Surely the congregational chanting of the Holy Name - Maha Mantra, with the respectful mantras to the Acaryas of the Parampara and the Sri Panca-Tattva mantra Maha Mantra work and bring benefits. My hard experience in the situation of realizing that the worldly dirt both in the mind and heart, allowed me to appreciate the Force of Life - Caitanya. Personal experience of bright light in the darkness of the state. Anyway I can see it as worth of noting.
> In the end, as you can see from your comments here
> dewatcher, there are way too many inconsistencies
> and conundrums that can arise from practitioner to
> practitioner that no group could possibly answer
> and satisfy.
The problem i saw was no desire to solve it. Maybe I was not much determined to communicate it. Probably i would be classified as heretic or iconoclast. Mr. Messer.
> This in turn leaves the devotee in a childlike
> state of reliance on the group. Within the group
> it makes sense and feel okay because everyone
> around you is also blindly following and turning
> off their mind.
True, but the benefit from the congregational chanting of the Holy Name, Guru's teachings, scriptures reading is present - as i experienced.
> I agree that mantras have some ability to focus
> the mind if practiced properly. But most devotees
> take it at face value. The actual combination of
> syllables in some way equate spiritual progress.
> Nothing could be further from the truth. As you
> mentioned, it is about intent.
If you recall the teachings of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, he is talking about healthy cells in the mind / brain. Considering whether or accepting the existence of three modes of material nature, satva, rajas, tamas, one must also take into account the properties/effects of the force under which he is in control. Take, for example, a look at the schools of Buddhism - here is a comparison of schools (in Polish):
Buddha swung the Dharma wheel three times. I have not found an english translation.
Translation (Google Translate)
Today, Buddhism is divided into three great traditions: Theravada (Sanskrit Sthaviravada), Mahayana (Great Way), and Vajrayana (Diamond Way). They correspond to the so-called Three Turns Dharma Wheel, or three cycles of teachings that the Buddha gave during his life. The following tables contain the basic differences and doctrinal and cultural similarities of the traditions of the Great and Diamond Way.
Studying this comparison lets you suspect that these are the next stages of spiritual realisation connected with changing the influence of three modes of material nature. A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami mentioned about coming out of the mode of ignorance to passion, the passion for goodness and then avoiding the mode of passion and ignorance.
Either way, as one of the SIF Poland students who went to another sanga said, the spiritual development train should move on two rails - studying scripts and chanting / practical engagement(seva). I will not give you the exact sound.
> So, if the
> practitioner is chanting with the intent to become
> increasingly devoted in service and mind to their
> crooked spiritual teacher, guess what? That is
> what they will get.
The teaching is, that benefit comes out of speaking transcendental sound and / or listening to it. An advantage for both the speaker and the listener, where not every person will be qualified to become a speaker / teacher.
As for the sincerity of the student's approach to either listening or serving the Guru - a transparent medium - it is a matter of introspection. He will not cheat on 3 modes of material nature. The attempt to exceed your abilities with the destruction of your health will be in the tamas category and the attempt to e.g. get a clap in the sand by being 'serious' will be in the 'rajas' category.
> If one approaches a spiritual
> life with the understanding that no Miracle or
> great Enlightenment will happen anytime soon and
> that they will need to rigorously study the
> scriptures and perhaps even cross reference with
> other scriptures as well as hear from various
> teachers in order to find something that
> corresponds with their level of understanding. So,
> it is a very personal self discipline.
Job to do
> Unfortunately in the west most if us want a simple
> sugar pill to solve all our problems. Chant and be
Sankirtan is the answer. But effort is innevitable. But humble effort.
My experience and not only mine was that the naimittika dharma not suited to individual gun became a problem. This was noticed by several independently studying the subject, in particular one devotee, who studied the subject of 3 modes of material nature for 20 years being a member of SIF Poland and at some point - with anxiety but still humbly - enlightened me.
The late lectures were also beneficial on that particular subject.
Of course, reading different scriptures, the question arises of the authenticity of their author's realisation, verification using sanskrit dictionary, instructions, logic or understanding the meaning of reductionisms.
Was this devotee respected from his studies on the three gunas? Not really.
Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2020 03:40AM by DaWatcher.