Hi Moderator,

I've been away for a few days. I obviously don't know as much about cult-busting as you, but I wonder if you (and one or two others) are being a little harsh on Egypt-Eira. You sound like you're about to ban him because you suspect him of being a Jesus Christian apologist, or even a JC infiltrator - which to be fair I think has happened before in here. But here's my point: on past form, with potential new recruits, EE is probably being massively love-bombed by the JCs. If we turn him away, he'll think we're the bad guys and the JCs are the good guys. How crazy is that? So what's the worst case scenario? That EE is a JC infiltrator? Even if he is - which we don't know - what do we lose by engaging with him? A bit of time? Pride at having being fooled? Speaking personally, I can afford those things. But here's the thing: what if he's genuine? What if he's genuinely at a crossroads, intrigued by this organization and - if some of the allegations about the JCs are true - inadvertently about to put his kids in harm's way? If you ban him, you run the risk of driving him into the arms of the very organization we desperately hope he and his family will manage to escape. Let's be careful, people.

With love,

Talamasca

Talamasca:

Interesting point.

But EE has become a broken record, not much of a genuine exchange of ideas or dialog, just the same droning repetition.

Quote
private eyes
Readers might be interested to know that the so called, zero currency man that posts on the Jesus Christians Forum has written about the cult on his blog. Followers of the JC Forum will know that some of the US Jesus Christians cult were planning to meet up with this man who posts as, Suelo.

Suelo, actually Daniel James SHELLABARGER, claim to fame (if you get past all the rhetoric) is to enjoy an extended family and network of friends that he eats with regularly and/or house sits for, when he isn't jumping trains or having an occasional campout. You can read his report on the Jesus Christians on his blog. www.zerocurrency.blogspot.com.

SHELLABARGER hails from Portland, Oregon and sadly, is another person with a history of depression.

Depression, keeps propping up as I continue my indepth research into the Jesus Christians. I note that Edward Nolan ETTER also from Portland, Oregon is also a depression sufferer and is making inquiries about joining, under the pseudonyn, wuz2blu. Hopefully, Eddy will take a look at this site and seek some guidance from Rick Ross posters who are familiar with the cult and some of whom have also battled with depression.

I thought it interesting that Jose is referred to as an Ex jesus Christian and that he has thrown his lot in with Daniel. Jose was the one doing the whipping on the Fox news show. Be interesting to hear from him these days.

Look: not that I am the moderator by any means, but IMO trolls and suspected trolls ought to be dealt with swiftly and surely.

EE, we have produced a great amount of evidence as well as testimony from ex-members with respect to the true nature of DM and his organization. Some of this material (namely, negative press and attention-seeking behavior on DM's part) goes back 25 years. You have a plethora of information on the JCs at your fingertips online and I am sure that you are a bright man and not a fool; look into the matter thoroughly, do your homework on DM, and decide for yourself. That's all I ask.

Until then, please: nobody wants to debate or argue. Pardon me if I do not have the patience for that. Maybe somebody else does, but I do not. We can discuss the matter, but nobody wants to argue.

Do not take my direct style of writing as some indication of disrespect towards you on my part. I am simply trying to get a point across. It's not personal.

What more do you need to make up your mind? What more evidence of DM's corruption do you need to see? What would it take, friend?

Don't look into the matter "eventually", look into it now, come up with some good questions for us, and then come back and ask them. Until then, you have little else to say frankly and IMO.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2008 06:51AM by zeuszor.

Quote:

Apostate:

"I thought it interesting that Jose is referred to as an Ex jesus Christian and that he has thrown his lot in with Daniel. Jose was the one doing the whipping on the Fox news show. Be interesting to hear from him these days."

Jose did declare awhile ago that he was no longer a member. This last year may start ranking as one of the worse for the Jesus Christians in terms of losing members and not gaining any. I agree would be interesting to hear what some of the newer ex members are up to.

You would be aware that there is a fair degree of psychological pressure in the form of judgement placed on ex members. Questioning if they are still living by faith (as the JC understand that term). Perhaps that explains why Jose may still feel the need to hang out with people like Daniel, although he is no longer a member?

What I personally found interesting, humorous and yet at the same time very sad, was the reference to the US cell members, carrying signs and money burning.

These are the same stunts which were allegedly carried out 25 years ago by cult members and by McKAY himself. Arrests often resulted, which led to criminal records, which made it dificult for some members to move forward later on in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2008 12:07PM by private eyes.

It appears that Dave McKAY may have been telling the Quakers what he wants them to hear. Three times no less. Rather than addressing their (the Quakers) concerns. If his most recent post on the Quaker saga is anything to go by.

Dave claims that as a consequence, the Quakers examining him are going to recommend that he be, "dismembered" to the Regional Meeting .
As I not a Quaker, I can afford to laugh at their choice of terminology, but in regards to their actions, IMO I think it is a wise move.

Speaking of Quakers. Did anyone else find it interesting that the photograph of Robin the other day, headed, Timely Rescue (and obviously taken by a very timely Photographer?) described him as, of Friends Church of Liranda, Kakamega?

Obviously, whilst I applaud his actions, it does help to illustrate the issue of cross promotion which has been raised before. There is uncertainty (when these matters are promoted on the JC website and via their newsletters) which causes people to question which activities are Quaker activities and which are Jesus Christians and whose agenda is being best served?

Perhaps Dave may argue that if he was described as a Jesus Christian, we might accuse them of publicity seeking? However, I guess the end result has been the same. Brave effort though on Robin's part and a great photo. A potential newspaper photograph award winner, I would think.

Hi Rick

In regards to Egypt-Eire I agree with Talamasca. I don't think there is any harm in engaging him. If he is a player, time will tell and he can be dealt with accordingly. If he is genuine, we are probably in the best position to help.

The Jesus Christians have over many years attracted an ecletic mix of what some would call eccentrics. So Samuel doesn't come as any real surprise to me.

He has already revealed a near death experience and shared that he believes he is dominated by his wife. I suspect as time goes by, the real issues of why he is seeking comfort with the Jesus Christians will begin to emerge and we may be in a position to assist.

I have corresponded with quite a lot of people, who I have questioned as to why they interact with the Jesus Christians. Many have told me they are bored, lonely and feeling at a spiritual crossroad, etc. In regards to Egypt-Eire, I see the old line has already been trotted out to him, "I think we may have a team in your area shortly". It's very comforting and flaterring to have a group willing to travel directly to a potential convert and the JC know it!

So I believe we should give Eygpt-Eire a chance. But we probably need to caution him that if he wants to be taken seriously, he should take the time to read carefully, the entire 311 pages on this forum. The visual archive, largely compiled by Zeuszor (good work and thanks, Zeuszor), the feral thread ( always funny and entertaining rants largely by Malcolm) and the large database of articles compiled by yourself. If nothing else, that should at least keep him busy for a few months.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2008 01:25PM by private eyes.

Sorry haven't been posting much here:life is very hectic.

Re Egypt Eire, my guess is that curently nothing anyone says here will be taken positively by him: in fact if he is trying to win approval from Dave, criticizing people here will probably score him some points.

However, if he joins the JCs ( which is where he appears to be heading), and after experiencing the reality of JC life, he becomes disillusioned or just has more questions, it would be great if he was not banned, as he is then being cut off from what may otherwise eventually be a good source of support.

So my vote is : please let him keep his access here, because one day it may be very helpful to him, and to his family.
For now, it is easy enough to not take his requests for information too seriously: there is plenty already available on the thread.

Yasmin makes a good point, and I hope barbiedoll wont mind me mentioning her example. She was quite hostile to my warnings to her about going in with the JC's, and it was only because she hadn't already been banned (because she never posted here) that she was able to come and post here when she found out what it's really like to live with David McKay as the puppet-master.

Australian Story on ABC television this Monday night at 8:00 EST (Australia) will have the story of Ash's kidney donation.

[www.abc.net.au]

There will be a forum after.

[www2b.abc.net.au]

Also relevant to this story is the one about how the Quakers will no longer tolerate David McKay as a member and are about to "dis-member" him. One can only infer the lies about an innocent Quaker man published on the Jesus Christians web site by him are part of the cause of this. They would paper a house if you printed them off! And David McKay refuses to take them down.

Get your posts written and saved and ready to go!

I suspect that unlike the level playing-ground offered to him, which he dismissed as little more than a blog, David will be only too eager to join this forum (even if he refused to do an interview....)!

As Loudon Wainwrighte 111 said, and it is as true of this as anything back then:

"CHORUS:
Down in Southern California
There's a guru that is guruing there
He's got 250 followers
They're following him everywhere

He's got all of the answers to all of the questions
And he promises to make us fee
He's got all the solutions to all of the problems
That are plaquing our society
All the followers they love to follow their Guru
Everything else is a hoax
They kiss his lotus feet,
You know they make up his bed
You know they're laughing at all of his jokes
He protects his people from the outside world
His people need never be afraid
Cause if you're his disciple and he happens to like ya
I can tell you, that you've got it made

Well if you're not part of this special,
Selective, exclusive, elite family
You're considered a heathen, and a sap, and a sucker
Devoid of spirituality
They try to sell you some mints,
And and some cookies
Or some literature to show you the way
Yeah they'll prostletizing and it's mesmorizing
And they're making moulah everyday



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2008 02:47AM by Blackhat.