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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: March 10, 2008 10:31PM

Quote
chick
It seems to me that the BK method is related to the Sedona Method which is a way to teach people how to disassociate.

chick
Hi chick,

I don't know if there's any direct connection between Byron Katie's approach and the Sedona Method. But there does seem to be an indirect connection, which you've pointed out... that the application of each method might result in disassociation.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 10, 2008 10:46PM

Continuing Education Module


'Fringe Psychotherapies: The Public at Risk' by Barry L. Beyerstein

[www.selfhelpfraud.com]

This article is on a website that has additional resources. Name of the site is Americans Against Fraudulent Self Help

[www.selfhelpfraud.com]

The entire Beyerstein article is great. It is excellent for persons who cannot easily get a copy of Lilienfeld, Lynn and Lohr's book Science and Pseudoscience in Clinical Psychology 2003.

Here are some excerpts from Dr. Beyerstein's article to whet our appetites. Dont stop here. Read the WHOLE thing.

Quoted Excerpts:


‘And with the growth of the “New Age” movement, the market has also been flooded by a growing cadre of therapists with little formal training but an immense investment in pop-psychology and “post modernist” psychobabble.

"In most jurisdicitions, these entrepreneurs cannot call themselves psychologists or psychiatrists because licensing statutes restrict these titles to professionals with specified credentials and training. They can however, offer their services (where local laws permit) by appropriating unreserved titles** such as counselor, psychotherapist, psychoanalyst, sex therapist, pastoral counselor, Dianetics auditor (one of several pseudonyms for Scientology), New Age guide, relationship advisor, mental therapist, etc.

**(Pop quiz: How many other 'unreserved titles' have we observed in use by persons using powerful methods without proper training, oversight or accountablity? C)


(p3) At the highest levels of the profession, the erosion of the likage between science and clinical practice was further aggravated in recent years when many research psychologists left the American Psychological Association (APA) to form the rival American Psychological Society. The defectors felt that the APA was undervaluing the scientific side of its mandate as it devoted more effort to lobbying and other professional issues primarily of concern to clinicians. Many also felt that the APA had been too timid in disciplining those of its members who engage in scientifically dubious practices. On several occasions, I have witnessed this reluctance to chastise peddlers of outlandish wares myself. My disappointments spring from fruitless attempts to get various psychological associations to rein in their members who charge clients for scientifically discredited services such as subliminal audiotapes, graphology (handwriting analysis), dubious psychological tests, bogus therapy techniques, and various so called ‘rejuvenation’ techniques for recovering supposedly repressed memories.

"I continue to be appalled to see journals of various psychological associations with advertisements for courses carrying official continuing education credits for therapists that promote this kind of pseudoscience.’

"Even if minimally-trained therapists can do some good, there remains the danger that they will divert clients from treatments that would help them more.

"More worrisome is the possibility that their limited knowledge will lead them to apply risky procedures than exacerbate existing conditions or even create serious problems of their own.

"When such malpractice occurs, these uncertified therapists have no professional associations and disciplinary boards to whom dissatisified customers can turn. It is when therapeutic fads emerge from a research vacuum and treatments lack proper outcome evaluations that these safety concerns arise. "



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2008 10:58PM by corboy.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Sedona Method
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 10, 2008 10:59PM

Quote
helpme2times
Hi chick,
I don't know if there's any direct connection between Byron Katie's approach and the Sedona Method. But there does seem to be an indirect connection, which you've pointed out... that the application of each method might result in disassociation.

I actually read a Sedona "book" a while back, but to be honest I don't recall one dang thing about it, other than there was basically nothing there.
There is a thread here...

Sedona Method and Release Technique
[forum.culteducation.com]

Carol Skilnick says...
"Many of the people I have met at Katie's schools practice The Work concurrently with Sedona Method, The Journey, A Course in Miracles and various forms of yoga and meditation."
[soulsurgery.blogspot.com]

(She also talks about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy - CBT,lets be clear, The Work and CBT have NOTHING in common, they actually conflict from top to bottom. Contrary to what Carol says above, The Work would be classified AS a Thinking Disorder!!)

But there does seem to be quite a bit of cross-over between them in terms of...demographics at least.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: chick ()
Date: March 11, 2008 12:12AM

Anticult
thanks for the stuff about the CBT stuff, when I went to the doctor I said I was concerned that I had been hypnotised and she said I should go back to the coach. But the thing was I never mentioned that I had been to see anyone and talked about CBT techniques.

I thought that what the Byron Katie stuff was about was pure confusion. you are right and could create a thinking disorder if you were not aware of it, She tried the double bind technique. therefore confusing both sides of the brain to end up with the victim staring into space

There is something going on up here and the doctors are part of it, they are injecting people with something to get them into the system.

I am aware that is DOES sound odd and probably will be seen that I am kooky

chick

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 11, 2008 02:56AM

chick:

Your posts about alleged cyber stalking, "electronic harassment" and mind control have not been approved.

This message board is not a place to post such conspiracy theories.

If you think you are being harassed see the local police or get a lawyer and obtain a protection order.

If the police and courts don't believe you, see your physician.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 11, 2008 03:36AM

Always great information from Corboy.
Truly disturbing that even some fringe psychologists are not reigned-in for dubious and bogus techniques, to make a fast buck, or a fast million. That REALLY sucks, there are SOME crooked and just bogus licensed psychologists out there, that is for sure. But there are lots of great ones too.

Just slightly less sucky, is the first point. Any of these correctly labeled...Entrepreneurs...can call themselves any of those fancy titles, and sound legit.

For example, in Byron Katie's The Work...

first off, her Volunteer Facilitators (usually deceptively called FACILITATORS) have literally nothing to do with BK at all, as stated in the Disclaimers. Anyone can post up there...one supposes even con-artists, or people promoting other agendas, Amway, MLM's, etc? Katie herself stated there is no oversight at all.
Its as if you post on Facebook, you are a Facebook Facilitator? How can they get away with this stuff?

Then Byron Katie has "Certified Facillitators".
Sounds pretty good. But what does it mean?
Nothing at all. Zippo. They just made it up. Its not a LICENSE, but it sounds like a good word to most people.
I could certify you in...Monkey Tossing...just pay me 10 grand, and I will give you the diploma from Kinkos, and you are a Certified Monkey Tosser.

You need a license to drive a taxi or sell hot-dogs.

But these folks can go out and use sophisticated techniques to mess with people's Minds, Identities, Souls...they are defacto doing "therapy" but can usually get away with it with legal loopholes.
...they are just "talking" right? Coaching? Facilitating?
They could call it anything...Non-Duality Coaching...

Why do you have to have a license to sell a hot dog, but not to screw with people's minds for $150 an hour?
Why can you go to jail for practicing medicine with no license, but not for heavy, emotional group-therapy, orone to one "therapy"?
I don't know what the answer is.

PS: there are even these guys running around calling themselves "Dr.s", and one assumes doing it legally? It should not be legal to call oneself a Dr. without a PhD from an accredited institution. That is a no-brainer...but alas...

How about "Dr." Joe Vitale? (you can buy all these for $100 total over the internet).
"He also holds a doctorate degree in Metaphysical Science and another doctorate degree in Marketing". "Besides being one of the five top marketing specialists in the world today, and the world’s first hypnotic writer, Joe is also an ordained minister, a certified metaphysical practitioner, a certified hypnotherapist, and a certified Chi Kung healer. He also holds a doctorate degree in Metaphysical Science."





Quote
corboy
‘And with the growth of the “New Age” movement, the market has also been flooded by a growing cadre of therapists with little formal training but an immense investment in pop-psychology and “post modernist” psychobabble.

"In most jurisdicitions, these entrepreneurs cannot call themselves psychologists or psychiatrists because licensing statutes restrict these titles to professionals with specified credentials and training. They can however, offer their services (where local laws permit) by appropriating unreserved titles** such as counselor, psychotherapist, psychoanalyst, sex therapist, pastoral counselor, Dianetics auditor (one of several pseudonyms for Scientology), New Age guide, relationship advisor, mental therapist, etc.

**(Pop quiz: How many other 'unreserved titles' have we observed in use by persons using powerful methods without proper training, oversight or accountablity? C)


(p3) At the highest levels of the profession, the erosion of the likage between science and clinical practice was further aggravated in recent years when many research psychologists left the American Psychological Association (APA) to form the rival American Psychological Society. The defectors felt that the APA was undervaluing the scientific side of its mandate as it devoted more effort to lobbying and other professional issues primarily of concern to clinicians. Many also felt that the APA had been too timid in disciplining those of its members who engage in scientifically dubious practices. On several occasions, I have witnessed this reluctance to chastise peddlers of outlandish wares myself. My disappointments spring from fruitless attempts to get various psychological associations to rein in their members who charge clients for scientifically discredited services such as subliminal audiotapes, graphology (handwriting analysis), dubious psychological tests, bogus therapy techniques, and various so called ‘rejuvenation’ techniques for recovering supposedly repressed memories.

"I continue to be appalled to see journals of various psychological associations with advertisements for courses carrying official continuing education credits for therapists that promote this kind of pseudoscience.’

"Even if minimally-trained therapists can do some good, there remains the danger that they will divert clients from treatments that would help them more.

"More worrisome is the possibility that their limited knowledge will lead them to apply risky procedures than exacerbate existing conditions or even create serious problems of their own.

"When such malpractice occurs, these uncertified therapists have no professional associations and disciplinary boards to whom dissatisified customers can turn. It is when therapeutic fads emerge from a research vacuum and treatments lack proper outcome evaluations that these safety concerns arise. "



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2008 03:47AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: chick ()
Date: March 11, 2008 04:05AM

Anticult the last post hits the spot straight away for me, could not have done that better myself.

Joe Vitale, he promotes the `Dr Len` and `Hoponopono` story which is mind control and can be found on the Huna/life coaching sites and is supposed to be about Psychic moments and criminal insanity patients. Alot of NLP companies here in the UK sell Huna courses as an advanced form of NLP.

I was treated by a woman who called herself a fascilitator? and did a course with Katie Byron apparently

What do you meany non duality coaching?

Is she part of a cult? that is Katie Byron, or is this part of Landmark or another destructive cult...?

Please explain LGAT for me as this term confuses me. You guys seem veterns of this. I am still learning some new stuff every day

chick

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 11, 2008 04:13AM

chick:

Last warning.

There is no objective proof that any cult is using "electronic" mind control anywhere as you have alleged.

And feeding into such paranoid, delusional thinking isn't helpful to you or anyone else here.

Such posts will not be approved.

If you want to discuss such conspiracy theories find another message board.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: chick ()
Date: March 11, 2008 04:20AM

rrmoderator

thank you for your warning. I am listening :o)

chick

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Ho'oponopono
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: March 11, 2008 07:06AM

Quote
chick
Anticult the last post hits the spot straight away for me, could not have done that better myself.

Joe Vitale, he promotes the `Dr Len` and `Hoponopono` story which is mind control and can be found on the Huna/life coaching sites and is supposed to be about Psychic moments and criminal insanity patients. Alot of NLP companies here in the UK sell Huna courses as an advanced form of NLP.
A year or so ago, "Dr." Joe Vitale wrote an immensely popular article that caused many to run out and take weekend courses in an "updated" version of a traditional Hawaiian healing ceremony known as Ho'oponopono.

This is the article that kicked off the Ho'oponopono craze:

"The World's Most Unusual Therapist"

Joe's article alleges that a practitioner of "updated" Ho'oponopono, Dr. Ihaleakala Hew Len, was able to miraculously cure an entire ward of criminally insane patients. Following the popularity of the article, Dr. Len and Joe Vitale co-authored a book about the process: Zero Limits: The Secret Hawaiian System for Wealth, Health, Peace, and More.

At least one source suggests that Dr. Len and Joe Vitale's version of Ho'oponopono is cult-y:

Is "Zero Limits" a Cult?

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