups. When such an event happened, these folks would be harshly excommunicated from Butler's group. I think that in initiating younger people, Butler was looking to add new life and blood to the organization. It's suited his purposes in modernizing his mission. These young recruits were Savvy on the internet and were able to take on mass overhaul projects of Science of identities various websites and social media Outlets. The older devotees then lost their usefulness. The older devotees then or either left in the dust. Or, as is the case with people like acharya das and Bhalakhilya das, with the help of the younger blood they reinvented themselves as top devotees within the group. The rest of them seem to have become Bots for the Tulsi campaign. In the eyes of the new generation, very few of them know of Butler's history. They are simply told that everything they might hair negatively about him is simply smears by demons and disgruntled devotees. The second generation, like some of my comrades from the Philippines School, have so much family and baggage within the group that they are completely unable to extricate themselves fully from the group out of fear or simple dilemma.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 18, 2020 09:54AM

In my own situation I was very fearful initially to speak out against this group/butler. It was not till I started to study vaishnava history, mythology and had been through similar group dynamics in other groups that I started to gain some courage. My childhood was lost and I felt a deep anxiety about what I had gone through. Once this forum, and various other blogs came around mirroring my experience and then Gralows journalism, I had already made my peace with the nonsense I was fed.

But initially I thought for sure some awful event would befall me or that I was negating my whole spiritual journey by speaking out.

I use my name in this and other articles because I want to show folks that you can move past this, have a happy family, job, and still evolve spiritually, philosophically etc. But, in my case, not without throwing all that you think you knew, into the trash. Sometime with attitude, but mostly with sound reason and logic.

Perhaps the new generation of butler devotees are doing it different. I have not seen that they are. Like Tulsi, they flip and flop to try and make it work. This is a bad look and red flag. To evolve forward it requires to drop wholeheartedly what did not work in the past. Just as genetically nature does not hold on to dna that does not work and assure survival. Spiritual life is not devoid of grit, harsh realization and progress, should you choose to accept it.

But for this new generation this may become increasingly difficult. The internet, which SIF has mastered through it's new recruits, is hardly a viable source of info.

A funny story: in the 80s, purushottam das bishop, bhalakilya das and a few senior devotees thought it a fun idea to bring up tulsi leaves and smoke them. This is when we were told that butler was nityananda and katyayani was mother yashoda. Needless to say, this kakamani idea was smashed by butler. Though senior devotees did continue to drink near beer like oduells.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 19, 2020 05:07AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The process of initiation is they're to create
> hierarchy and Status. No matter how you slice it,
> the most unqualified people have more status
> within the group if they are initiated. This done
> creates a sense of tension. As there are many non-
> initiated folks who are 1000 fold more committed
> in various aspects of the mission then certain
> initiated disciples are.

Here it should be recalled that Siddhaswarupananda explained what the initiation process is. And this is not formalism but the actual acceptance of the person as a Guru. He also mentioned that he noticed that uninitiated students tried harder than initiates. During the perturbation with the departure of SIF Poland members to another sanga (the specific circumstances are not completely known to me), the question arose as to how SIF Poland adheres to the traditional initiation process with initiation of hari-nama, diksha and then brahmin-initiation.

What caught my attention and raised doubts very quickly are the so-called recommendations for initiation. In Poland, it was such that a person who wanted be initiated by Siddhaswarupananda had to to write a letter and get recommendation of another initiated disciple. I don't remember the details well. I remember that this just raised my doubt, because in this way selection for a higher caste or creation of a party hierarchy could take place. At some stage the so-called the recommendations were dropped, but I did not know the details.

> Butler went through many
> phases where he would initiate many people all at
> once and other times where he would hold off on
> initiating people who are within his group for
> many many many years. Needless to say, it was
> confusing for some of those devotees because they
> always felt that they were doing something wrong,
> or that they had committed some sort of an
> offense. But obviously there was no explanation
> ever offered to such people and they simply
> floundered.

I don't remember another explanation of why this was happening and rules were changing to the SIF Poland community. It should be remembered that in SIF Poland, the initiates may not have given all the lectures or letters to the "smaller sheep". Once it was said on a retreat that people were forbidden to listen to certain lectures or to have copies of them. One devotee asked Balakhilya das if he could listen, especially since he had all the copies and the answer was "yes, he can".

There are cases in Poland where the women involved from the early days of SIF Poland, who were very devoted students, were not initiated and there was a refusal. This aroused a great surprise or disappointment among her friends. The question, however, arose such that perhaps a formal initiation for that person would be detrimental because of false or party prestige. The symptoms were such that she looked depressed. In turn quickly another person the initiation of about whom seriously professionally engaged people in technical activities judged that "he has two left hands". This person was, however, covered by "caste care", ie due to his involvement in preaching, he was supported by verbalized expectation, eg for financial support. It was visible. It looked weird.

> Naturally, and in due course, such
> people felt the need to seek out guidance and
> shelter in other groups. When such an event
> happened, these folks would be harshly
> excommunicated from Butler's group. I think that
> in initiating younger people, Butler was looking
> to add new life and blood to the organization.
> It's suited his purposes in modernizing his
> mission. These young recruits were Savvy on the
> internet and were able to take on mass overhaul
> projects of Science of identities various websites
> and social media Outlets. The older devotees then
> lost their usefulness.

Yes, there were signs of a utilitarian approach to students in Poland. Those who were not fully engaged fell in the classification. That was a surprise, because there was a lecture by Siddhaswarupananda, where he clearly stated that students who with utilitarianism treat other devotees are wolves in sheep's clothing. This increased the impression that theory is one thing and practice is another and it is increasingly moving to reach the heights of sectarian hypocrisy.

> The rest of them seem to have become Bots for the
> Tulsi campaign.

Bots for the Tulsi Gabbard campaign are also a big surprise for me, because again I remind you that there is a question about the giant karma associated with responsibility for millions of stray animals in US slaughterhouses - according to the philosophy, this responsibility falls on those in power or involved at various stages of animal exploitation


Returning to older devotees, e.g. Balakhilya das and earlier material, which I have refrained from publishing the analysis, one element is visible. During the dialogue, Balakhilya das mentions at some point that even living on a lonely island will not provide peace from stress. At this point he becomes joyful. I bet that because of the fact that he is talking to a nice, warm woman devotee from Ukraine, this vision is quite captivating. I bet he would prefer to live with a serious warm woman devotee on a desert island, work together, chant the Holy Name, worship God, do kirtans for monkeys and trees and thus make a life together and return to God than live in a civilization, deal with claims women or give lectures that are too general, no discussion with pandits for the benefit of the listeners etc.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2020 05:24AM by DaWatcher.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.