Quote
jj52

Quote
rrmoderator
To whom it may concern:

Please to be civil and reasonable.

There should be no need for anyone to leave due to a lack of civility.

Flaming and personal attacks are against the rules.

THANK YOU!

-jj

rr
I know this is a stupid question, but I don't remember - what is 'flaming'?

-Shad

Quote
jj52
[[b]The way you've responded to me does remind me a bit of how children behave. Children don't really listen, they just push and persuade and try to convince others to get their way, don't they?
[/b]

-jj

yep, that's pritty much what they do.
-Shad

Quote
jj52
And if you read my posts, I suggested that we all give some effort in responding to them more like rrmoderator, because I think his methods are more effective and make it safer and healthier for all concerned. Warn them--educate them what is expected in this forum-- and then if they ignore you, go ahead and slaughter them. I wonder how any one can reply to me when they so obviously have not even heard what I said!


-jj

I agree, i wish i was more like rrmoderator, but he has been at this a lot longer than i; i acknowledge i don't have his knowledge and/or skill, that is probably why he has not invited me to be a co-moderator here, lol!

However, that does not take away from what i do do well; it also does not mean that i am not allowed to express my opinion or sometimes get annoyed when people continue to do what they have been asked not to do.

I also disagree that people need to be "slaughtered" here on this forum or anywhere else. (it seems to me you are trying to put words in another's mouth, and no thanks, i can speak for myself jj.)

I HAVE heard what you have to say, so just because I let you know that I don't agree with everything you are posting here does not mean that i have not. You see, this is the problem with this form of communication. I think if we were sitting face to face, and you could hear the tone in my voice, and look at me directly, you would see me smile, or shed a tear when someone shares their pain, or nod in acknowledgement of what they are saying. Even as I disagree, you would see that I am NOT frowning, or expressing anger. But that is not the case, so ....what can one do?

For your own sake i hope you will continue to read this forum; if you choose not to contribute to the discussion that of course is up to you. I am certainly not going to either disuade or persuade you. I respect your right to do what is right for you.

regards,
Shad

Quote
vlinden
Part of the problem is that so many people are in different places regarding their involvement with these groups. Some are still very much involved, others are totally out and recovering, others have recently lost someone to a group and are seething in pain over that, others lost people long ago and are counseling the new folks with pure understanding.

It really is difficult to know sometimes when someone is still pretty brainwashed and unaware that they're spouting jargon, and when they're a manipulative troll sent by the guru to infiltrate with LGAT memes.

Again, if Jon Willis is not a troll, I hope he comes back ready to help with the purpose of the Board, which is not to defend BK or the Work. What is the point of doing that here?

Still and all, I don't personally think the threads should be broken up to reflect these different groups, because despite how hairy it might get at times, this board is generating incredibly powerful and important dialogues in part because of the conflict that can occur here.

well spoken vlinden,
regards,
Shad

Quote
The Anticult
Hi Everyone, including me!!

Lets remember this is very intense stuff. We are all learning each day. This is literally Thought-Reform, so it can get a bit crazy.
Lets all have a coffee and let things sink in.

We have seen all of this type of thing many times before in the forums..things can go a little sour..

But there is a way to problem-solve rationally.

For example, it could be this type of forum is more for those on the Outside, to stay out?

Maybe another thread, in the Former Members area, could be for former members who went to The School to discuss things? Of course the challenge there is some outsider perspective can be helpful too at times, or not.

Sadly, there is no easy solution to this type of thing. But clearly, former BK School attendees are in a different boat, than Outsiders, like any group.


One caution though, is that those who try to work with some coming out of BK, can lure one right back into BK, or any group. Those folks don't make 1.5 million bucks in a week for nothing, they know what they are doing.

There are no easy answers..but we can do the best we can...

hi Anticult,
i recall we went through this....was it August/September 07....can't remember the name of the person who would get so mad because we did not agree with everything he was saying, i think it was about Impact, .... anyway, a lot of misunderstanding and anger...and as usual, you handle yourself with decorum.

yes, you are right, there ARE no easy answers...and as you say, everyone is going through their own thing at differing stages, but in spite of this i have seen people learn and grow through this. You will recall what a nervous parionoid wreck i was when i first signed on in ...was it July or August? ...anyway, i know that i have a lot to learn, but i do believe that we learn from and help each other...

sorry, but could you explaine what you mean by: "it could be that this type of forum is more for those on the Outside, to stay out?" - i don't know if i am just tired but i am not at all sure what you are expressing here.

regards,
Shad

Quote
helpme2times

Quote
vlinden
I did wonder for moment about Jon Willis contacting JJ privately and saying things to her that seemed different from what he said on this thread. Unless I'm mistaken, I just don't remember him saying anything that seemed he was looking for answers or having problems with BK. But I also don't know exactly what he said to her because she didn't feel comfortable sharing it.

It sure did seem that he had absolutely no problem with Byron Katie when he posted, but presented himself differently to JJ in private. Tres suspicious to me.

yep, initially i did not feel comfortable with his posts...it just seemed to me that he was making somewhat provacative statements and i felt "baited"

regards,
Shad

far be it for me to tell anyone what to say or think...but just for anyone new or old dropping into the thread...

we seem to have had a thread meltdown, which is not uncommon, it happens.
Words get misinterpreted, dealing with very heavy and complex issues, and its not easy for anyone.

So instead of turning within, and starting to have a go at eachother, I would vote to keep the thread focussed on our Guru of Love, Byron Katie...

There is still a lot of information to be discovered about her, and her operations.

For example, at some point perhaps some hard evidence will come out about her early life around 1986. If this evidence conflicts with her "story", the LA Times would have a serious interest in that information, and run another story on her "story".
Just send the information to the same writer, who was clearly not really buying Byron Katie and her family's "story".
www.culteducation.com/reference/general/general853.html

That could open things wide up.

So I would vote to all try to stay focussed on Byron Katie as much as possible, and cut each other lots of slack, and give eachother the benefit of the doubt, and START FRESH, if possible.

There is a lot of good information in these threads, and some possibly important information about various "claims" that appear to have been made by Byron Katie about the alleged psychological benefits of her work?

If so, that can be reported to the authorities by concerned citizens, and they will determine the outcome, which from reports in the media, can be extremely serious.

Claims of benefits of The Work, that change?
[forum.culteducation.com]

General information about how to make a complaint
[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
The Anticult
far be it for me to tell anyone what to say or think...but just for anyone new or old dropping into the thread...

we seem to have had a thread meltdown, which is not uncommon, it happens.
Words get misinterpreted, dealing with very heavy and complex issues, and its not easy for anyone.

So instead of turning within, and starting to have a go at eachother, I would vote to keep the thread focussed on our Guru of Love, Byron Katie...

There is still a lot of information to be discovered about her, and her operations.

For example, at some point perhaps some hard evidence will come out about her early life around 1986. If this evidence conflicts with her "story", the LA Times would have a serious interest in that information, and run another story on her "story".
Just send the information to the same writer, who was clearly not really buying Byron Katie and her family's "story".
www.culteducation.com/reference/general/general853.html

That could open things wide up.

So I would vote to all try to stay focussed on Byron Katie as much as possible, and cut each other lots of slack, and give eachother the benefit of the doubt, and START FRESH, if possible.

There is a lot of good information in these threads, and some possibly important information about various "claims" that appear to have been made by Byron Katie about the alleged psychological benefits of her work?

If so, that can be reported to the authorities by concerned citizens, and they will determine the outcome, which from reports in the media, can be extremely serious.

Claims of benefits of The Work, that change?
[forum.culteducation.com]

General information about how to make a complaint
[forum.culteducation.com]

ok, i'm in favour of that, and so, as it is 12:03 [past midnight] - i will say good night to all and start "fresh" in the morning.

regards,
Shad

Quote
The Shadow
sorry, but could you explaine what you mean by: "it could be that this type of forum is more for those on the Outside, to stay out?"

What it means is that the only meaning, of meaning, is that meaning has no meaning, other than the meaning you give it.
That will be $100K..thx...

kidding!
I was saying maybe these threads ARE way too intense and blunt for Insiders of a group like Byron Katie to deal with? Most of them would tune out, as its too much, too soon, too loud, too harsh, too blunt...etc
So maybe these threads MIGHT help those who are NOT in yet, just get a warning like...

WARNING: BYRON KATIE APPEARS TO BE PRACTICING COVERT HYPNOSIS ON YOU WITHOUT YOUR AWARENESS.

If she had that sticker on her CD, would it sell? No way. That's all it takes, that is why they HIDE it.

But for BK Insiders, who have a few secret doubts, maybe a forum for Ex-BK people might be better? Only they know what they went through at the hands of Dr Katiestein...Mass Hypnotist...

But who knows how people get out of these things...one supposes each person is different.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2008 04:10PM by The Anticult.

Quote
The Anticult

Quote
The Shadow
sorry, but could you explaine what you mean by: "it could be that this type of forum is more for those on the Outside, to stay out?"

What it means is that the only meaning, of meaning, is that it has meaning has no meaning, other than the meaning you give it.
That will be $100K..thx...

kidding!
I was saying maybe these threads ARE way too intense and blunt for Insiders of a group like Byron Katie to deal with? Most of them would tune out, as its too much, too soon, too loud, too harsh, too blunt...etc
So maybe these threads MIGHT help those who are NOT in yet, just get a warning like...

WARNING: BYRON KATIE APPEARS TO BE PRACTICING COVERT HYPNOSIS ON YOU WITHOUT YOUR AWARENESS.

If she had that sticker on her CD, would it sell? No way. That's all it takes, that is why they HIDE it.

But for BK Insiders, who have a few secret doubts, maybe a forum for Ex-BK people might be better? Only they know what they went through at the hands of Dr Katiestein...Mass Hypnotist...

But who knows how people get out of these things...one supposes each person is different.

whoooo, you really had me going there for a minute!!!!!! -- LOL --

but yeah, i see what you mean now, and that makes sense; yes, perhaps Ex-Bk people could speak with each other with one moderator who is trained in working with ex-cult members...i think you make a good point here.

but now I really really REALLY must go to bed!
regards,
Shad