Glenn is now saying that David called his Father and threatened his family, and more......

"Like threats againt my family.That put you in the shits when Brian rang Alice, but if someone called my dad and pulled the same, i guess that ok in your books"

"Calling one of the members mother a whore, regarldess of whether he apologised, he doesnt even know the woman to make that call."

"Pestering Barry about how much Barry had given the JC when he joined"

[welikejesus.com]


Hmmmm,..............and we say you are a cult?

Blackhat, Thank you for the post regarding how David is once again trying to control parents by telling them who and who they cannot converse with. With the added threat that if they don't tow his line, they will miss out on information about their son. Quakers please take note of your pacifist, Dave.

I was fascinated too, that my reference on the 2 January to him not having next of kin details was attributed to some sort of dialogue with the family.

Dave made comments to that effect on the 31 December on his website and that was my source. He doesn't even seem to be able to recall material he writes himself and then blames it on others.

It interesting too that he berates a Woman for turning to prayer in a time of crisis, rather than responding directly to him. Is Dave saying he is more important than God?

Yes, it's a big worry when people say they are doing a mission in another country, and then when things blow up, it turns out they don't have any kind of plan for looking after the volunteers, aside from hiding them in a pit! What any parent would need in such a situation is clear information. But it seems David McKay would use it as a point-scoring exercise to prove his power over the parents in this case. I think its shameful.

He is withholding information because he wants to control who the parents speak to.

Just like a kidnapping ransom demand!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2008 06:53PM by Blackhat.

The supposed threats against a family member of an associate of the Jesus Christians seen a bit far fetched. I've never heard of a potential cult member being discouraged from joining a cult, by threatening to expose details of one of the subject's family members.

Dave has made inferences that because the subject has claimed to have received an email with such a threat. That it must have come from someone associated with the Rick Ross Forum. More specifically, he has mentioned David Lowe, who I doubt is involved on this forum and as a Quaker, wouldn't be the type of person you would normally associate such actions.

It is far more likely that the email (if it exists) came from a person who knows the subject intimately and what the details are, that could be exposed.

As has been pointed out previously. There is a group that would stand to gain from the subject's relations at work being strained and causing him to leave. There is a group that would stand to gain from him thinking poorly of Rick Ross Forum members. There is a group that would like him to abandon his work and family. But it isn't the Rick Ross Forum.

Do you think the Quakers are aware that Dave ordered the whipping of a Kenyan volunteer within their compound for some "sin" against them?

Apostate, that wasn't just ANY sin, that was the cardinal sin of THEFT!!! It must be one of the most wicked sins in the JC's rulebook to deserve such punishment!

That is the Jesus message they are getting out with that stunt. Preach it, brother! Whippings for theft! Whippings from FULL Gospel Jesus Christians! Amen! What an AWESOME witness to new disciples and new lamblings and potentials! Shondebarondeelalalala!

Dave's relentless emotional "whipping" of anyone who opposes him and his unchristian deeds amounts to thousands upon thousands dollar's worth of medical bills.

Eventually, to stay sane, people are strongly advised by their doctors and spiritual advisors to quit. But there are medical records all over the world of what Dave has done to good, sane, decent and intelligent people.

Quote
Blackhat
Yes, it's a big worry when people say they are doing a mission in another country, and then when things blow up, it turns out they don't have any kind of plan for looking after the volunteers, aside from hiding them in a pit! What any parent would need in such a situation is clear information. But it seems David McKay would use it as a point-scoring exercise to prove his power over the parents in this case. I think its shameful.

He is withholding information because he wants to control who the parents speak to.

Just like a kidnapping ransom demand!

It's all turning into type of hostage-negotiation type situation, IMHO.

Not too different than DM putting a gun to the kids' heads and screaming, "Nobody move or the kid gets it!"

Demoniac Dave has them all as his human shields and he knows it.

Regretfully, I must express that I feel this matter of the JCs is coming to a head.

Something disastrous and tragic is not too very far off. Unless, of course, somebody does something to incarcerate or otherwise somehow stop David and his drones.

I do not presume to suggest specifically which measures should be taken to that end; I only say that this madman and his clones must be somehow stopped.

All one in my position can do is watch and pray. I volunteer as well to switch places with any of them in some emergency if need be. I hope that it does not come to that, but my gut says that somebody is going to die before it's all said and done, Heaven's Gate style. A death will be the end result of DM's dementia.

Time to pray and fast, people.


My thoughts: IMO, we should give up on trying to reason with DM, as 1) the ability to feel or even understand guilt, or the capacity for empathy, is something that is foreign to him anyway (you'll never get through to him by appealing to his emotions, because he has none) and 2) his logic-processing capabilities are entirely self-serving and full of fallacious argumentation. Mostly what I see in his mind is the constant tendancy to reduce every argument put against him to absurdity (in logic, called the reductio ad absurdum) in order to try and make his critics look stupid (ad hominem fallacy). Here is a good example:

We Jesus Christians teach (as Jesus taught) that people must forsake everything they own, forsake their families and friends, property and jobs, and even their own lives to be Christians. And yet we ourselves own stuff, have families (which we often visit), and are still alive.

What is even more amazing is that Jesus had clothes, a "purse", family and friends, and was alive at the time he spoke those words too.

See if you can figure it out, Craig.

[welikejesus.com]

Jesus had a good relationship with His mother, too, but that doesn't seem to get through to DM.

DM's mind is replete with illogic and all kinds of fallacious argumentation. Read this over and you'll see DM all over it.

[www.don-lindsay-archive.org]

We'll unfortunately NEVER be able to get through to them using logic, reason, or emotionalism. DM and his people thrive on conflict and love to be persecuted. The louder you shout, so to speak, the more righteous they feel. A classic folie a deux situation. The way I see it, the phenomenon is very organic in nature, like a psychological virus, and these kids are "infected." It's like the old Chinese finger-trap toy; the harder you struggle to get out of it, the tighter it'll hold you. You cannot "think your way out of" such a closed system of logic that DM has trapped them with. Because as we both admit, it's hard to say that they are wrong on a lot of points, the main one being: "Did Jesus really mean what He said, or not?" That's how he gets them, you see. He then exploits their guilt and zeal to his own ends. Uses the "red letters" as a mechanism of control, namely control for David.

IMO this is the best that can be hoped for, unfortunately: just contain them so they cannot get anybody else. Just like a quarantine.

DM is what Peck called a "Person of the Lie", an "ambulatory schizophrenic". I am not a doctor or anything but am as convinced of that as I am of my own name.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 02:06AM by zeuszor.

FROM "BLOOD SACRIFICE"

[www.guardian.co.uk]



Dave has always admired martyrs who behave provocatively - the Buddhists who set themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam, and so on. In fact, he once seriously considered setting himself on fire, in India, when a local orphanage was threatened with -closure. More recently, when Abu Sayyaf guerrillas took 25 people hostage in the Philippines, Dave offered himself in their place, and tried to set up an international hostage exchange programme, in which philanthropic Christians would swap places with hostages at a moment's notice. "I think they were just spiritual tests to ascertain whether I'd be willing to take such extreme steps," he tells me. "We don't want to sound a trumpet about how great we are, especially when we haven't actually done anything - at least, not yet."

DM is like a bratty little kid who'll hold his breath until he turns blue so that he can scare people and get his way. But he is much more dangerous than that.

God have mercy on your soul, David McKay. If you have one, that is.

At this time, I reiterate my public offer to switch places with any one of the JCs who may be in danger.

You know my email address.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 04:43AM by zeuszor.

FYI I have received this report from someone who has family in Kenya.

Within the the last 3 days there has erupted a huge campaign of violence, ethnic cleansing and tribal warfare from the alleged rigging of the presidential election leading to the re-election of Kibaki. I will not relate the details as they are all readily available on the websites I include at the bottom of this email... but the basic reality is that the country is entering a state of warfare... Marshall law has been declared by the president... a curfew... riot police are out in streets throughout the country... if you are out past curfew you are beaten or shot... looting and rioting has decimated many of the shops in the town centers... many I and my family would frequent...leaving many without basic supplies to live.

The President has shut off all the radio stations... all you hear is the eerie sound of static as you scan the airwaves... The television stations are only broadcasting un-interupted movies... no news.. no announcements... Everyone in Kenya uses pre-paid calling cards for cell phones.. and the president has ordered them to stop being sold... He has stopped all flow of information internally... We had to ask our mom not to call her friends and conserve what little credit she has.. we now have to call regularly to check on the situation... even the phone networks have been going down... He has shut the water supply off to Nairobi City (the largest and most developed city in east africa)... There are frequent blackouts... The two major tribes representing the presidential opponents are Kikuyu and Luo. My Wife and Family are Luo. Kikuyus are attacking and killing Luos en-masse throughout the country... and Luo are killing Kikuyu around the country... within the last day.. mass killings have begun.. In Lou towns Kikuyus have begun killing Luos.. locking Luo social clubs while people are inside and burning them down... over 50 Kikuyu women and children sought refuge in a church after their homes were burned and an angry mob locked them in the church and set fire to it killing 35... those who escaped were met on the outside with the mob... beaten... and burned to death in a kitchen garden outside the church... decimation of neighborhoods, slums, and villages where supporters of either candidate are being burned to the ground.. with people inside....These atrocities are reminiscent of the beginnings of the Genocide which took place in Rwanda (The next Door neighbor to kenya)...

My Mother In Law in Kenya received word from a friend in government that Kibaki was about to be announced the winner off the election and that she should rush to the grocery store because it was about to get very bad... she sent my cousins to the store to buy what food she could afford... that night 3 local social spots where my family would regularly hang out were locked up and burnt down with people inside... Luckily my family was all at home anticipating the violence to come...They are locked in their small apartment.. 2 small bedrooms in a stone apartment structure. They have a small security gate before the front door which they have padlocked shut... My brother in law... lost track of his family when their neighborhood was attacked, people killed, and burnt to the ground... he ran around searching all night and luckily he was able to locate them... they rushed to my mother in laws home... He, His Wife, and Small children had to pass through streets littered with bodies... there are now over 14 people in this tiny apartment... they only have food for a couple more days... the stores are dangerous if impossible to get to... most stores have been shut or ransacked so there is no food anyway... what food is left is being sold at very high costs... Gunshots are heard round the clock and throughout the night...

I paint this picture to give an idea of the severity of the situation... I watch and feel helpless... Many who have watched Hotel Rwanda can remember that feeling of "What did we / could we have done to prevent this..." This is a similar situation... I am not sure of the best remedy for it.. but it is apparent that something needs to be done before the violence, civil unrest and massacres extend any further... How can I sit by and watch another Rwanda or Somalia take place without so much as opening my mouth... and the fact that my family is directly involved impels me to act with determination. Things may get better on their own... maybe in a few days... a few weeks... a few months... but for each day it doesn't... lives are lost.. families shattered.. and we inch closer to genocide... how many times did people assume that it would probably work itself out in Rwanda or Somalia.... and thereby delay their own action... inaction enabled a spark to become a flame and a flame into an inferno.

I am writing to my congress people in Los Angeles... imploring them to press the US govt. and the UN to intervene... The only way to ensure my families safety is to ensure peace in Kenya... Please take a moment to do something... write to your congress person or call them and urge them to address the issue of the unrest in Kenya with haste... Each day that passes people are dying and being ripped from their homes... only 250 people have been documented killed so far... thousands injured and over 70,000 made homeless in 3 days... This does not include those who are fleeing and are undocumented by the statistics. I mentioned hotel Rwanda.. and the vivid picture it painted which brought us all a bit of shame... now picture your family in that hotel... being left to die as other countries get their own people out... this is more than a movie... My family is at serious risk... and I am praying for their safety. Please take a moment and help be a part of bringing about peace, not only for my own families but for all of Kenya... And Above All Pray For Them...

End of the report.