Back when Brian first started his attack on my mother, I saw many of the posters here make comments that it was not the "Christian" way to take up arms against David. But now I see no disparaging comments whatsoever, so I can only assume those posting here have changed their opinion as to what is and what is not acceptable in your campaign.

Is that really the "only" assumption you can make? Bit narrow don't you think? Here's a possible assumption which is not so judgmental.

Nobody knows an attack on her continues.

I agree with Muppet, in asking for you to tell us about what has recently happened so we can respond accordingly. Zeus says he has done nothing more. I for one take him seriously on that. Has Dave pushed your button? If he has you really need to disconnect it, as you are not doing him any favors giving him the reaction he wants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2008 05:17AM by apostate.

Thanks for having my back on that one, Apostate.

On my life, I tell you all the truth of this matter.

Barbiedoll, I admire your courage going to the JC loungeroom (cloaked flame thread) to seek to resolve your issues with them. Good luck with that. They still refuse to come to a forum where ex members have said he will not be banned or censored, so you obviously have the greater light within you doing something they cannot.

I also want you to know that I am here to offer any support if necessary. Be prepared for further outlandish accusations to come your way as that is is the brutish nature of their group. I know what it is like trying to get resolution from Dave. So do not feel as though you are alone as you approach the "lions den".

Offended

One more question. You mentioned that you do not hold any office in the Salvation Army.

I recall posting something on that topic on RR. ... in May 2006


'May 22, 2006 07:36PMmuppet
Date Added: 05/22/2006

Anaglypta is probably wrong about power sharing in the group. Dave McKay[/color:ff5aaabbf9] has always been the absolute leader of the group and all members have to send him detailed and frequent reports. He has been accused of being a pathological liar and actually admits to deception in one of his articles called 'The Great Escape' where (with the help of his brother Ron McKay [/color:ff5aaabbf9]who had some connection with the Salvation Army in the US at one stage) he hid an Indian minor from her parents until her 18th birthday and then took her to Australia, cutting her off from everything she was familiar with. In the process of fleeing this Indian village, and in an attempt to avoid detection the McKays deposited their literature in a local well!

He has repeated this recruitment pattern in the UK and more recently in the US where he claims that one of his members was beaten up by the family of the new recruit.

Are you saying that the information in the ' Great Escape ' (written by Dave) is wrong ? If so I would try to rectify the information I posted .

I will repeat again the support that you seek from here for your mother. I do not condone harassment or stalking and am most concerned about these serious allegations. Please provide further details as soon as possible so that we can respond to this alarming allegation.

I do not think it's really DM's brother at all, but an impostor; if it really were DM's brother, he'd of realized that I was not the first nor the only person to have called DM's mother that day.

Can you somehow prove or show reasonable evidence that you are who you say you are, Mr. Offended?

To help clarify some confusion. Dave has a brother who holds a rank is in the Salvation Army, as did Dave's father. The brother who is in the Salvation Army is married to a Salvation Army Officer, who I believe still out ranks him. They live in New Mexico.

The brother posting on this forum is not the Salvation Army Officer. Dave has several brothers.

To my knowledge Zeuszor has only phoned Alice once. After another forum member had contacted her.

The issue of her only surfaced again, when a letter from Alice (found by ex Children of God members) was published on another forum, that had appeared in Dave's newsletter, published over 20 years ago, by Dave himself. It appeared to support what Zeuszor had been saying, regarding what Alice's thoughts were about Dave, relayed during his phonecall with her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2008 10:46AM by private eyes.

At the risk of even more angry responses, I will respond to questions to me.
I would also like to apologize for coming off so angry, but it is only because I am angry. I realize the intent of this particular thread is David McKay and the Jesus Christians, and you will notice I have NEVER posted an 'angry' response to anything said about my brother. If Brian had simply posted that David McKay never visits his mother, even though I know that he visits her almost every year, I would have remained silent. But, Brian chose to post here [as factual evidence] things that my mother supposedly told him that I know to be untrue. THAT does make me angry, but I still believe it palls in comparison to some of the anger I see here. Malcolm, if that makes me a "gullible dunce", I can live with that if it will keep my mother out of your fight with David.
Muppet, thank you for your open mind and questions. I will endeavor to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

[Quote: Muppet: I was not aware that your mother was being stalked. Can you please provide more information about this?]
[Quote: Muppet: I will repeat again the support that you seek from here for your mother. I do not condone harassment or stalking and am most concerned about these serious allegations. Please provide further details as soon as possible so that we can respond to this alarming allegation.]

Last December, Brian called my mother in the nursing home presenting himself as knowing Dave personally, and writing a biography about him. He posted a lengthy letter on this forum with many things my mother allegedly told him. The main topic of this forum seems to be against tearing families apart, yet all of the things my mother is supposed to have said about David seems to serve NO purpose on this forum other than to damage any relationship my mother might have with David. The end result being my mother was very broken up about it and asked if there was anything I could do.
How did Brian come to contact my mother?

[Quote: Private Eyes: However, in regards to your post. I will claim some responsibly for Zeuszor's actions and apologise for the distress it may have caused your Mother. Some time ago I passed on some biographical information on the McKay family that would have allowed Zeuszor to be able to contact her. He was asked not to use the information and to his credit, he sat on the information for probably 5 months. The purpose of obtaining the information was to have a professional researcher contact your Mother and possibly other family members to obtain strictly biographical information on Dave's background. Where he went to school, worked, etc. I believe another person conducting research contacted your Mother and I can only assume Zeuszor became frustrated and decided to make his own inquiries. The comments should not have been posted on Rick Ross and the information he gained ie your Mother doesn't like you type comments, was not the type of information that we were hoping to gain.]
[Quote: Zeuszor: I have always aimed to portray myself with absolute transparency here. I did what I did with the blessing and under the counsel of other concerned mothers, and was not acting as a "Lone Ranger" on that operation. Sic semper tyrannus, McKay. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Turnabout is fair play, huh?]

You decide if he was absolutely transparent with Private Eyes (based on his words, not mine), if he was totally upfront with my mother, if what he posted falls in the realm of research, and what it is that I have dished out that makes this Turnabout fair play. I am neither the first (or probably last) person on this forum to suggest that Brian's methods of obtaining contact information are borderline stalking.

[Quote: RRmoderator(pg202): I agree. It is important not to attack people personally or have any kind of vendetta. "Two wrongs don't make a right." It seems to me that Dave McKay has hurt his own family, along with the many other families hurt by his behavior through his group. And whatever pain the McKay family has experienced should not be used here to fuel any argument. To the extent that the McKay family wishes to be heard publicly, should be their choice.]
[Quote: Apostate: Is that really the "only" assumption you can make? Bit narrow don't you think? Here's a possible assumption which is not so judgmental. Nobody knows an attack on her continues.]

Apostate, your post was in response to my post which pasted some of Brian's post from the top of page 306 where this time Brian said he has "met" my mother, and again uses her supposed words to try and convince someone reading the forum that David must be a snake, because his own mother believes so. Numerous readers (including you) posted since Brian's latest post on 306, so I apologize if I came off as judgmental assuming that readers of this forum read Brian's posts. When Brian again posts links to the very information that even the RRmoderator said should not be used to fuel any argument, and this time, no one objects, for days afterwards, I do jump to conclusions. Thank you RRmoderator, at least one person believes this information is an unjust attack on my mother.

[Quote: Muppet: Are you saying that the information in the ' Great Escape ' (written by Dave) is wrong? If so I would try to rectify the information I posted.]

I am unfamiliar with the 'Great Escape' but it appears Private Eyes has answered this question for you. My name is Rob, not Ron. I have never been a part of the JCs or visited any of their compounds.


What amazes me, is that no one on this forum questions ANYTHING out of Brian's mouth if it supports a negative image of David. I saw post after post of concerned individuals urging David to visit his mother he had not visited in several years based on what Brian says my mother told him. Yet, even though I live 2 miles from my mother’s nursing home, and am present each time my brother visits her, I must PROVE that what Brian is saying is wrong.

[Quote: Zeuszor: I do not think it's really DM's brother at all, but an impostor; if it really were DM's brother, he'd of realized that I was not the first nor the only person to have called DM's mother that day. Can you somehow prove or show reasonable evidence that you are who you say you are, Mr. Offended?]

It's also quite amazing that this SAME thing happened when I asked Brian to leave my mother alone back in pages 200-204. Brian's memory is failing or otherwise he would remember asking me the first letter of his "partner's" name who also called my mother that day (but not stalking). In addition to posting it on the top of pg 204, I posted a photo of my mother's hometown newspaper, with the local newschannel on tv in the background. I apologize to RR for creating a new profile, but I was unable to log on with my original account (Aghast), and I have a different email address now so I cannot get my old password. I realize this is a violation of forum rules (1 person cannot have 2 accounts) but I believe the rule is to prevent deception, and I am up front here in that I only created Offended because I can’t seem to log into Aghast.

[Quote: Zeuszor: You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Turnabout is fair play, huh?]

Fair enough Brian. If everyone on the forum is here on equal grounds, prove what you say my mother told you actually transpired? Somehow I doubt the forum would dismiss all this good dirt just because you couldn’t prove it to be true, but I am expected to prove who I am, simply because I wish to defend my mother. However, you said my mother told this same information to your ‘partner’. Could you provide me with a link to your partner’s posts stating what my mother told her? Not that I would assume you are a Lone Ranger, but you use the term blessing of mothers, and partner quite literally to lend credence to your statements. I know them to be false, (turnabout is fair play), prove them to be true.

. To all posters on this forum, your credibility with new readers to this forum will always be questioned if you only question the validity of things opposing your point of view.

Private Eyes, please correct me if anything I have presented here is inaccurate, or if I have unjustly accused anyone of anything on this forum, other than dragging my mother into your fight against the advice of the RRmoderator.

Quote
zeuszor
I do not think it's really DM's brother at all, but an impostor; if it really were DM's brother, he'd of realized that I was not the first nor the only person to have called DM's mother that day.

Can you somehow prove or show reasonable evidence that you are who you say you are, Mr. Offended?

Zeus, You are doing to this person what Dave did to David Lowe in asking him to prove himself. This poster showed me that you have reposted stuff from his mother on this forum and that is what he is upset about. I agree with him that his mother should not be involved in this in any way, even as far as posting Dave's newsletter copies of her letter to him all those years ago. I recall us coming to logger heads over this issue previously and ask that you comply with his requests and remove it from public view.

Gotta agree!

I would have rather not commented any further at all. I believe more discussion on this issue just focusses more attention on a matter that probably would have just run its course.

I think people have accepted that Alice was wrong when she allegedly told Zeuszor that Dave doesn't visit. Given his reports of his visits in the past via his newsletters, etc. His "forsaking" certainly hasn't inhibited his air travel.

However:

The issue of Zeuszor's and another party who greenlighted his call, occurred in December and has been widely discussed before. The family requested no further contact and I believe (without any information to the contrary) this still to be the case.

In regards to Zeuszor, "meeting" Alice, I believe he attempted to clarify the word, "met" in his post. He wrote"...my meeting her (by phone). I personally wouldn't have used the term met at all, rather I would have just said, interviewed.

The publication of Alice's letter from 20 years ago is an entirely seperate matter. The letter was published by Dave in his newsletter , that was widely distributed to anyone who asked for it and was prepared to spare a few cents for printing. Although he chided someone who did actually send him a few cents (but I digress). The letter, presumably having been found by an ex COG member was published on an ex COG site and was in the public domain, prior to it being published on Rick Ross by Zeuszor.

In fact, some of the posters of this site already had it, having obtained it from another source, prior to it appearing on the COG site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2008 11:21PM by private eyes.