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Richard S. Epstein M.D on the need for therapist anonymity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 15, 2008 10:12PM

Continuing Education Module--Therapist Anonymity

Psychiatrist Richard S. Epstein, in his book Keeping Boundaries: Maintaining Safetly and Integrity in the Psychotherapeutic Process (1994), has a chapter on the need for therapist confidentiality in the role of boundary maintainance--'Maintaining Anonymity'--Chapter 11.

In the first subsection entitled 'Guiding Principles Regarding Personal Disclosures'
Epstein writes:

'Since the therapist is not a disembodied spirit, communicating from out of the void directly into the patient's ear, it is impossible for him or her to be perfectly "opaque." Opacity is not an end in itself.

'The purpose for restraining personal revealation is to maintain a single-minded and strictly professional focus on teh patient's problems. It is a method to avoid being side-tracked. Flooding patients with gratuitious information serves to rivet attention on the therapist's personal life and detracts from the purpose of the treatment.

'Therapists who are able to refrain from revealing unnecessary personal information communicate the following message to their patients:

This treatment is for you, not for me. I am not going to burden you with my personal needs and life interests, because you are not here to take care of me. I am going to resist any temptation to let my own worries sidetrack us from working on your problems.' (pages 198-199)


There are indicated forms of therapist self disclosure.

Epstein recommends how a therapist should discuss his or her illnesses--if these have any potential for disrupting sessions with patients:

* Says Epstein, "If a therapist has a serious illness that might cause a temporary or permanent interruption of treatment, the patietn should be given enough information to allow him or her to deal with the realistic impact on the treatment---and provide for transfer of care (referral to another therapist) if necessary.'

'Even a dying therapist has a responsibility to maintain a professional posture with his or her patients. For example, a therapist with terminal cancer shoudl inform patients that he or she has a fatal disease that is probably incurable. A brief statement of the diagnosis and prognosis is reasonable to help orient the patient to reality and the probability of outcome. It gives the patient an opportunity to grive the loss and enlist the therapists help in saying good bye."

'Excessive detail about the nature of the therapist's disease and treatment probably places an unnecessary burden on the patient." (Epstein, pp 198-99)

(In other words the news of the illness is used to assist patients to let go and find new social support resources, not be further drawn into or obsessed with the dying or ailing therapist--C)

In the section 'Relatively Risky Forms of Self-Disclosure, Epstein wrote, 'Informing patients about minor details of one's personal life, particularly if the purpose is to impress patients, manipulate their behavior, or gain sympathy. ....Inappropriate personal disclosure may endanger the integrity of the treatment because it is a signal to the patient that the therapist is interested in reversing roles (that is, getting the patient to become a caregiver--C), is departing from the strictly professional stance of caregiver, or has problems with self restraint.'

In the subsection Counterindicated Forms of Self-Disclosure, Epstein wrote: 'Making repeated disclosures about one's family relationships marital problems, personal worries, and psychological conflicts.'

(Epstein, page 200)

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Re: Richard S. Epstein M.D on the need for therapist anonymity
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: March 16, 2008 12:01AM

This all reminds me of my own experience with a naturopath who told me basically his life story. With what I know now, I know he was projecting his issues onto me and trying to fix himself. He used his story as a means of showing "empathy", so I would see that he understood what I was going through (this all based on a misdiagnosis made by him). I heard it all - how he was dumped in a strict boarding school in Europe where he didn't know the language, how he was left alone, how he had been in a mysterious coma for two weeks, on and on. The gist of it all this was to teach me how we become control freaks, and since he knew how being a control freak didn't work, he wanted me to give up all control to him so I too could experience the sense of freedom he now has. That it what it is all about - giving it up to them because they are superior. When I refused, there was a lot of talk about me wanting to be a victim, and then personal attacks, a little bit of martyrdom thrown in to attempt a guilt trip, and finally some screamin' verbal abuse and accusations of me slandering him. It is really all formulaic, for individuals running an LGAT like BK and WE are, or wannabes like my naturopath (who was up to his neck in Landmark).

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Re: Byron Katie, Loving What Is: (treating trauma without a license?)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 16, 2008 12:47AM

I forgot to mention a couple of things from the book,"Loving What Is" by Byron Katie.

She also does some diabolical "preframes" about her alleged "transcripts".
Byron Katie says some parts of her in the transcripts might appear...

COLD, UNCARING, UNLOVING and UNKIND, and she tells you to ignore that, its for their own good.

See what she is doing there?
She is Grooming you.

It reminds one of Michael Jackson on Oprah saying...hey its normal and good for a 45 year old man to have 10 year old boys in his bed...its a loving act.
That is called GROOMING.

Same thing with Byron Katie. She is telling you, yet again...IGNORE YOUR INSTINCTS. Ignore your instincts that Katie looks like a COLD, UNCARING, UNLOVING and UNKIND sociopath.
Interesting how so many of Katies "clients" are former childhood sexual abuse survivors, who were possibly groomed in the same way as children?
So Katie is telling you, hey, I may appear to be behaving in a socipathic manner to my clients, but just IGNORE YOUR INSTINCTS and TRUST ME.

She literally does this constantly, in all her materials so far.

Well the truth is the opposite, you have to TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. When someone is trying to rob you, or mind-rape you, trust your instincts, and just get the hell out of there, and don't listen to their confusing double-talk.




Quote
The Anticult
Going through the book,

Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life, by Byron Katie (Author), Stephen Mitchell (Author)

Its very unfortunate people seem to be quite easily taken in by systems like this.
The book begins with Stephen Mitchell repeating the "Story" from 1986. Why is Mitchell telling this Story? Was he there? Can he verify what happened? Why are no facts given? Zero facts.

This book is basically Byron Katie "Lite". That is, its the first process of seduction and grooming into her Katie-Universe. She starts with claiming she had her Enlightenment experience in 1986.
NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF. Zero. Just a "Story". No facts at all.

She also presents what she is doing as some type of psychological method and theory, but doesn't anyone or any journalist or reviewer ask any real questions? The woman has...

- ZERO proof of her stories from her past.
- ZERO scientific studies done to back up her outrageous claims.
- ZERO credentials, education, or licensing.
- ZERO facts in the entire book, just anecdotes.
- ZERO references to any other psychological literature.
- ZERO references to NLP and hypnosis, which is what she does.
- ZERO bibliography

(she does all that totally consciously, as it means she can't get busted as easily!! Just make up vague stories, and that way everything is vague, and it makes for better hypnosis too)

Preframe:
She then does some Preframes about being "passive" and accepting the powerful Wind, like she did. Guess who is the "wind"? (Katie is A Mighty Wind that is coming to blow you away, and that is a pre-frame to be PASSIVE and ACCEPT it).

Stories: (hypnosis)
She then says that our Stories are just bogus Stories, and then tells a bunch of HYPNOTIC STORIES as if they are true. Its so blatant, its amazing people seem to just buy it.

4 Questions:
She presents them as if they are some type of valid psychological system.
The bottom line is that the Turnaround is simpy distorted thinking, its called Polarized Thinking, and that is not healthy. Cognitive Therapy is completely different to the 4 Questions, as CT is about ACCURATE thinking. The Work is about creating Polarized Thinking that is SELF-BLAMING for everything that happens.
The Turnaround amounts to...YOU ARE TO BLAME FOR EVERYTHING. (that will create guilt and depression in the subjects).
So the 4 Questions are basically just a mental confidence-trick, to get a wedge into your mind, so then she can lure you into her world, one step at a time.

She then programs you to start doing her Worksheets, which will just lure you in deeper, day after day. Since the Turnaround will make you MORE depressed and MORE guilt-ridden..guess what? Then you need some FACILITATION from The Work people, who then soft-sell the 9-Day School to you, more books, DVD's, etc.

Nice upselling sales model, works well. Create more PAIN in the customer and then offer to HEAL their PAIN, and then create more pain.
Sales 101, and customers keep coming back for more.


TRANSCRIPTS: the alleged transcripts are just light-Trance Inductions she is using, doing the "Internalization of Voices" technique. It also works for Katie to distract the conscious mind of the reader with the Stories, while getting her Grooming done inside the stories, to slowly begin to shape your perceptions. These are the same methods used by the NLP guys in their books, like Bandler, and many others, to use "transcripts" as a way to do Inductions on people reading the book.
Very common technique.

Byron Katies kids:
Katies children Ross Robinson, and Roxann Burroughs, are mentioned in the book as being deeply involved with The Work, and obviously have a conflict of interest, and thus are not objective sources of information! So "journalists" should realize asking them for information is not credible.

Totalism:
Later in the book, Katie starts playing some hardball. She gets into the Underlying Beliefs. (watch out folks!).
She then sets out that The Work is a TOTALIST system, meant for your entire life. Marriage, couples, sex, work, money, family, self, kids, body, addictions. So that is where the totalist Thought Reform starts coming into play. Its meant to take over your ENTIRE LIFE.


Then, the uneducated, unlicensed Byron Katie starts getting into...

Trauma, rape, incest, cancer, death...
As far as incest and rape, she says she has dealt with HUNDREDS of women as of 2002 who had that happen to them.

(How can it even be legal for some person like Byron Katie with ZERO education or credentials AT ALL, to start "treating" people for rape and incest and trauma? How can that even be legal?
Don't people realize how dangerous it is to let some uneducated and untrained person mess around with you, and do their "experiments" on you?
What is going to happen to people who might get flipped into Traumatic flashbacks, and commit suicide or homicide after being mistreated by an unlicensed person who has no idea of what they are doing and no accountability?)

Its on par with going to an unlicensed plastic surgeon cutting people up in Mexico, who disfigure people for the rest of their lives, or worse.
Going to see Byron Katie for trauma, incest, child abuse, rape, is similar as going to get plastic surgery done by some unlicensed fake plastic surgeon in Mexico, who could disfigure you for life, and even end it.


Byron Katie then gets into some serious waking hypnosis later in the book, using False-Choice embedded commands to your unconscious.
here is an example.
---------------------------
page 244;
"Do all beliefs need to be undone?
...If your internal world is free and wonderful, why would you want to change it? If the dream is a happy one, who would want to wake up? And if your dreams aren't happy, welcome to The Work".
------------------------------
Notice in that one tiny area, she talks about UNDOING ALL YOUR BELIEFS. DREAM, WAKE-UP, etc.
That is all straight up hypnosis.
She is saying if you are not perfectly happy, then WELCOME TO THE WORK. That is an embedded command, right out of NLP.
See how it works? She says, if you are perfectly happy living in a Dreamworld, then stay asleep. Of course no human is happy like that, its impossible. So then you are FORCED into the next sentence...which says...IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WELCOME TO THE WORK.
That is the command to the unconscious. She wrote that self-consciously...its a trick sentence.


So this is the wonderful Byron Katie.
Everything is a fabricated "Story", zero facts, zero evidence.
Supremely manipulative, using NLP and covert hypnosis, deception, and Love-Bombing, all the while claiming innocence.
Its very unfortunate something such blatant deception fools so many. We need much more education in critical thinking in our society.

Where are the journalists? Would they allow anyone else to just make up Stories, and try to pass them off as "facts"? Its time for them to investigate what is really going on here. Wake up and smell the coffee, as they say. Step out of the hypnotic dreamworld of Byron Katie, and wake up to the techniques behind what is being done to people.
the founders of NLP, Bandler and Grinder, wrote some books called "The Structure Of Magic",and many others. A large part of what Byron Katie is doing stems from that research into hypnotic language patterns and its effects on persuasion.
Are some journalists and writers goint to look into this and help people understand what is being done to them without their awareness or consent?









__(item reference)_________
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life
by Byron Katie (Author), Stephen Mitchell (Author)
ISBN-10: 1400045371

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Re: Byron Katie, Loving What Is: (treating trauma without a license?)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 16, 2008 01:10AM

Cognitive therapy has shown very clearly, that too much self-blame, creates too much guilt.
It has also proven for decades, that too much self-blame and self-downing creates and magnifies depression.

So with the fraud of Byron Katies The Work, no matter what happens, you take 100% self-blame, and direct it all back at yourself.
Guess what?
That is going to literally send you into a deeper guilt spiral, and shame spiral, and depression cycle.
And the deeper you go, the WORSE it gets. Then you do more, and it gets WORSE.

Katie knows this. That is why its so sick.

As far as guilt, there are proper exercises in Mind Over Mood that make a "Guilt-Pie", where you assign proper guilt to things! So instead of 100% guilt or 0% guilt, maybe you get 20%. You see, that's called mental health. Katie knows most women are too damn guilty all the time anyway for no reason, and she gives them MORE guilt.

Or the way to combat depression cognitively, is to STOP with the terrible self-downing people do. You take responsibility for your behavior, but its not 100% self-blame for everything.
And the fraud called the Turnaround by Byron Katie, will MAGNIFY your depression!

But that is great for Katie, as people go to YouTube and watch the Byron Katie Mindwashing videos and get hypnotized, and get into the untrained Katie facilitators, etc. They suck you in, one step at a time.

Pain = Profits.

So lets say a person got sucked into Byron Katie all the way. You go to the LGAT School, you give Byron Katie your wedding ring as she inserts herself between you are your husband. Then you divorced, and get hypnotized into giving Katie all of your money as a gift". So there you are afew years later, divorced, broke, and working for Katie for free 24/7 to get more people into it. Guess what?

You get the thought one morning..."Byron Katie has hypnotized me and scammed me for all of my money, and wrecked my life!!".
Then you do a Turnaround and guess what?
You blame yourself 100%,and get more depressed, and walk away. Most people who walk away from this junk OVER-BLAME THEMSELVES.

But you should NOT blame yourself 100%.
Katie is using the most complex techniques of mass persuasion on the planet. So yes, accept some blame for getting conned...maybe 10% if you have never had any knowledge of these techniques before, and are a decent normal person, who could not have known what she was doing.
But 90% of the blame is going to the Master Hypnotist Katie, who has Targeted people who don't know about her techniques. She has gone after mostly women, with serious pain and trauma, those are her targets.

Put Katie in a room of trained NLP hypnotists, and they would giggle at first, and think she was joking around doing a parody of a sociopath. Then once they realized she was SERIOUS, and was abusing the techniques on regular everyday people, and TAKING THEIR WEDDING RINGS, the NLP people might start vomiting from disgust.
Except for perhaps, guys like Stever Robbins, who see what is going on, but wants a piece of the action?

All its going to take is a serious investigative reporter to expose what has gone on with this, like 48 Hours, or 60 Minutes. They will dig up what happened in 1986, and since then.




Quote
helpme2times
Thank you so much, Anticult.

As someone who got sucked into the black hole of "The Work of Byron Katie", I think that you've given us an EXCELLENT overview of WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON.

I totally relate to what you said about the Turnarounds ending up causing guilt and depression... and then, as you say, "guess what? Then you need some FACILITATION from The Work people, who then soft-sell the 9-Day School to you, more books, DVD's, etc."

That is totally what happened for me.

I ended up having a bunch of sessions with a facilitator, as well as reading the books and watching the You Tube videos over and over. That's because I had high hopes that I'd be able to heal myself the way BK claimed she had.

In the beginning, I had gotten high on the promise that I could "end" my suffering. Also, asking myself the 4 questions had seemed to work - AT FIRST! But over time as I kept doing the work, I found that I was feeling WORSE than before I had started.

Unfortunately I tried to ignore feeling worse and would dive back into the work over and over. Thank goodness I finally had the presence of mind to search the internet for possible reports of people having problems with the work, and I'll be forever grateful to JJ and a few others (so far), who have dared to speak up on this message board about the harmfulness of BK's approach.

I really hope others will come forth to share their experiences. People need to know as much as they can about "the work" so that they can make INFORMED CHOICES. I definitely feel that I've been conned and hurt by the work. I'm just glad that I didn't get involved with it for more than the several months I did. I can only imagine what it might be like to have been into it for years.

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Byron Katie, Loving What Is: (treating trauma?) Stever Robbins
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 16, 2008 01:26AM

one other ridiculous thing the Byron Katie people do, which shows how obvious they are is they always say something like...

The Work is freely given.

Notice the deceptive double-speak strategy behind that?

Its like a fisherman saying... "the bait on my hook is Freely Given to the fishes".


Byron Katie is putting all that stuff out there as BAIT, and a HOOK, to grab you.
They then lure you in one step at a time, and the 9 Day School ain't the end, that's the beginning.
What about all the private Parlor Parties with Katie?
What about the private deathbead visits? (are complete Estates being "donated"?)
What's going on in the inner circle?

Sure, you are going to freely give Byron Katie your wedding rings, and jewellery too, maybe. (what happens to all that loot? Is is taken through the laundromat hypnosis machine too?)

for those who have watched this stuff for a long time, and have seen a lot of abuses with NLP hypnosis, this takes the cake. It not only takes the wedding cake, it takes the WEDDING RING.
Think of the symbolism. How much worse could it get than that?
Most of the worst abusers of NLP hypnosis would never go THAT far.

But Stever Robbins seems to think its all good business? ...wait until all the NLP folks here about the gory details on this one...

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Byron Katie, Stever Robbins, NLP, Ericksonian Hypnosis
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 16, 2008 01:49AM

Jut what is the connection between Stever Robbins and Byron Katie?

After all, by his own admission...

"Stever has been involved in NLP since 1978. He is a Certified Master Trainer Elite of NLP, and was the original creator and maintainer of the web’s largest NLP site, [www.nlpschedule.com] (formerly nlp.com). He can often be found assisting at Richard Bandler and John LaValle’s Charisma Enhancement program...".

So Stever Robbins is in tight with Richard Bandler, who is one of the main people who wrote about Ericksonian Hypnotherapy and hypnosis, and the fusion with NLP.

So is that where Byron Katie learned this stuff? From Stever Robbins? Or maybe Byron Katie taught Stever Robbins a thing or two?

Doesn't it look really bad that Byron Katie pretends she learned all of these techniques from a hypnotic cockroach, when in fact she is in tight with NLPer Stever Robbins?

Stever Robbins even reviews Byron Katies book on Amazon.com, but "forgets" to mention that Byron Katie is doing advanced NLP and Erickonsian influenced hypnosis on her subjects? Whoops!!

***** (5 Stars!) Striking insight into the mind of a woman who lives beyond attachment, September 4, 2007 By Stever Robbins
[www.amazon.com]

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Byron Katie, A Thousand Names For Joy, POST-HYPNOTIC SUGGESTIONS
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 20, 2008 09:32PM

Going through the book version of "A Thousand Names for Joy" by Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell.

The very last page of the book is full of embedded linguistic unconscious and conscious COMMANDS, which look like a normal text. But they are written as strong commands to the Unconscious, they are literally post-hypnotic suggestions, and they outline the basic PROCESS of Grooming Katie is putting you through, and wants to program DEEP into you. After you have read the book, and are primed and juiced-up, then she puts in the strong POST-HYPNOTIC SUGGESTIONS, which is the exact same thing every hypnotist does at the end of the session.

Here is the list:
(notice each one is a VERB and a verbal COMMAND to the unconscious to do a specific BEHAVIOR, almost like you are a computer, and this is your Katie-Program) (not almost, that is what it is).
- VISIT thework.com and change your life
- LEARN more about the work.
- DOWNLOAD audio and VIDEO clips...
- PRINT OUT worksheets for DAILY USE
- ESTABLISH a DAILY practice on the NetWork, FIND a facilitator, CALL the FREE hotline.
- SEE Katie's schedule of events
- JOIN Katies parlor.
- FIND OUT about the 9-Day Mindwashing LGAT called The School
- VISIT the store for books, CD's DVD's, and more mind-rape.

That is the basic process Katie wants to Groom you through. Book, website, read, mindwashing videos, daily programming sheets, daily persuasion from Mindwashed Katie members, think about spending $5,000, join Katie's creepy parlor, get out those credit cards and get the credit limit jacked-up, buy buy buy, etc. (think about all the images-stories when Byron Katie talks about ROBBERY at the end of a hypnotic-gun, and how you are supposed to ENJOY it).


The intro of this book does display how Stephen Mitchell also has no problem fabricating anything he wants, and is also into Programming you. His most blatant Whopper is when he says Byron Katie had never heard of the Tao Te Ching before they met!!!!
This is what they call in Sales 101 the Credulity Test. (or more commonly called the Sucker-Test). They drop an obviously false statement out there, and if the subject believes that, then you know they will believe ANYTHING.

This is also known as The Big Lie, they know if you are going to tell a Whopper, better to go BIG, then people are more likely to believe it, as they can't imagine people would tell such obvious fabrications so openly.

Stephen Mitchell then tries to Program you, by saying...a person who was in EMOTIONAL TROUBLE, what SAVED HIM was reading Stephen Mitchell's version of the Tao Te Ching cover to cover, notes included, EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A WHOLE YEAR.
Not only are you to go a buy his book, he wants you to read it everyday for a year. The Byron Katie people know all about brain-programming, that is for certain. Do that for a year, and Katie and Steve have you for LIFE.

Then there are 81 Chapters of the book, each one a little STORY. So I hope by now everyone can easily see that each chapter is a STORY, which means it is a little HYPNPOTIC INDUCTION STORY, of the Ericksonian tradition. Its all there in the text, and explained earlier in this thread. These are designed carefully to PERSUADE you and GROOM you, to surrender and come over to the Dark Side...and follow Darth Katie...

Example: (Chapter 72, pg 239)
- Katie does a very tricky little chapter-story-Induction about Jesus and Christians. She says if Jesus walked into the room, people would FALL AT HIS FEET AND WORSHIP HIM. (like some now do with Katie). Then she lists all the things people would find wrong with Jesus, which actually sound like all the things wrong with Byron Katie, including saying he is a FRAUD and DANGEROUS. Her conclusion is you have to REVERE your "spiritual teacher" completely no matter what. Anything you find wrong with The Master, is something that is unhealed in YOU and projected on The Master. The monster, the terrorist, the child molestor are all forms of Jesus. (she said it!)
(Conclusion: any problem you find with Byron Katie, Darth Katie says is a problem with YOU.)

Byron Katie says...."until you can meet your worst enemy without defense or justification"...

One hopes people can see how utterly dangerous and perverse this is in the case of Byron Katie. She is LITERALLY trying to get you to shut-down your normal healthy psychological boundaries, and let her do anything she wants to you. This part is old-fashioned cult Revered Guru Abuse 101. The Guru is always right, you are always wrong, anything you see wrong in the Guru is something wrong with you, let down all your psychological defences. This is extremely dangerous stuff, for those who are vulnerable.


Katie then explains The Worksheet and Turnaround.
The first 4 questions are basic...it amounts to....DETACH from your thoughts.

But the DEVIL is in the Turnaround.
This is where you Turn your thoughts back ON YOURSELF. YOU WRITE IT AS IF ITS ABOUT YOU. This is designed to create Self-Blame, guilt, and will create Depression.
Or, she says you can do 180 degree polarized thinking, which is also DESTRUCTIVE. The Turnaround is the real devil in the details.

So if you think..."Byron Katie is trying to brainwash me", then you have to do a Turnaround to..."I am trying to brainwash Byron Katie", or "Byron Katie is not trying to brainwash me".
So YOU CAN'T WIN. Katie rigged the game against you. No matter what happens, its YOUR FAULT, and Darth Katie is blameless. You can't win, if you buy into it.
The Four Questions and a Turnaround is a classic Catch-22. (more on Catch-22 later).

Darth Katie then says its NOT about guilt or self-blame! hahaha! This woman says the opposite to the facts and truth almost every time. One can think of dozens of things she is doing, which she says she isn't doing. Whatever she is doing, she says she is not doing.

Conclusion: Whenever Darth Katie says she is NOT doing something, in reality that is most likely exactly what she is doing.
The Turnaround is highly destructive, designed to make certain Katie is blameless, and everything is 100% your fault, and thus creates more guilt, self-blame and depression.
That PAIN will lure and groom you deeper into Katies dark world, as outlined above in her Programming list.

Darth Katie...A Thousand Types of Deception.
Four Questions and a Catch-22.















------reference--------------------
A Thousand Names for Joy: Living in Harmony with the Way Things Are (Hardcover)
by Byron Katie (Author), Stephen Mitchell (Author)
Product Details
Hardcover: 304 pages
Publisher: Harmony (February 6, 2007)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0307339238

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 20, 2008 10:44PM

Here is a possible example from the life of a guru named Da Free John (currently Adi Da Samiraj) of how the salesman's 'credibility test' as described by AntiCult might have been applied in a social setting. The social setting was not tightly scripted, as is the case for an LGAT, but was a residential community ('Persimmon') where priviliged members were invited to work and enjoy closer contact with the leader of the group. An invitation to this country retreat was an honor. Lower ranking or new members worked in the city, supporting the groups various urban outreach projects.

The episode described below involved a group of persons who had already won a certain degree of crediblity, as far as the leader was concerned. The incident reportedly took place during the comparatively naive 1970s/very early 80s and may have been a bit of adroit social engineering to identify and retain people who are already True Believers, and identify and eventually eject those who were incurably skeptical and not likely to remain validating and pleasant company for a leader who was developing pretensions to become not merely a teacher but a God Man, supreme avatar.

From 'The Strange Case of Paul Franklin Jones' by Scott Lowe

[www.lightgate.net]

'While establishing his status as an avatar, Da Free John claimed to produce a number of miracles. Most of these "miracles" slipped right by me, unnoticed, but one in particular was especially baffling; since it may have led to my expulsion, I will explain it as best I can.

One Saturday, after an exuberant night of partying and laughter, we passed the day in some sort of celebration, at least I do not remember doing my usual work. The entire community enjoyed the well-earned break, wandering around outdors....

Several days later, the community was buzzing with increasingly dramatic tales of the astronomical marvels Da Free John had wrought on that lazy afternoon. Apparently, among other things, the guru had caused the sun to be ringed by a bright purple corona that had been clearly visible for many hours.[36]

Devotees vied to describe the miracle in increasingly dramatic terms. Now here is where things get truly puzzling. I had been outdoors all that afternoon.

' Not only had I seen nothing out of the ordinary, but no one within my earshot had mentioned anything at all about the miracle at the very time it was supposedly happening! I was not trying to be difficult or obtuse, but this proved too much for me. If a great miracle had occurred, why was it not mentioned at the time?

'I asked a number of devotees what they had seen and why they had not called everyone's attention to it, but received no satisfactory answers.

'It slowly emerged that I was not alone in missing this miracle; my skeptical cohorts on the community's fringe were similarly in the dark.

'Within several days, we were drawn aside, individually, for somber* meetings with the ashram authorities in which we were told that it had been a mistake to accept us into the community without testing; we were welcome to remain as probationary members of the Dawn Horse Communion, but it was unclear when, if ever, we would merit another visit to Persimmon.

*(Wonder what happened these individuals during these 'somber meetings. Was shame instilled? Note that the skeptics were not told as a group that they were to leave, but were summoned as individuals, hinting that they were alone, put through the rejection process alone--which cannot have been pleasant.C)

Several of the skeptics blamed themselves for their lack of spirituality and accepted their punishment. (my underlineingC-)

( Lowe's use of the word 'somber' and that they were summoned individually , does suggest that there was a shaming dimension to this rejection process. But Lowe apparently found he had a companion in his skepticism--and in his rejection from DFJ's community as well. So, without his saying so, Lowe appears to have found some actual companionship via his rejection and ejection from the DFJ group. Unfortunately not everyone is so fortunate--which is why so very many freely choose to visit and correspond via the RR.com message board--and why we salute Zenon and the RR.com IT department in their efforts to keep the board up and running. C)

Lowe wrote: 'My Canadian roommate and I said farewell to the West Coast and were soon sharing a delirious thirty hour nonstop drive across the U.S. with two Native Americans we had met through a Haight-Ashbury ride-board.

'This was the end of my brief involvement with Da Free John, though I kept up with his writings until his word use and capitalization became intolerably idiosyncratic.[37]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2008 10:48PM by corboy.

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Byron Katie (the Work) = Catch-22
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 20, 2008 11:49PM

Here is a test.
There will be a test.

Once a person really BUY$ into The Work of Byron Katie, even just the Four Questions and a Turnaround, it becomes literally IMPOSSIBLE to criticize or find fault with Byron Katie, or The Work.

Its a classic CATCH-22.

You are locked-in.
As no matter what fault you find with Darth Katie or The (alleged) Work, you have to do a Turnaround that invalidates it, and blames you.
Now there is only one exception, but its not an exception, as it does not apply, so there are no exceptions. If you have a POSITIVE or even a neutral thought about Byron Katie or The Work, or anything else, then you can just leave that alone. (she put that in as those thoughts are useful...to her...).

Its just if you have a serious negative or critical thought about Byron Katie, or the internationally famous Steverino Mitchell, or The Work, or about where all your CASH is going-going-gone, then you must do a Turnaround on it, detach from it, and put it back on yourself.
You are caught in a mental trap, and you can't get out, if you stay in, as The System is totalist.

In the novel Catch-22, you are stuck in the army, and you can't get out, no matter what you say or do, if you say your are insane, that proves you are sane. No escape.
In the Byron Katie Catch-22, you are stuck in the Byron Katie system, and you can't get out either, if you follow The Work. The Work will not set you free, it keeps you locked-in.

Its interesting how the novel Catch-22 was about sanity and insanity and being trapped in a dangerous situation where you cannot escape, and these are the exact same terms constantly used by Byron Katie like...INSANE. She uses that word very powerfully as an NLP Anchor over and over.
Another inside-joke?

Byron Katie (The Work) is a Catch-22.

Try to use The Work prove it is not.



_______________________
CATCH-22
"a no-win situation" or "a double bind" of any type... self-contradictory circular logic"
[en.wikipedia.org])


[dictionary.reference.com]
Catch-22:
- Figuratively, a “catch-22” is any absurd arrangement that puts a person in a double bind:
- any illogical or paradoxical problem or situation; dilemma.
- A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions:
- A situation or predicament characterized by absurdity or senselessness.



Or search words like...

Catch-22 explained
Catch-22 dictionary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2008 11:52PM by The Anticult.

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Byron Katie-Your Inner Awakening- WARNING: NLP Change Personal History
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 21, 2008 06:27AM

This is in reference to the CD set, “Your Inner Awakening: The Work of Byron Katie: Four Questions That Will Transform Your Life” by Byron Katie.

This is initially a much more mainstream, gentle, and seductive program for the widest possible audience. This is Katie at her most seductive. Her voice-tone is very different than her other audio program, it is much softer, slower, and it sounds as though she is talking to female children about 11 years old, the way she describes the worksheets, etc. She does not bombard the mind with as many confusing thoughts directly, but does so in a much more gentle and indirect fashion. She wants to be your new Best Friend.

INVITE Soft-Sell: She uses the word INVITE countless times in this program, maybe hundreds of times. That is right out of hypnosis…”I INVITE you to close your eyes…”. It’s a non-threatening way to bring you forward, like trying to make a cat trust you. Petting. Grooming. Luring.

I have to say that I truly feel empathy for the people who are going to get seduced by this material. Its presented like some Love-Everything New Age psychological program, but its not. But for her target audience, they are not going to see her techniques. Katie clearly is targeting regular spiritual, loving folks in these programs, moms and wives, with man problems, relationship nightmares, body issues, weight, and also those with serious pain in their lives, depression, Bipolar, alcohol, drugs, abuse and suicide.

SYMPATHY stories: she uses this like crazy in this program, with many sob-stories about her former miserable life, which surprise, is going to trigger things from her subjects current lives. But Katie uses these sob-stories to tug on the heart-strings of her compassionate listeners…poor Katie, sleeping on the floor, no one liked her, her kids hated her, the women in the halfway house all hated her, etc. Pure emotional manipulation, delivered with extra syrup.

HYPNOSIS: in this program, Katie very often does straight up regular light-hypnosis. She even INVITES people to CLOSE THEIR EYES, breathe, and verbally guides them along a Timeline, inner pictures and NLP Submodalities, and implants suggestions with Voice Commands. Anyone of Katie’s main promoters who tries to deny that Katie is a Hypnotist, is lying. Yes, they are lying right to your face, in order to try to keep your critical mind suppressed.

She also does a Turnaround on criticisms, to also turn off your questioning.

COCKROACH story: the cockroach story is meant to SHOCK the women who are listening. Everyone is afraid of a cockroach crawling on you, anyone would shriek, so it’s a way for her to penetrate your psyche with her Story. It works, you hear the Story once, and you never forget it. That is an NLP Anchor she builds from.

ROPE-SNAKE STORY: she says, ALL PROBLEMS ARE ROPES (false perceptions), NO EXCEPTION. Wants to turn off your healthy fears.

STORIES: Byron Katie says Gilgamesh is the oldest epic in history! See the blatant fraud she perpetrates? On one hand she says she knows nothing, yet occasionally it comes through by mistake.
Same mistake when she uses the word TRANSFORMATION, which is right from Werner Erhard. She also slips up once and calls herself a “free woman” then quickly corrects herself to say “free Being”, you see, she markets herself as a Being, not even a human!
LGAT slip: after 9 Days of her School, she says you won’t recognize your husband. Same type of Transformation The Landmark Forum preaches.

WAR of the MIND, says what she is doing is extremely radical, to Open Minds, open hearts, end all suffering. Mind is at WAR with itself. Katie’s “war” is the war for your Mind. (all of her stories about “war” are the war inside your own mind with her).

FORCEFULNESS: you notice how Katie starts out all loving and sweet, and after grooming, she becomes very very forceful, controlling, pushy, and aggressive in her live work. She is simply an aggressive advanced NLP hypnosis practitioner and persuader. She can make a young woman cry in 30 seconds over her weight problems. So can Stever Robbins, or any of the Advanced NLP people, its not hard to do with some training.

MONEY: She really starts cutting you in the CD #3 about money, and she really starts getting into Creating Confusion. One could spend hours dissecting what she is doing to you in this area, which is her #1 area. But she pushes towards how you DON’T need more money. You think she wants to make you more “unattached” to your money and house? How many people are mortgaging their homes to pay for Byron Katie advanced trainings? She also wants to push people to LOVE GIVING MONEY TO charity…who’s charity? Byron Katies “charity” of course, she’ll take care of the millions, tax-free. She then does a Turnaround on your belief “money is evil” to “I am evil”. (yes, Byron Katie seems to know a lot about evil, personally).

YOUR FIRED! She has a big Story about how she Fires people! Totally hilarious, she’s better than Trump…she says when she fires you, you fired yourself, and its for your own good, so she feels GREAT about it!! This has to be related to all of her “STAFF” she “hires” without getting paid. It’s a big story, and the message is clear…do what Byron Katies CEO says, or you are gone.

CHILDREN: dear lord, there is a very inappropriate section, where Katie brings a child up on stage with his father, to do The Work. (this is designed to get into her audience’s deep psyche, the inner child). Its truly heartbreaking, to see that level of malpractice done on a child. She does a straight up NLP hypno-suggestion on the child, its right there in plain sight, getting the kid to close his eyes and place his thoughts in the body, etc.
How can this unlicensed uneducated woman be allowed to mess around with children minds and family therapy, and record and sell it on CD? Near the end, she asks the child if he would like to do more? And the child says NO. The audience laughs, and Byron Katie KEEPS GOING for many more minutes. Is that even legal? A child says NO while on a stage being recorded, and Katie keeps going? That’s abuse.

MISDIRECTION: to a comical level, Katie comes out and says she cannot influence you to approve of her, or love her! Her entire system consists of doing exactly that using the most sophisticated techniques on earth, so to deflect people’s attention away from that, she says the opposite. She does this all the time. She actually has the outright conscious dishonesty, to say at the end of the CD that she DOES NOT MANIPULATE YOU IN ANY WAY!! Can you see the brilliance in this? All she does is manipulate your mind constantly, all the while telling you that she does not manipulate you. Invisible Mindwashing, she’s very proud of that, very “elegant”. And she gives you a snowjob right to your face, with a straight-face and a calm-voice.

At the end of the CD, she even refers to the very advanced NLP technique known as CHANGE PERSONAL HISTORY, but of course she says it in everyday language. Much of what Byron Katie is doing is about doing the Change Personal History technique, which is actually very dangerous, like installing False Memories. Byron Katie is doing the most unethical abuse of these techniques I can ever recall seeing. (please read up on these techniques so you know what Byron Katie is doing to you).

NLP Change Personal History
[www.google.com]


MOTHER: she goes on and on about her mother and death, how she bought her mom houses, etc. This is to connect with her audience, but also, guess what? Her audience Projects onto Katie a “mother” Transference, and Katie says her Mother in her Mind was a MONSTER, but in reality she was an Angel. Dear god, I feel sorry for people who get lured into Byron Katie’s nightmare, this is profoundly sick stuff, very warped and twisted.

DEATH: Katie says that after doing the work, you should feel no pain if a loved one dies. No empathy = psychopath.

Even after having seen so much ruthless manipulation and abuse of NLP and hypnosis, this is the worst I have studied, mainly due to the convincing soft-sell presentation, and who it is targeted at, and the outrageous betrayal and abuse of “love” against vulnerable subjects. The way she abuses the word “LOVE”, constantly saying “I LOVE_____” over and over, hundreds and thousands of times.
Its true that Katie targets spiritual, nice, decent, loving people, who do trust and believe her at face value, and when things go sour, they blame themselves as they have be programmed to do. Just hope someone in your family does not get deeply hooked into Byron Katie’s almost invisible mind-control system.
Where is it all going to end? Is Byron Katie going to continue to get away with it?

Serious Warning: One would be wise to be very cautious around those who have been involved with the Byron Katie Work for a long period of time, as most if not all of their normal empathy would be dissociated, and they no longer would feel the need to “tell the truth”. Katie is training them, Mindwashing them, that even if your own spouse or child died, then you should not feel anything, or feel joy. She is training people to become like a sociopath, or more precisely to TOLERATE a sociopath taking advantage of them, controlling their lives, liberating them of all their money, house, etc.
Watch out. Those who are deeply involved with The Work by Byron Katie for a period of years would be dissociated from a normal conscience and empathy, and could do very bad things to you, and not care in the least. Why should they? They’ve been carefully trained and brainwashed over a period of months and years to not care, and to literally see something like a person losing a limb, getting divorced, or being robbed of all their money, as wonderful. Katie has turned their minds inside out, for her own purposes. So please be very very cautious dealing with any of these so-called Certified Facilitators of The Work, who charge money to do The Work on you, who Work you over. When they do The Work, they put forward a superficial guise of being “Loving”, but in reality you are functionally, if not literally, dealing with a sociopath who does not even believe in the concept of Ethical behavior, or even that ethics or empathy exist.

When Byron Katie and her people are doing the advanced NLP hypnotic “Change Personal History” technique on you without your awareness or consent, that is beyond despicable, and extremely dangerous, in regards to False Memories, and triggering Traumas without a license. Its being grotesquely abused by Byron Katie and her senior Facilitators, and that can literally be lethal.

























------reference------------
Your Inner Awakening: The Work of Byron Katie: Four Questions That Will Transform Your Life [AUDIOBOOK] [UNABRIDGED] (Audio CD)
by Byron Katie (Reader)
Product Details
Audio CD
Publisher: Nightingale-Conant; Unabridged edition (February 13, 2007)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0743562720
ISBN-13: 978-0743562720

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