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Dogmother
Zeuzsor, that is a remarkable coincidence about DM rushing to see his mother almost on the same day as you talked to her. Mother's Day and Christmas all roled into one. Great for Mama--we hope--and may God bless her.

Mothers always love to see their kids. Hopefully, Dave is going to spring for airline tickets all around and every son and daughter gets to visit their parents. We are sorry about Ulrike's mother passing away earlier this year and send our condolences.

Great, Dave. You're doing the right thing, for once, and we praise you for it. What's your favorite dish? I bet your mother has already started to prepare it.

I am further sorry to hear about the recent passing of Grace's father. How you spoken with your mom lately, Grace?

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Malcolm
(...at considerable personal risk of being subject to legal action being undertaken on behalf of David McKay...)

GO, ZEUSOR Go!!! Atta boy! Sic' em...Do your worse....Do WORSE than your worst!...now do it even more worse...but GO ZEUSOR!!


(...ummm...are you sufficiently "incited" now?)

Like a starving pit bull! (Zeuszor sinks his teeth in deeply and pulls his head back and forth, tearing flesh and ripping sinews, the intruder screams in pain...)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2007 12:51PM by zeuszor.

I am a brother of the Infamous David McKay

I am a first time reader of the forum, and first time poster. I've guessing it poses a dilema for the forum if I were to say that the LETTER TO DAVE was full of falsehoods. Because if you believe the letter, you would have to believe I am a religious honest person(pious), and therefore discredit the letter based on my statement that it contains falsehoods. If you don't believe what I say, then you would have to discredit the implication that Dave's other brothers were all devout Christians. Either way, it takes away a valuable piece of ammunition in the forum's war against Dave.

It's not that I want to spoil your war against Dave, I just want for me and my mother to be left in private. I'm slowly learning the rules of the forum.
Rule #1 - If it supports my point of view, it's absolute gospel, and it doesn't matter how I got it or from whom
Rule #2 - If it contradicts my point of view, it's a lie. (and sometimes very difficult to get past the moderator)

and we--our eclectic group of ex-JCs-- all act out of good and righteous motives

I find many of the posts you make against my brother amusing, and it seems there is no end to the dirt that can be found against the JCs. So I ask myself, why suddenly is this LETTER TO DAVE so valuable in your war against the JCs. Hmm, could it be only in that it is truly vicious, and truly hurts Dave? righteous motives? I am NOT amused. Especially that you use my mother as a tool for this vicious attack.

I'm trying to visualize WWJD. Just can't see him sitting at a computer anonymously cheering on a person for exploiting an old lady like that. It's amazing that of all the posts jabbing at Dave the letter, not a single post even hinted at the possibility that some of it might not be truthful. As much as you've cheered Brian on, if I were him, I would come up with something even more sensational next time. After all, no one on the forum will question it's validity. I want that next sensational post to come from a different source than my mother or myself. Seems the things you wanna jab Dave about the most, are the things in the letter that are untruths, and have absolutely nothing to do with your problem with his 'cult'.

My brother and I have agreed to disagree, and other than an annual social visit to my mother, we stay on opposite sides of the fence. That does NOT put me 'on your side' as you catagorize my mother.

One of my other brothers has expressed serious concerns over my mothers health since she became EXTREMELY upset and unsettled when he read the forum posting to her over the phone. BACK OFF!!!

I don't plan on posting anymore, but I think I will check in on the forum for a few more days, and see if I can figure out who really does have righteous motives and who doesn't.

David's brother:

OK. I replied to you personally, but now I see your postings have been published. So I will reply to you publicly as I have to you personally.

I have nothing to do with any contact with your mother by another member of this forum. I uphold the rules of this forum.

I don't believe anything good can come of bringing in personal things which are not already in the public arena, and that goes for your mother and all her other children.

If you have disputes with your brother David which you would like to bring to this forum, please do so.

I will certainly not be pursuing either yourself or your mother, just as I would not like anyone else to be pursing my own family members.

Any comments I have made about Brian's contact with your mother have been dispassionate observations, not endorsements.

The Jesus Christians have had an enormous impact upon many families, and I am sure this episode has brought home to David that when you do this to families, even your own family may eventually bear some of the cost. I personally would not have done it, but it's done now, and all you can do is look at the lessons to be learned from it.

aghast;

I am sorry to hear the effect of Zeusor's post on you and your mother. I would also like to put up my hand to disagree with dragging in people who do not wish to be involved in this forum, and I am saddened Zeusor that you would do that, especially if you have been not completely truthful.

We have to be careful to hate the sin, but not the sinner, including when it is in regard to Dave and the JC's; and frankly, I have not been posting much lately because the forum has degenerated somewhat.

culmalleus:

I agree.

It is important not to attack people personally or have any kind of vendetta.

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

It seems to me that Dave McKay has hurt his own family, along with the many other families hurt by his behavior through his group.

And whatever pain the McKay family has experienced should not be used here to fuel any argument.

To the extent that the McKay family wishes to be heard publicly, should be their choice.

sorry for the dual posts, but, when I made a post, and in the hours I wait to see it show up I see other posts show up with later times, I made the assumption my initial post was screened as being to harsh.

Aghast,

I will make the assumption that you are genuine and are one of Dave's brothers. Even if you are not, your post does provide people with an opportunity to express their true feelings on this matter.

Firstly, I would like to state that I am not David Lowe. That is just one of the many lies Dave tells about posters on this forum.

Also this thread tends to be a mix of factual information, people venting and satire. After a while you get to know which is which. Unfortunately, the JC's often tend to lack the critical ability to know the difference.

However, in regards to your post. I will claim some responsibly for Zeuszor's actions and apologise for the distress it may have caused your Mother. Some time ago I passed on some biographical information on the McKay family that would have allowed Zeuszor to be able to contact her. He was asked not to use the information and to his credit, he sat on the information for probably 5 months.

The purpose of obtaining the information was to have a professional researcher contact your Mother and possibly other family members to obtain strictly biographical information on Dave's background. Where he went to school, worked, etc.

I believe another person conducting research contacted your Mother and I can only assume Zeuszor became frustrated and decided to make his own inquiries. The comments should not have been posted on Rick Ross and the information he gained ie your Mother doesn't like you type comments, was not the type of information that we were hoping to gain.

I assume if Dave continues to operate in a similar vein to what he does now, it would come as no surprise to me if your Mother and other members of the family received many calls from journalists and researchers. I believe Dave has been lucky up to now, because journalists tend to be lazy and/or work to tight deadlines. Also people are becoming better informed and prepared to stand up to him.

I am not trying to excuse Zeuszor's actions, but they can be understood in light of Dave's continued efforts to paint him as lunatic intent on killing Dave and now his family. He simply is a person concerned about how Dave's behavior has affected others and has OCD. His OCD sometimes gets the better of him, but he means well. I agree that he should back off your Mother and suggest that maybe you recommend Dave backs off Zeuszor as well.

Aghast, your post is understandable and the correct way to behave towards your lovely, elderly mother.

This said, the cruelest deed of all came from your brother Dave and his reaction has left many of us aghast.

Why in the world would Dave want to distress his mother by pointing out to her she made a mistake? Reading to her a posting on the phone and surely slanting it with his frightful paranoia? How can she possible comprehend she made such an error simply by praying on the phone with other mothers? Why does Dave feel he needs to control her when her instincts as a human being and as a Christian are beyond reproach?

I agree with Private Eye that contact with Mrs. McKay should have been solely left to the mothers, but in Zeuzsor's defence I have to say that I know him to be a respectful and sensitive man who has a most loving relationship with his own mother. That is a good sign, is it not? Zeuzsor would not treat anyone's mother in a way he does not want his mother to be treated.

And there is the difference. Motherhood is universal and does not have to defend itself.

Isn't that what the grandmother said on the Jeremy Kyle show after Dave defamed and ridiculed her on his forum?

Two wrongs of course don't make a right. I propose a Truth of Peace and Goodwill to us all for the Holidays in honor of Mrs. McKay and all our mothers throughout the world. We are in this time and space together for a reason, teacher and pupil at all times.

Aghast,
I am sorry your mother has been caused distress, and hope she is feeling better. (By the way on a practical note, when someone first joins the forum, everyones' posts are individually moderated,and hence delayed for about the first ten(?) posts, to stop spam; after that the posts tend to go on faster:just thought that might explain the delay in your post appearing on the forum).
Agree with the many others who feel that posting your mothers' comments on this forum was inappropriate, and my guess is that Zeusor also did not intend to cause her distress, but was not thinking about consequences.
I doubt whether there will ever be journalists attempting to contact your mother,though private eye thinks it is a possibility: if they do however, and she does not wish to talk to them, the best way to end the conversation is a quick,"No Comment".In my experience, some journalists are ethical and some are not.
Again , I am very sorry that your family and mother has been hurt by this.

Wishing you, your family, and all those here the best of the season,Yasmin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 01:45AM by yasmin.

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private eyes

However, in regards to your post. I will claim some responsibly for Zeuszor's actions and apologise for the distress it may have caused your Mother. Some time ago I passed on some biographical information on the McKay family that would have allowed Zeuszor to be able to contact her. He was asked not to use the information and to his credit, he sat on the information for probably 5 months.

The purpose of obtaining the information was to have a professional researcher contact your Mother and possibly other family members to obtain strictly biographical information on Dave's background. Where he went to school, worked, etc.

I believe another person conducting research contacted your Mother and I can only assume Zeuszor became frustrated and decided to make his own inquiries. .

Privateeye, R U ritin a buk man? Iz dat ur aim?