Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: December 17, 2007 04:23AM

Malcolm Wesley WREST
Dear Hello,

Could you point out (e.g. sample "cut'n'paste"s ) some of the "exciting things" that are happening at the JC forum...sorry but I seem to have missed them!....(with thanks!...)

I think hello was talking not about one particular thing, but the recent people who have joined their forum. Three females in particular have joined, Kristie (Crazy Cat Lady), Joanne (crossed legs and head buried in her lap) and Kerrie (Second Life). The three of them should keep Dave busy with working out if they are moles or trolls, always being careful of offending them! They are so full of questions and enthusiasm, and are all so keen to spend some time with the Jesus Christians, it will keep him going for quite a while trying to work out if they are for real or not.

Here's the page they enter the stage:


Oh! ...................And Happy Two Hundred Pages!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2007 04:24AM by Blackhat.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: December 17, 2007 06:37AM

You edited my words to pieces David. That's not what I said, butthead. Here is my original post, from last August 5:

Following are my five main (generalized) points of objection to JC policy and procedure.

1) Witnessing to and agreeing to meet with minors who are "potentials" is wrong. Period. You have no business talking to any High Schooler who is not yet 18. Respect the rights and boundaries of the parents of these kids.

2) You say you work for love and not money. OK, so what is with all of the constant money-generating schemes? How many JCs live off of the dole? What is with all of the organ and body-fluid donation? Why do you sell David's books on the street? To whom does all of the money go, and who controls it?

Basically, how come it seems like everybody in the JCs has to forsake all exceot for David and Cherry?

3) It seems to met that you have put a legalistic over-emphasis on the red letters (Gal 2:16), and that you constantly negatively judge other Christians and churches by that standard. Your collective attitude and MO seems heavy on judgment and is highly provocative, but I feel no grace from you. (Jam 2:13).

4) (related to 3) You all generally seem to have nothing but contempt for those who would question you. Where are the fruits of the Spirit in what the world can see of the JCs? (Gal 5:19-26)

5) Ash and Joseph, when was the last time you called you mothers and told you that you love them?

You took my posts apart and reworded them to try and make me look stupid, not thinking I'd check up on things. You sure did mangle my words in order to try and cast me in the worst possible light. Anybody who actually looks up my posts per the dates and compares what I wrote to what you produced is going to see that you obviously altered the texts. Nice try, David.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2007 06:41AM by zeuszor.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Jack Oskar Larm ()
Date: December 17, 2007 06:47AM

If there's an issue with Dave's mum feeling/being violated by an outsider, there are laws to protect her.

I really don't understand all the fuss about this level of disclosure. It's inevitable that peripheral links to the central character of Dave will be brought up. I can accept that strict and sensitive protocols be followed to ensure that 'the fruit stays ripe' and that we don't hurt the tree. I suspect that Alice wants to speak out. If not, I'm sure she'll ask Brian and he'll respect her wishes. Failing that, it's an issue for our local forum moderators.

The new recruits are an interesting development. I can't help thinking that the JCs, who have exhibited high levels of distrust and paranoia (as recently revealed in Ross' letter), are now going into overdrive! No doubt Dave would have set the dial at 'Code Red' with the JK show. I imagine it's not dissimilar to that scene in Reservoir Dogs where the characters are pointing guns at each other - who can I trust? New recruits at this point in their journey will bring to the surface many dark times. Better set that dial - as Nigel Tufnell of Spinal Tap would say - all the way to ELEVEN!

I think this is an exciting time for the JCs. I'm not even going to mention the 'main star' of the show because, in many ways, I think his 'hero's journey' is stuck somewhere further back along the road. But I sincerely think this is an opportune time for 'younger' members to deal with their inner conflicts. The stew is getting very hot. It's a time to challenge old ways; to find a voice in the cacophony.

Tension can bring out the best in all of us. Failing that, it certainly reveals 'true' character...

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: December 17, 2007 06:49AM

Yesterday I made a grave mistake in mentioning the name of Lowe, even in jest.

My jab was a misplaced attempt at sarcasm, written with the intent of further stymie-ing DM's efforts to identify his anonymous critics. That is why I also referred to "Mr. Kyoo."

Obviously, this could have potentially placed the real Mr. Lowe in danger, though in my shortsightedness did not see this fact. I regret the error and beg the pardons of all concerned.

For the record: I have never met, encountered, or communicated at all with a David Lowe, and furthermore had never heard of such a person until McKay started writing of him.

Whoever you are, and wherever you are, Mr. Lowe, please forgive me. I meant no disrespect nor any harm.

No hard feelings, mates?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2007 06:58AM by zeuszor.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: December 17, 2007 01:16PM


Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure...

1Cr 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Cr 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Cr 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Luk 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.

The interesting thing to me about the above Psalm is that it says, "The wicked shall be turned into hell," and that it does not say "cast into hell" or "put into hell" etc. A different connotation, you see. Appropriate because it looks to me as if DM basically lives in his own little world of moral opposites: bad is good, no sense makes sense, all that. He lives in his own little hellish world of cowardice, fear induced by an ego run amok. DM probably knows what a phony he is better than anybody else. He just doesn't want other people to figure it out.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2007 01:26PM by zeuszor.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: December 17, 2007 11:30PM

Dear Ross, Robin, Roland,....and the other "old-timers" in the JC's,

As David's birthdays rolls around to mark off another year that he's just that much closer to Hell, I thought I'd shamelessly steal another golden passage poetically put, from "Dassi" (of the Krishna group in Hawai), to remind you that (despite what the "Captain" will no doubt assert!) you DON'T have to go "down" with the ship, when it finally starts sinking....

All the old timers have an elaborate set of excuses
and rationalizations for all of the inconsistencies.
A script for every doubt or crack in all the untruths.
Otherwise they have to face up to the fact
that their life and belief system is a sham.

The fear thing also kicks in ---
fear that you will commit spiritual suicide.
Maybe your whole life was all wrapped up in it.
Maybe all your friends and family are wrapped up in it.
To look at the truth becomes a huge and painful sacrifice.
I had to walk away from a few friends I really loved.

I too got involved at a young age.
At the time I did not realize how vulnerable I was.

"God" is far, far bigger than the pitiful little David you presently worship (by giving your lives to him....!)....a comforting thought, is it not???

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: December 18, 2007 07:47AM

From CBS online News - a different take on the WSJ article. (My italics)

Hospital Says No Thanks To Religious Kidney Donor

While Congress is grilling veterans' charities today on not being generous enough, the Wall Street Journal reports on the controversy surrounding a religious group accused of being a little too generous.

Ashwyn Falkingham, 23, is a member of a 30-member religious group called the Jesus Christians that, true to normal cult form, expects members to turn over their savings to the group and forsake family, friends and possessions. It also advocates donating kidneys to strangers.

Half of the group's members have done it. Falkingham wanted to do it too. He said it was a "simple thing that can help someone." And he's got a point. Nearly 75,000 people in the U.S. are waiting for kidney transplants.

But many hospitals aren't interested in donors who don't have established, personal relationships with the recipient, partly because they fear strangers might be secretly (and illegally) paid for their organs. They also worry these people might be psychologically disturbed or likely to back out.

After finding a recipient online through the website set up by the Jesus Christians' leader, David McKay, Falkingham flew to Toronto in March to meet with doctors and psychologists at a hospital there. They asked if he was coerced into this decision, and he said no.

But his parents disagreed. They were freaked out by the fact that Falkingham refused to attend a family Christmas gathering without at least one other group member, or that he wouldn't discuss his kidney donation plans without the 67-year-old McKay present. They wrote to transplant programs across the country and to the health minister's office in Ontario laying out their concerns.

The Toronto hospital cancelled his surgery and ruled out Falkingham as a donor. It wrote him explaining that he was motivated by the desire for publicity, it concluded, not altruism.

The recipient, who now needs kidney dialysis, was devastated. "I'm not saying that it was easy for the hospital," he said. "But they were more concerned about their reputation and everything else than worried about someone's life."


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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: December 18, 2007 08:30AM

Thank you Blackhat for that perceptive article....I am most impressed that you are able to locate such stories so promptly!! I notice that Roland Gianstefani became Roland "Phillips" in another recent story "inspired" yet again by the "selfless" donation of Kidneys on the part of the JC's (..."selfless" on the part of many individual JC's I would like to think, even while it is clearly just so much "heartless" organ farming (to buy notoriety!) on the part of David McKay)...

Presumably such alterations of the surname would make it more difficult to locate information about the JesusChristians in any search activities on the internet or elsewhere.....(or so they might hope..)...

What might be a suitable surname for David I wonder....(given that "Moses" has already been taken) help him better avoid us???

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I am still your friend Dave
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: December 18, 2007 11:16AM

It never ceases to amaze me how much my friend Dave can twist words. He has now made me, the most vocal opponent of Brian's posting of Alice's communication with him, out to be one of the strongest supporters of it. No matter what tune is played for you Dave... you just ain't gonna dance. I realise you need to say what you are saying in order to portray me in the worst possible light so that you can continue to enforce your continual excommunication of me and others. Can't have others thinking that someone over here is actually speaking in opposition to some action being taken against you can you? That would mean that there are actually individuals over here who can think independent thoughts and not be banned for doing so. And then if you follow that logic through to its conclusion it means that there is no organised mob carrying torches shouting "lynch him, lynch him"... then, next thing you know, "poof" goes your claims of persecution. No Dave, I opposed what Brian did simply because I thought it crossed a boundary, and I made reference to shimei simply as a way of pointing you subtly in a direction of how you could best respond to it. To quote the earlier reference: "perchance" God had sent such a stone throwing along. But no, you instead decided to react in anger and push away those who are actually in agreement with you on an issue, rather than reframe things in the manner of the subtle suggestion I sent your way.

Which brings me to another interesting musing about you, namely, it truly is about control for you. Because I have disagreed with you in other areas I am blackbanned, so much so that you cannot possibly tolerate an equal who can agree in areas and disagree in others... such is the world in which you live. I know from my time in the community that this is true, and continues to be true

By the way, I choose that word "friend" because it was word he tried to get me to deny when he rather nastily threw me and others out of the group. He sat there on the day asking me loudly if I was a "friend or an enemy". I continually repeated to his several questions that I was his friend. He got angry at that and called me a "pig". It struck me how important it was for him to frame things to himself and others that those who were most supportive of him, and who disagreed with him on certain issues, were no longer friends. Today he views acts of friendship from equals who may offer up some contructive criticism as the acts of an "enemy" pretending to be a friend.

Time to grow up Dave.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: December 18, 2007 01:49PM

Sadly, I've been asked to consider calling off the visit to Alice this week, because of the danger that it represents. Alice herself has asked that I not come by, and the whole family (including brothers outside of the state) is incensed at what Brian has done. It seems that they have visited the Rick Ross site and see the whackos over there as being far more dangerous than I would imagine them to be.

I have explained that I sincerely believe that Brian has no premeditated plans for violence, and thus a personal visit by Brian to Alice (much less a personal visit with a gun in his pocket) is very unlikely. I have tried to explain that Brian's danger is either that he will be manipulated into giving Alice's details to some other even crazier psycho, or that Brian will find himself in a situation where he becomes emotionally worked up (like happens to him so often) and then he will, if given the opportunity, do something violent because he has convinced himself, yet again, that he is ridding the world of a dangerous monster. Of course, when that happens, there are going to be a few people at the Rick Ross forum (most notably Malcolm, because he has been honest about his identity, but also David Lowe, because we have information which identifies him as Private Eyes) who could be charged with inciting Brian to do what he could so very easily do.

Brian's ability to justify himself for more and more lies and less and less ethical behaviour is consistent with psychopathic behaviour. I wonder how low he is going to have to sink before others besides Craig officially decide to wash their hands of him. I should think that even Rick Ross himself (who is famous for red-lining it with regard to criminal behaviour) must be having some second thoughts by now.


Geez, David, don't have a fit. It's not like I keep calling you mother up asking for more and more information and bugging her all day and stuff like that. I only called her that one time, as did somebody else (a concerned mother) and she (your mom) was very friendly, straightforward, and did not seem put upon at all to speak with me or the other mom. She was very open, as a matter of fact, very plainspoken. She knows what a creep you are too, and I do not blame her for not wanting you around.

David, please get over it; nobody (least of all myself,) wants anybody to get hurt, physically or otherwise. And I am not a psychopath. I am no physical or mortal danger to you or anybody else. I do not own any weapons at all. Nobody is talking about physical threats or violence except for yourself and your drones. I do think that you ought to be stopped, however, and that your group members are in danger as long as they are with you. I believe that you and your group are headed down the road of self-destruction. I think that you ought to be locked up and put away somewhere, segregated from society at large.

I am just some guy with a computer, some connections, and a searing conscience that tells me that your group is particularly volatile, in doctrine and in practice. How many times do I have to spell it out for you? I think of you like I might think of some known sexual predator, some child molester, who was at large. I think that society ought to be educated about and protected from malignant personalities like yourself. I think that you are an intrinsically evil man and an agent of the Enemy. I have always thought so, and that chat I had with your mother only confirmed my intuitions. She said that you "are led by the Enemy" too. She's wise to you David. It seems like most people eventually get wise to you and leave your association.

Hey, you UK viewers: did they show the part on the JK Show where David was raising his hard and asking, "Who masturbates? Who masturbates?" I saw it with my own eyes. Did that make it on the show?

I leave you tonight with a Scripture:

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 01:58PM by zeuszor.

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