Thanks for the link Zeuszor. So glad it sounds like everyone is safe for now: am still praying (and am sure many others are too) for everyones' safety.
Dogsmother, I liked your Bahai quotes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2008 11:58AM by yasmin.

Dave posted today....

Ok, Glenn, you got me rolling on the floor with that one! Very good!

This is hardly the time for anyone to be rolling on the floor with laughter. What do you guys think?

The people of Kenya are in great peril. Joe's parents are frantic. They have not heard from their son since Dave alarmed them about his predicament. All that drama....

Joe posting today some benign nonsense instead of calling his family. How can anyone be more cruel and inhuman than Dave? I'm asking.

I sat next to that devil on the Jeremy Kyle show, a trauma I will never forget. How can any of you JCs stand being near him? I'm asking.

Ross (Mr Smiley Face) speaks on the JC forum.

"I think Craig is driven by envy and a desire to see Dave brought down in whatever way he can achieve it.
I'd say its becoming an obsession with him, just as it has been with Malcolm who also thinks he has been hard done by by Dave.
Seeing as Malcolm and Craig are probably kindred spirits.
Hate? maybe it just depends how far down the road to hell one travels"

[welikejesus.com]

Ross, you strike me as someone who would, under normal circumstances, see through Dave. I may be projecting more intelligence onto you than I should, but really? You are a certain age, and you have been watching this for so long, and you are old enough to have enountered this delusional messianic stuff before (back in the day!).

Have you invested so much of your life in this that you think you can't get out? Live your life for a fool? C'mon. Not saying for you to come over to "our side", but maybe think about coming over to "your real side" after all these years and work. Maybe think about other worthwhile Christian communities which are not so personality/ego driven? Like the "Peace Tree" someone on your forum brought up........and similar. I think even the Quakers could accommodate you.......

Seeing that Dave is allowing the members in his community to think I have not been banned I thought I may as well repost my comments here to his generous offer.


Yes, Dave exercise your control over my mouth, as you did over that young boy in the electric wheel chair when you disconnected the battery as he was trying to get away from you... much to the horror of his mother. The interesting thing about it all is that you make yourself sound so reasonable as you take away the freedom of another. After all it is for MY benefit because it "may give ME (ed) some time to do a few other things with MY (ed) free time;" So considerate, so kind. You are increasing my freedom by taking it away. You even say "Please". How can I refuse? And it will keep people on the Rick Ross forum happy after all, because they are "apparently bothered" that you are "spending too much time responding to ME (ed)" How sacrificial. You have considered the needs and wants of so many others. You are meeting so many other people's needs in this simple act of banning me. Of course it has nothing to do with YOU and YOUR need to control others.

Personally Ross, I am surprised at your level of submission to Dave on this issue. We were friends once upon a time. I lived and travelled with you for years. Remember those nights in the tent camping? I do. You were going through a particularly rough patch after returning from USA. You mention something horrible I was supposed to have done at Woomera. All I did was try to introduce the brother and sister law of a incarcerated refugee to you... but you ran way and didn't give them the time of day.

Oh, and on a side note, I really think you change your avatar as a "smiley" face doesn't quite match your bitterness and anger. Want to do a sawp with my "hot stuff"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2008 10:07PM by apostate.

Quote
Dogmother
Dave posted today....

Ok, Glenn, you got me rolling on the floor with that one! Very good!

This is hardly the time for anyone to be rolling on the floor with laughter. What do you guys think?

The people of Kenya are in great peril. Joe's parents are frantic. They have not heard from their son since Dave alarmed them about his predicament. All that drama....

Joe posting today some benign nonsense instead of calling his family. How can anyone be more cruel and inhuman than Dave? I'm asking.

I sat next to that devil on the Jeremy Kyle show, a trauma I will never forget. How can any of you JCs stand being near him? I'm asking.

Yeah, the demon actually approached me and we shook hands.

He actually smiled and thanked me for coming.

When I called him my nemesis, he laughed like it was funny.

That I will never forget. I thought that he was creepy too. Especially Cherry, she was totally wooden and would not look me in the eye. I'll bet her blood, like her husband's, runs cold like ice water.

Often I have wondered: how much time elapses after a person is recruited into the group before they actually personally meet DM?

I reckon it's not right away; they'd have to wait a while before meeting him face to face and communication with him would be limited to email at first.

If a recruit met him right away, he'd repel more kids than he'd attract. A sufficient amount of conditioning must have to take place to trap the recruit into the group before they meet DM.

Is this so? Do they meet him right away, or do some people not meet DM for months or even years? How much personal contact does he actually have with his people?

Apostate, I was saddened to see the utter contempt shown by Dave and Ezra to your posting of the Dr. Z list.

The Lucifer Effect thread

First off, the condescending tone of Ezra, as in, 'My, my, my... you certainly are everywhere these last few days, Craig. To be quite honest, it can be a little creepy sometimes when I see "Apostate" signed upo under every category. Got a little time off work, do you?'

Secondly, Dave's inability to comprehend something when it suits him, as in, 'Can you maybe sum up in your own words what you think he was saying, and maybe give some idea about how you think it relates to this forum? Thanks.'

I think Ezra is just plain stupid. Perhaps a classic example of someone who feels a need to comment after shining the master's shoes. My advice to Ezra is to take some time out after exhausting him/herself with such chores. Yeah, I know it can be tiresome to have to try and absorb new information when any information is tackled on the defensive.

With regard to Dave's comment, it's no doubt a classic example of going on the defense when there is a threat of being usurped by a higher authority than himself. It just doesn't seem sincere when Dave is so articulate about so many issues and then has difficulty grasping the message of this list. It seems a clear example of bully-boy tactics to ask you to sum up the list in your own words when it is clear that you are only being tolerated on their forum. I wonder why Dave didn't use an exclamation mark at the end of his 'Thanks.'

Hmmm...

Quote
Jack Oskar Larm
Apostate, I was saddened to see the utter contempt shown by Dave and Ezra to your posting of the Dr. Z list.

The Lucifer Effect thread

It seems a clear example of bully-boy tactics to ask you to sum up the list in your own words when it is clear that you are only being tolerated on their forum. I wonder why Dave didn't use an exclamation mark at the end of his 'Thanks.'

I agree Jack. Dave is a bully. A bully who likes to silence those who disagree by banning them and then while they are banned continue telling stories about them to prime group members. Dave says he get bored responding to me, but I note he cannot resist responding. He could always go elsewhere on his so called "forum".

The list I provided was obvious in its meaning and is open for anyone to apply it how they like. That was how it was presented. Dave chose to try and frame it as an attack. It is not neccessary to read the entire book to get an understanding, anymore than it is neccessary to read the entire bible to understand something from the book of proverbs. But seeing as how Dave is playing the "gee, I don't know what you mean card" I thought I would take just one of the list items and see if I can apply it somewhere on the JC and raise a question by doing so.

Here we go:

14. Never allow yourself to be cut off emotionally from your familiar and trusted reference groups of family, friends, neighbors, co-workers – do not accept putdowns against them.

When reading this Dave, and the rest of you followers, think of the "dysfunctional families" thread. Are you allowing the existance of that thread to be a place where you permit the public putting down of your family members?

My take on one of the reasons the list says to "never allow yourself to be cut off" is because resisting such an influence will help you to stay grounded, not becoming insular in your thinking... imagining that yours in the only true reality.

I agree, apostate, entirely. What is the benefit of being 'cut-off'? (yes, I can imagine in the case of the JCs and other such cults that this 'cutting off' might be useful...).

Now, as an adult thinker, I'm not going to interpret the suggestion of No. 14 as 'following just another closed mindset', as Dave has suggested with what he has chosen to read/interpret of Dr. Z's stuff.

I think the message in No. 14 is about having an expanded group, a reference group. It's pretty simple, standard logic, me thinks. I may not agree with every idea/aspect of whatever reference group I chose to associate with, but that's the point, isn't it? To have some measure of objectivity.

An example might be: I'm looking for advice and/or support and I realise that the larger my reference group the more options I have at coming to some satisfactory understanding of my situation. If my friends can't advice or support me, then I can turn to my family, or even seek some specialised help.

It just doesn't make sense to limit one's group, unless that group is of absolutely no value at any given time (and I can accept that this particular idea can be quite sticky because of my own feelings, thinking, bias, etc).

So, in conclusion, the suggestion in Z's No.14 makes perfect, healthy sense. I mean, what's the option? What, join an insular group with their own agenda? I think not! Not much room for growth, if you ask me...

BTW, I think cult-thinking leaders such as McKay are threatened by the sheer beauty of 'other' information, especially when articulated so well, so succinctly. You know, I've only now started to visit the JC's forum and it's clear how 'damaged' McKay and his group are. My suspicion is that McKay is drawing near to the end of his arguments with 'outsiders' because, as a seemingly intelligent person, he's resorting more and more to emotional outbursts and childish logic. In the next few days, I'll find a few telling quotes. It truly saddened me reading his dialogue with a poster named, Michal.

If there are any doctors in the house, perhaps they could confirm my suspicion that McKay is suffering from some form of dementia.

What is the JC's policy on medical examinations?

The only information Dave appears to be interested in. Wants his followers to be interested in and also promoting. Is his own words:

“I believe that the members of our community are largely convinced that they have a special message from God himself. It just so happens that it has come first through me. They are happy to repeat it in their own words to others outside the community, but they have found that the most efficient way to get the message out to the maximum number of people with the minimum distortion is for them to distribute my writing in print.”

Excerpted from, “Something to Say”, circa August 2002 (emphasis mine)