Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 13, 2020 09:19PM

What about Bible?

    [*] supreme antifaggot
    [*] supreme homophobe

Biblical Perspective on Homosexuality

[www.focusonthefamily.com]

Quote

“speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15)

In love there is no place for contempt/disdain.

[www.nytimes.com]

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ROMANS 1:26-27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.,


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LEVITICUS 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Detest it is not disdain/contempt.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 09:28PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 14, 2020 04:24AM

Gaudiya Vaishnavism has nothing to do with generating homosexual hate. A Gaudiya guru has no reason to spend any time discussing sex life, let alone with such vulgar language and description and to kids. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is a spiritual practice that forbids sex unless it be for creating more little Krishna kids. That's it. Butler used a lot of energy to create hate towards a group of people. Very odd for someone who preaches against the bodily concept of life. Why spend so much time and be so agitated and disturbed by what other people (people who probably have no interest in gaudiya vaishnavism) are doing in the bedroom??? It's one thing if some disciple asked about homosexuality as a lifestyle within the scope of gaudiya vaishnavism. And if that happened, the answer would and should have been short and sweet: It has no place. Sex has not place period in the gaudiya vaishnava religion except to make kids. Any attempt at further creating agitation and hate toward a group of people for their sexual orientation is a nonsensical mental endeavor for any Gaidiya guru.

Homosexuality is a part of the animal kingdom and has been present in every culture for thousands of years. The pre and pst vedic scriptures dealing with spiritual topics will typically forbid it for those who are spiritual seekers and socially there are many many injunctions against homosexual behaviors in Manu samhita and other pre and post vedic ethical books. Some Indian temples feature homosexual stone carvings as well as possible beastiality and so forth. There are countless explanations and interpretations for this. Most likely it was during a sexual renaissance of sorts in Indian arts. There are many images from such time periods featuring Radha and Krishna copulating as well as many sexually charged stories and myths regarding Krishna were written by "love" poets describing in detail the breasts and other sexual features of assorted gods.

Gaudiya vaishnavism proclaims that pastimes of divine characters are beyond the material context. That these tales are somehow "transcendental" and that those who are not "advanced" and "purified" should not contemplate these stories. Of course the stories are readily available in the scriptures and you don't quite get a warning when they will happen. It's also difficult because followers both new and old are asked to attend lectures where various pastimes are read and bhajans are sung that hint or explore these pastimes. It's also not clear who is a "uttama adhikari" as there is no singular expression of what such a state looks like. Instead, we hear stories of assorted "mad" behaviors of various saints that are explained away as being "advanced". There are stories of saints poking their eyes out after looking at a woman or having "dreams" where they see various holy places or simple they fall on the ground chanting and crying and shaking. Then you have your garden variety "pure devotees" like Butler who has given up sanyas, married his disciple, stole property from his guru, is involved in financial fraud schemes and political ambitions and uses vulgar hateful language to describe homosexuality, Muslims etc... and is considered a Jagad Guru by his followers.

Most of Gaudiya Vaishnvaism and Vaishnavism period has developed overtime heavily influenced by social customs and restructuring as well as outside influence. It's core ideology is that of surrender to a guru, accept the mantra, and absorb in mediation in bhajan and kirtan until ones swarup is revealed. The exact method and process may include diety worship, scriptural study and service, but it's core tenant is chanting. Even the mantra is not fully powerful until it is heard from the bonafide guru. So unfortunately many devotees will spend many many years of their life following a teacher only to lose faith and trust in them and this then explains their deep dissatisfaction as they have been chanting a mantra that lacks the potency and proper effect. Even though the scriptures may express that the holy names are all powerful, upon close inspection it is explained to most devotees eventually that they need "diksha" and to follow XYZ rules and don't read this, read that, don't listen to this, listen to that etc etc. it's a constant form or paranoid vigilance. So finding the proper guru becomes a fanatical compulsion of most devotees and eventually turns into personalilty worship, as all success hinges on the right equation to get the right result. God simply could not have made it more of a royal bitch to "realize" "him" and seems to enjoy the "Lila" of "har to get".

Butler plays out this Lila as well. He's very hard to get to. Except to those few complete fanatics that can look past the shit above.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 14, 2020 04:36AM

And for the record DeWatcher, detest/disdain/contempt—they all mean the same thing. And faggot has not referred to a bundle of twigs singe at least the 60s. Homosexuality was considered a mental disorder in America well into the 80s. The fact is Butler has some odd fixation with homosexuality. It literally eats at him and scares and bothers him immensely. He detests it, has disdain and contempt toward it and downright loses his shit about it. Rama has suggested in the past that the man has some latent homosexual repressed emotions. It's not uncommon for homosexuals that undergo religious "conversion" to "rid" themselves of homosexual tendency to become angry and violent against homosexuals. Tulsi was a proponent of electro-shock therapy for "fixing" homosexuals when campaigning with her father against homosexuality. She has never made any comment about this and has never to this day rejected those opinions and views vocally. It must piss off butler so much that she now masquerades as pro-gay. Oh wait, he told her to do that...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 14, 2020 05:21PM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gaudiya Vaishnavism has nothing to do with
> generating homosexual hate. A Gaudiya guru has no
> reason to spend any time discussing sex life, let
> alone with such vulgar language and description
> and to kids. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is a spiritual
> practice that forbids sex unless it be for
> creating more little Krishna kids. That's it.
> Butler used a lot of energy to create hate towards
> a group of people. Very odd for someone who
> preaches against the bodily concept of life. Why
> spend so much time and be so agitated and
> disturbed by what other people (people who
> probably have no interest in gaudiya vaishnavism)
> are doing in the bedroom??? It's one thing if some
> disciple asked about homosexuality as a lifestyle
> within the scope of gaudiya vaishnavism. And if
> that happened, the answer would and should have
> been short and sweet: It has no place. Sex has not
> place period in the gaudiya vaishnava religion
> except to make kids. Any attempt at further
> creating agitation and hate toward a group of
> people for their sexual orientation is a
> nonsensical mental endeavor for any Gaidiya guru.

Yes

> Then you have your garden variety
> "pure devotees" like Butler who has given up
> sanyas, married his disciple, stole property from
> his guru, is involved in financial fraud schemes
> and political ambitions and uses vulgar hateful
> language to describe homosexuality, Muslims etc...
> and is considered a Jagad Guru by his followers.

Too many controversies.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 14, 2020 05:23PM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And for the record DeWatcher,
> detest/disdain/contempt—they all mean the same
> thing. And faggot has not referred to a bundle of
> twigs singe at least the 60s.

My english is too bad. However, there is difference where someone:
- is feeling detest towards someone else
- this feeling is combined with a sense of superiority
- it is expressed (all variants)

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 15, 2020 12:22AM

Not sure if you guys saw these lecture transcripts and kitchen policy files of butlers. Astounding obsession. We listened to this and MANY more lectures as young kids. Devotees laughed as Butler cracked "fag" jokes and spent an inordinate amount of time expressing his hate for homosexuals. Also, his ridiculous kitchen policies wherein he is micromanaging people like slaves and literally fining them for screwing up small things. No normal human lives like this and no guru should either. It's not hinduism. It's not religion. it's not anything more than pure narcissism and egomaniac behavior.

[allglories.blogspot.com]

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 15, 2020 12:56AM

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [allglories.blogspot.com]

"Discipline"

DELIVERIES D16 "All kitchen crew must recite policies 3 times a week"

IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not religion. it's
> not anything more than pure narcissism and
> egomaniac behavior.

I have not been "on-site", but have bad feelings reading it. One has to consider illness combined with I-generation neuroleptics side effects.

It is also hard to substitue care or common sense with "many rules". Next question is are circumstances favorable for trust, care, wise initiative.

Fixing:

However, there is difference where someone:
- is feeling detest towards someone else activity
- is feeling detest towards someone else (because of some activity)
- this feeling is combined with a sense of superiority
- it is expressed (all variants)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2020 01:11AM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 15, 2020 01:27AM

Again:

Quote

Srila Bhakti Vijnana Bharati Gosvami Maharaja

"Guru [bona fide spiritual teacher] maintains a disciple in two ways: through affection and through chastisement (lalana and tadana). Lalana means giving affection and tadana means to discipline or chastise, which is another aspect of affection. If it is one-sided [only giving affection but not chastising], then the affection is not complete – it will only be 50%. When there is only affection, but not chastisement, then in such a case, the affection cannot be deemed complete []. So guru will offer both, he will discipline as well as give affection."

(excerpt spoken in Jan. 2014)

If we consider "the list" to be form of chastizement, what about affection? When new kitchen team members come to the kitchen, can they already have a relation that is bases on affection Guru-disciple?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: January 15, 2020 03:45AM

Discipline and chastisement are one thing for a child—these disciples are all grown adults. Not even a full-scale restaurant has this many rules to follow. This controlling list gives too many opportunities for butler to "chastise". When there is this many rules and restrictions a person cannot even fathom and have faith in their own brain to make decisions. You are inadvertently setting up your followers for unavoidable failure.

It's one thing to adjust a disciples respective or give some chastisement for a small misunderstanding. Butler has had rules like this in place for YEARS. Many devotees have received letters condemning them of "not caring about their spiritual master" and thereby negating their ability to make some advancement spiritually. That is the crux of it. Butler sets up his disciples for failure by either putting unneeded stress on them about his care or literally controlling every aspect of his care where using ones own brain and common sense becomes null. This creates a literal mental handicap in his followers. Not to mention in Butler himself as a guru. Ritual seva is one thing. This is narcissistic control over eery aspect of a followers life. And guess what happens when y9ou cannot take it anymore? You get harshly rejected and shamed by the guru. You know how many letters we were read as kids that condemed out parents or top devotees we looked up to because they missed a step on a policy list like this or had to tend to their own fucking kids once in a while??? We lived in constant stress and anxiety of displeasing butler and going to hell—lifetime after lifetime.

Affection and chastisement do coexist as a way of teaching and applying discipline. But when they negate any room for using ones own common sense about things the disciple never learns anything. They simply follow a rigid system of thought and that crosses over into every aspect of their life. they literally cannot function without the directive of the guru about EVERYTHING. A guru is a spiritual teacher—not a psychologist, doctor or academic teacher. When a guru starts to exert this level of totalitarian control over his followers it becomes a form of narcism. How can any one human being—spiritually advanced or otherwise—dictate this much power? Of course the disciple will fuck up. And then what? Are they to live in a vortex of endless chastisement and anxiety about pleasing their guru's specific "tastes". Krishna asks in the Gita that his devotee offer him a flower, leaf, water—Butler is asking nothing short of a miracle of his devotees.

At what point is the distinction between seva and slavery to an insane man?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: January 15, 2020 04:40AM

There is no seva for an insane man.

If the fruits are bad, reason can be i.e.:
    [*] students insincerity
    [*] material motive
    [*] offense
    [*] lack of knowledge
    [*] disease
    [*] control imposed
    [*] abuses due hierarchical utilitarianism
    [*] forgery of communication
    [*] mismatched naimittika dharma (ie. modified for drug addicts applied to satva-kids)

Of course as on "Stress" material of Mr. Midget and Ukrainian "looking scared" student, there can be misunderstanding of the realities. For example Mr. Midget talks about the extravagant lifestyle. The reality of Ukrainians was that they earned $ 50 per month. When they came to Poland, e.g. for looking after elderly people, women earned about USD 500 per month. 10 times higher. Is this an argument about the source of stress by Mr. Midget "Always happy" that suits Ukrainian realities?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2020 04:50AM by DaWatcher.

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