Hello forum members,

Again, can you please check you are able to get messages, there is a full box here which can't get them.....please delete some so you can get them.

Thanks

Blackhat.

Great news from Kenya, in that it seems Joe and another who was in danger were flown out of the area and are on their way to safety.

[welikejesus.com]

Nobody here on the RR forum, who are determined to alert any potential recruits to the Jesus Christians that they are a cult, wants to see anyone harmed because of civil unrest.

Thank you, David, for posting that news. Shame about the internet bill. How is Yearly Meeting going? Looking forward to your report.

Joe: "I just wanted to take the opportunity to publically thank the community for all of the time, money, and effort they have invested to help ensure the safety of both GD and I. We both really appreciate it.

I know that I feel a lot better here, not only because I am far away from "Luol-land" (where I could easily be confused with a Kikuyu), but also because I can see that GD feels a lot better. As a church, we are supposed to be one body; so when GD is tense, I/we feel that tension. When GD can relax, I/we all can now relax. Brotherly love and community care are cornerstones in the teachings of both Jesus and Paul for within a church, and I am really touched by the way the community has been executing those ideals under the current pressure situation. It really is a great testimony"

[welikejesus.com]

That's great Joe, now please call your mother (if you haven't done so already, and I hope you have!).

Apostate, thanks for your posts and the initiative to create a set of posts especially for Quakers.

I actually attended some Quaker meetings after leaving the group as a way to heal after being in the Jesus Christians. I was certainly surprised that this very tolerant, pluralistic and gentle group was infiltrated later on by the JC's. I consider their philosophy and modus operandi are completely incompatible with the JC's.

Apostate has made the case very well in regards to violence and pacifism. To expand on this, it might be helpful to note Dave's and the JC's very strong party line in regards to the physical disciplining of children. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is a good summary of their position. Physical spanking was applied regularly to children for minor misbehaviour. This was expected by the leadership, and parent's could be hauled into "grievance meetings" to be "re-educated in David McKay thought" if they were seen to be too soft on their children and not smacking them enough.

It is constantly preached in the JC's that Western civilisation is too soft and is destroying children by the lack of smacking and physical discipline. It is not surprising that the whole whipping doctrine has easily emerged from this bedrock of corporal punishment for children. It was also regularly said that children's spirits need to be "broken" like a wild animal needs to be tamed and this idea was put into grim practice regularly.

These ideas are not out of place with traditional fundamentalist right-wing Bible Belt philosophy and practice. They are, however, very much out of place with our current knowledge of child development and extremely opposed to modern Quaker thought and practice.

Thank you Apostate and cultmalleus for sharing just how incompatible the Jesus Christians teachings and way of life is with the Quakers.

I do hope the Quakers attending the Australian Yearly Meeting will take note of your comments.

Your views are formed from many years of actually being members of the Dave's cult and having participated in some of the alleged deceptions.

As Apostate bravely points out, he was jailed for his involvement in some of the stunts. It will be harder for Dave to dismiss your eye witness accounts, although I am sure he will no doubt try.

I found Apostate's description of Dave promoting "flee bags" interesting as David Berg of the Childen of God, devoted Mo letters to the subject.

Dave has been quoted as saying he spent somewhere between two weeks and three months in the Children of God, depending on which publication you read. He says he left only because of certain sexual teachings. Now these teachings are tied to specific dates, so his departure would need to coincide with those dates.

In any case, he certaintly must have been a fast learner, when you consider how much material from the Children of God has been incorporated throughout the Jesus Christians history. Beginning with when they were known as the McKay Family (source: "Happy Holidays" tract) and later, The McKays (source: "You can Quit your Job Forever" tract).

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private eyes
In any case, he certaintly must have been a fast learner, when you consider how much material from the Children of God has been incorporated throughout the Jesus Christians history. Beginning with when they were known as the McKay Family (source: "Happy Holidays" tract) and later, The McKays (source: "You can Quit your Job Forever" tract).

I personally have never been able to fathom how so much of the Children of God teachings have been so easily re-published as Jesus Christians' teachings if David McKay spent as little time with them as he says. Three months! Must have been an accelerated learning program!

Either he is a plagiarist or a liar.


.............

Speaking of Jesus Christian disciplining of children, Christine, Dave's daughter, once locked my son (2 years old at the time) into a room because he would not confess he was a "little boy". He kept saying "No, I am a big boy", as a normal two year old is want to do. Christine did this while she was "babysitting" for us, and the matter of factly explained to us the reason when we returned home due to it being, in her mind, a sign of "pride".

Dave once told me that I had to accept that this same boy was "incorrigible" at the age of 3, and that I had to work to break him as Cultmalleus has pointed out. I once raised the difficulty of raising children within the Jesus Christians with Dave, due to every Tom Dick or Harry thinking they had parental authority over a child they viewed as communbity property, pointing out to him that all his children were teenagers by the time he formed his community. Dave basically just fobbed off my complaint and forced all married couples to live in a house where it was specified in the lease that were to be no children, so we had to hide that fact by drying nappies inside the house instead of on the clotheslines in the sun. Such is the manner in which married couples with children are relegated to second class status within their "virgin army". Dave would, as Cultmalleus pointed out, expect parents to "forsake" the children to the group. Some parents did this and spoke negatively of their own children, when they should have been speaking of the positive things of having a child in their lives.

An example of this is when I sat and listened to Roland in MacDonalds opposite the Hoyts theatre in Syndey speaking resentfully of his son because he slowed him down in distributing tracts, and how much he resented him getting tired being with his parents on the streets and needing an afternoon nap. Imagine being a child growing up in that world. A world where you are veiwed as a liability until you can get a hundred tracts out for good donations to cover priniting costs. I heard the Roland's son was able to be pleasing to the Jesus Christian virgin army by getting a hundred tracts out on the street by the time he was 10 years old. No school for that lad, only homeschooling squeezed in around distributing hours.

Somehow I just can't see this type of behavior as being compatable with a Quaker way of life.

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Blackhat


Either he is a plagiarist or a liar.


.............

David Mckay is an excellent chameleon and seeing that he largely operates outside the box it is easy for him to see what to do to pass himself off as something he is not.

Dave Mckay the catholic

Dave Mckay the COG shepherd

Dave Mckay the Quaker

Dave Mckay the freegan

etc, etc, etc...

THIS POSTING MAKES ME WEEP.

What are you doing to the children, David?

I have sat on that little bit of sad history for a number of years now. I can certainly attest that my children are all healthy happy balanced individuals who love life and enjoy being children socialising normally with other children their own age. David Mckay's cursing of them had little effect because I put the welfare of our family before his group agenda. I forsook HIM. It took us years before I could send our children to a public school, such was the indoctination we had received against "system" schools where "philistines" raise our children. The mental hurdles we had to overcome to live a normal life were monumental. He did promote the MO way of raising children from COG MO letters, with Berg's 3 R's (i.e. reading riting and rithmatic) to a grade 7 level being all a child needs to be in the army of God.

Dave imitates David Berg pf the Children of God by writing letters to the children of members in his group, treating them as "equal" members, but in doing so he subtly seek to divide families and sway children away from parental authority.

To be fair to Christine though, she was/is also a child, having grown up under an oppressive regime of Dave Mckay thought and world view. When in India she got herself into such a mental state she had to lock herself in a room asking for sedatives to be passed through barred windows to her... such is the degree of high expectation his own children are forced to meet. He seeks to have his members replicate this in their lives with their own children.

And he has the nerve to say that the Jesus Christian way of life is compatible with Quakers ideals and beliefs.