Zueszor, at risk of upsetting you again. I do not think it is appropriate for you to be speaking with Dave's mother. There is nothing to be gained from doing so, apart from Dave reframing the contact in a negative light. I also do not think his children would appreciate you drawing their grandmother into this when they have opted to remain out of things. I am fairly confident that if you were up front with her regarding the nature of the debate and the forum her communication with you would be posted on she would probably not be so forthcoming with information. I am aware that Dave may engage in such behavior, but I have to state quite strongly that I definately do not support this action you have taken.

Did you seek permission from her BEFORE posting her comments on an internet forum for the world to see?

Would you like Dave to visit your mother, and ask directive questions about your childhood, and then to post the interaction on his forum? Somehow, I do not think so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 06:36AM by apostate.

This was done with the blessing and under the counsel of a couple of Concerned Mothers, who of course will remain anonymous, Mr. Lowe. We know what we are doing. And yes, I told her exactly what I was going to do, that I was going to write a kind of article about it. She did not protest, and was quite open and frank.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 06:47AM by zeuszor.

You ought to call your mom, or at least send her a Christmas card, David.

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zeuszor
This was done with the blessing and under the counsel of a couple of Concerned Mothers, who of course will remain anonymous, Mr. Lowe.

Why do you call me "Mr. Lowe"?

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zeuszor
We know what we are doing.

With respect, I am not so sure.

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zeuszor
And yes, I told her exactly what I was going to do, that I was going to write a kind of article about it. She did not protest, and was quite open and frank.

"exactly" and "kind of" seem to be in opposition to one another here Zueszor. This reminds of a time Dave wrote a book (Worst of Woomera) which exposed the back ground and family life of some refugees in Australia, placing some family members at risk. Dave also claimed to have been given "permission" to write what he wrote. On further examination it became apparent that he did not inform those giving the information regarding the FULL exposure their story telling may receive. Does she have access to this forum? Has she been given the URL? Is she aware that potentially thousands of people are going to hear her talking badly about her son? Somehow, I do not think so.

I truly do not think you have done the right thing here in posting this open letter to Dave, as it is, I think, quite nasty, underhanded, and emotive. As far as I am concerned you walk alone with this.

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apostate

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zeuszor
This was done with the blessing and under the counsel of a couple of Concerned Mothers, who of course will remain anonymous, Mr. Lowe.

Why do you call me "Mr. Lowe"?

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zeuszor
We know what we are doing.

With respect, I am not so sure.

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zeuszor
And yes, I told her exactly what I was going to do, that I was going to write a kind of article about it. She did not protest, and was quite open and frank.

"exactly" and "kind of" seem to be in opposition to one another here Zueszor. This reminds of a time Dave wrote a book (Worst of Woomera) which exposed the back ground and family life of some refugees in Australia, placing some family members at risk. Dave also claimed to have been given "permission" to write what he wrote. On further examination it became apparent that he did not inform those giving the information regarding the FULL exposure their story telling may receive. Does she have access to this forum? Has she been given the URL? Is she aware that potentially thousands of people are going to hear her talking badly about her son? Somehow, I do not think so.

I truly do not think you have done the right thing here in posting this open letter to Dave, as it is, I think, quite nasty, underhanded, and emotive. As far as I am concerned you walk alone with this.

The Mr. Lowe bit was an attempt at sarcasm, Mr. Kyoo.

Do you want to see McKay exposed and stopped, or not?

I'm sure that we'll be hearing all about it from Dr. Evil's camp soon.

I told McKay's mother that I was researching her son's biography and that I was going to write a kind of article about it, but did not elaborate, and she did not ask any details nor protest. She said that she was happy to speak with me and was very forthcoming.

Emotive? Good, that's what I was going for.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 07:32AM by zeuszor.

I have a couple of serious questions about the Jesus Christians, given David McKay's previous membership of the Children of God cult.

Are there any children currently in the Jesus Christians?

And if so, are the authorities aware of this, and are they looking into it, to make sure these kids are safe?

I'm particularly mindful of the incident when a young boy was found in a tent with two Jesus Christians, after having running away from home. I know the police were involved in this and several arrests were made, but I can't recall how many convictions were secured.

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zeuszor
The Mr. Lowe bit was an attempt at sarcasm, Mr. Kyoo.

Why the sarcasm?

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zeuszor
Do you want to see McKay exposed and stopped, or not?

Not at the expense of principles of fairplay and transparency

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zeuszor
I'm sure that we'll be hearing all about it from Dr. Evil's camp soon.

I am sure you will. And if he complains about it... I will agree with him.

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zeuszor
I told McKay's mother that I was researching her son's biography and that I was going to write a kind of article about it, but did not elaborate, and she did not ask any details nor protest. She said that she was happy to speak with me and was very forthcoming.

How can she protest on something you did not elaborate on? Why is it her responsibilty to ask for ALL the details. Seems a bit comparable to the onus being on the one taking out an insurance policy to read the fine print because the company ain't going to tell them the possible negative fallout or outcomes. I see no evidence of INFORMED consent in this action.

There is a saying that goes something like "In seeking to overthrow darkness beware that you do not become it".

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zeuszor
Emotive? Good, that's what I was going for.

Well it seems you have hit your target. Why seek to be simply emotive? All it generates is further emotive responses and off it goes again. All this action will do is reinforce Dave's claims of persecution to his followers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 07:53AM by apostate.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 08:04AM by zeuszor.

Zeuszor and Apostate, I strongly believe motives are important in all actions we take, and we--our eclectic group of ex-JCs-- all act out of good and righteous motives, which stem from concerns for present members as well as our own need for healing. That's what this forum is all about. Healing wounds which were inflicted by a man who has no right to play such havoc with people's lives.

What struck me most about Zeuszor's account of talking to Dave's mother was that her son has not been able to touch her in anyway with his paranoia. There seemed to have been no holding back, and it sounds like she was waiting for someone to telephone her to ask questions about Dave. Zeuszor, please tell me if I am wrong.

Apostate, what is wrong with delving into Dave's background? I, for one, thought it interesting as well as emotionally painful thinking about her. She is not being exploited by us. I certainly would not stand for it. Zeuszor is not selling the story to the tabloids. This is our forum and we ought to love Dave's mother, as she seems to be one of us.

What struck me most about Zeuszor's account of talking to Dave's mother was that her son has not been able to touch her in anyway with his paranoia. There seemed to have been no holding back, and it sounds like she was waiting for someone to telephone her to ask questions about Dave. Zeuszor, please tell me if I am wrong.

That's exactly right. She was very open, very frank, told me everything in a very matter-of fact way, and she was not surprised in the least that people had eventually started calling her and asking about David. Thanks for your support.