Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Talamasca ()
Date: January 04, 2008 09:32AM

When looking at the Jeremy Kyle Show, the one thing that leapt out was how un-Christian the Jesus Christians really are. I'm not qualified to rule on the 'mad Vs bad' debate, but with his whiskers and his wagging finger, poor old David McKay came across as an angry little dwarf; nothing more.

Noticeable by their absence were Jesus and God. Despite being given every opportunity to discuss his beliefs, McKay was silent on this. We heard about the alleged kidnap of a schoolboy, self-flagellation and masturbation. We didn't hear anything about working with the poor, the sick, etc.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: January 04, 2008 09:45AM

Time to stop playing games Dave and send some regular contact to Joe's mother, and do what you can to get your people out of there.

To "Bazza" I note you wrote this of me:
"But we know from ten years of dealing with Craig that he is not a friend, but an enemy who pretends to be a friend.
And he pretends to be interested in Jesus teachings when his only purpose is to tear it and us down. The problem is a spiritual one within himself which no amount of arguing will change. However we permit him to continue on this forum as an example of what happens to some people who follow Jesus and then turn away and reject the truths Jesus taught."

Tell me Bazza, have I ever met you? How do you anything about me? I note that Dave has banned me AGAIN, and still the accusations and slanderous comments continue and I am not permitted to respond to them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 09:45AM by apostate.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: January 04, 2008 03:45PM

"They'll have a great time with it over on the RR forum, but I have no doubt that your anger toward me that time was really anger toward God... when it should really be the devil that you get angry with when he tries to control you through fear."


Yes, David, we will have a great time with it. You know it's why thinking Christians have labelled you a cult. You continually claim that those who disagree with you or are angry with you are really angry at God. Because you are his agent, and the only truth is what you think. What you think is what God is saying, and anyone who opposes it is against God. And your enemies are everywhere, and they continue to question you, which you percieve as persecution. This is a paranoid delusion of Divine Authority.

Anyone who you percieve to be "your enemy" is an enemy of Jesus. If you were just thinking these things on your own, without setting up a cult with yourself as leader, nobody would bother, except to maybe section you.

But we do bother, because you have led young lives astray with your messianic delusions and your manipulative need for total control over a following.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: January 04, 2008 11:02PM

A bit of trivia which you probably already know.

Barack Obama, who won big last night in Iowa as first step for the Democratic Presidential nomination of the United States, has a Kenyan father. (Etnic group of Luo, also called Juluo and Joluo, which is the third largest ethnic group in Kenya.)

The world is changing with new awakenings, a new dawn, new hope among all the darkness, distraction and grief.

"The whole world will one day come to be regarded as one country, one race, one family."

This is something I have believed since I was a child....many, many years ago.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 11:19PM by Dogmother.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: yasmin ()
Date: January 05, 2008 12:11AM

Thank you Dogsmother for the information about Kenya. And definitely agree with Apostate ( by the way, I love your posts, Apostate!)Please Dave: as leader you have a responsibilty for your people. Dogsmother bravely offered to go to Kenya to help get Joe.Putting more people in danger may not be the best solution, but it would be good to know that you have put the safety of your people paramount and are in some way trying to get them safely out of the country.It would seem that in-fighting with the Quakers is of no importance in comparison.Yasmin

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2008 12:14AM by yasmin.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: January 05, 2008 12:25AM

Hear, hear, Yasmin! My sentiments entirely.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: January 05, 2008 03:54AM


Many of our friends and relatives are deeply concerned about the situation in Kenya at the moment.

We live in the middle of the most violent area, and people are dying in towns and villages around us (some from mob violence and some from live ammunition used by the police to quell the rioting). However, so far we have not been touched. As foreigners, most locals do not see us as the problem, since the dispute is between tribes within the country.

One of our members, however, is a Kikuyu, and we are deeply concerned for his safety. Local Kikuyus were given protective custody in the local police station for the first day or two, but then moved to a stronger police station in a larger town near here. We are all praying that he will be kept safe if the violence continues to grow.

Because the situation could change at a moment's notice, this report will probably be out of date by the time you receive it. And communication is such that we are only able to send it to a limited number of subscribers. The best way to get updates would be to check regularly with our website forum, at this link:


* * * *

Wow, what a busy month it was at Takatifu Gardens!

Christmas parties, gardening, computer classes, election observing - and now civil problems resulting from the elections!

With Cherry's gardening expertise, and a small army of volunteers, at least part of the gardens here have been transformed into well planned plots of blossoming bushes, beans, tomatoes and fruit trees. Our dichondra 'lawn' was not living up to expectation, with the hot sun and lack of rain, so we decided to transform the larger part of the area into something more practical - a bean plot! We also decided to plant in some garlic and onions as well, and they are all coming along nicely. They are good plants for areas with little rain.

Composting and mulching the garden also involved us doing some tidying up around the local area. Chewing sugar cane is a very big past time, and with most people just spitting out the remains on the ground (usually at the spot by the side of the road where they purchase it) there can often be very large piles of the remains left on the ground which can be pretty unsightly. So we took to the streets to collect, bringing in pickup loads of it to spread around the garden either to dig into the stony soil to help break it up, or to spread around on top of planted areas as mulch.

Towards the end of the month Dave and Cherry left us to continue their travels back to Australia. Their company and support was much appreciated.

On Christmas Eve we organised a games day for over 800 local orphans. Many volunteers made a special effort to be there that day to assist in the process. Sack races were by far the most successful activity for the children, though poisonball, basketball drills and three legged races were also appreciated.

Five of the international volunteers here in Kenya chose to be Election Observers during the general elections on December 27th. We were able to work close to home thankfully. While there was some tension during the counting of the votes (which ran late into the night) overall we did not notice any serious problems as far as rigging or intimidation of people. All the candidates and their agents were respectful of the democratic process and professional in conduct. It was a very long day for us however, having to be at polling stations by 5.30am, and the counting of ballots running until almost 2am! However it was a very interesting experience, and one we all felt was a helpful contribution to the community.

Unfortunately, however, in general terms, the elections have not been the democratic success that was hoped for. Amid allegations, and some evidence of rigging, the incumbant president, Kibaki, was re-elected to office. The opposition leader, Raila, maintains that he should have been the rightful winner. Opposition supporters feeling cheated of their victory, took to the streets in protest. Violent protests have ensued, with opposition supporters attacking Kikuyus (people of the same tribe as Kibaki) and protesters being shot as police and paramilitary attempt to control the situation.

Violence wasn't limited to the cities. Even our own market area became a riot scene minutes after the announcement of Kibaki's "victory". People with rocks stopped vehicles looking for Kikuyus to kill. Fortunately Kikuyus were able to seek the protection of local police without any being found by these mobs. A shop and a car belonging to a Kikuyu businessman were destroyed however. These Kikuyu people have been part of the local community for many years and are well known to the locals, which makes the attacks particularly shocking.

We are thankful that we have not been a target in the violence. But we may be affected by the lack of supplies, as there has been no movement on the roads for days, due to protestors setting up roadblocks. At this stage we have about three weeks' supply of food, full tanks of petrol, plenty of water, electricity and cooking gas. But we are already rationing phone communication, due to a shortage of phone credit.

We pray that Kibaki and Raila will negotiate rather than allow the problem to escalate.


Members in Kenya found it pretty near impossible to visit relatives for Christmas (although Christine had a nice visit with her parents!) However, elsewhere, most of our members were able to see their families sometime during the month.

Ulrike and Reinhard made a special trip to Germany, where they were able to each visit their parents and siblings, plus Reinhard's aunt, and Ulrike's grandmother.

Alf visited his mother and her partner on Christmas day, following a visit with his father and step-mother in the lead-up to Christmas. His sister and her family were also there for the Christmas Day visit.

Bob visited his mother and her partner in Manchester on Boxing Day (the day after Christmas).

Barry spent three days over Christmas with his family in Sydney, and Ross, who hasn't seen his family for about three months, is planning a trip to Melbourne near the end of January, so that he can see them.

The team in California was warmly welcomed by Jesse's family for Christmas celebrations.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: January 05, 2008 04:05AM


Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Please, can someone else share some nice scripture verses from the religious tradition of your choice? Something uplifting?

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: January 05, 2008 05:18AM

From the Baha'i Teachings: (By the way, Baha'is have no minister or leader, which, considering where Dave has led his people, is a very good proposition, don't you think? Folks thinking for themselves, what a unique concept.)

"All through the ages we see how blood has stained the surface of the earth; but now a ray of greater light has come, man's intelligence is greater, spirituality is beginning to grow, and a time is surely coming when the religions of the world will be at peace.

Let us leave the discordant arguments concerning outward forms, and let us join together to hasten forward the Divine Cause of unity, until all humanity knows itself to be one family, joined together in love.

I charge you all that each one of you concentrate all the thoughts of your heart on love and unity. When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace.

Thoughts of love are constructive of brotherhood, peace, friendship, and happiness.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2008 05:21AM by Dogmother.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Talamasca ()
Date: January 05, 2008 08:10AM

A quick glance at the Jesus Christians forum can be very revealing. There's actually very little on there about Jesus, or about Christianity.

What seems to permeate is a sneering hatred towards certain people. Threads are given titles such as "Lethal Liesel", "Is Craig Hateful?" and "Look Who's Stalking". In most cases question marks or inverted commas are added: a well-known trick that enables you to make a point while trying to distance yourself from it. In one sense it's very clever. But the more I see of this dishonest and downright nasty behavior, the more I realize this little group is about as far away from genuine Christianity as it's possible to be.

On the Jeremy Kyle Show a female Jesus Christian member sneered at a woman who had been abused by pedophiles in the Children of God cult from the age of 2, just because she dared point out similarities between David McKay (wasn't he in the Children of God cult?) and David Berg. Just how Christian is that?

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