Just watched the Jeremy Kyle show, and I got to say:

Dave, dave, dave. Why so defensive?? Seriously, it was embarrassing to watch.

It certainly didn't look like a planned exit, as you portrayed it afterwards, when you tossed a tanty and stormed out in a huff. I am amazed that you would try and attribute your tantrum to a leading from God. I thought Liesel did an excellent job of fronting you, and that both you and Cherry were shown to be both deceptive and evasive.

Thanks for the update SWord. I'll be going through these all day. A few disturbing quotes right off the bat:

From "A Gun to Your Head"

The gun of God's righteousness is pointing at your head right now. You will pay for your greed, your selfishness, your pride, your laziness, your stubborn refusal to change. God is lovingly and patiently waiting for you to come to your senses and repent. But he will not wait forever. Each time someone dies, it is a reminder to the rest of us that we could be next. Loving God or not, death is out there waiting for us. It is real and it is inevitable. And after death comes the judgment.

[jesuschristians.net]

From "The politics of Suicide"

Political regimes face overwhelming frustration when they impose one punishment after another onto dissidents, but all to no avail. Their frustration can easily get out of hand. If torture fails to achieve submission, then dictators often find themselves pushed to the point of murdering their own people.

This willingness by dissidents, to die before accepting defeat, is a powerful political tool amongst the oppressed peoples of the world. When the oppressed do not have the military might or will to destroy their enemies, they are often able to achieve more by destroying themselves. Their willingness to die, and even to push the button or pull the rope themselves highlights the ultimate powerlessness of their opponents.

[jesuschristians.net]

From "Deathbed Conversions"


It is only in the face of death that we are able to truly appreciate God and Truth. Most, if not all, of our lives are lived in a prison called life. All our talk about God is so saturated with thoughts about life, about the people who inhabit this world of time and space, and about what they think of us, that we rarely ever escape from that prison into the arms of God, where mortal life is seen for what it really is.


When we stop running away from death, and reach out to it as one of the most important experiences of life, we will start to change in powerful and dramatic ways. Daydreams about dying and facing God are probably the deepest form of prayer that we can experience, and they should highlight every day of our lives. Work at it. And when you do, you will see what true "conversion" is all about.

From "No Pain, No Gain"

In the midst of all this, we seem to have forgotten that suffering is an inescapable part of life in the real world. Many of us continue to search for a world where there will be no pain, no suffering, and no death. We run away from and rebel against anything that seeks to bring us back to this reality.

Learning to suffer starts at birth (the baby's first test of endurance), and it should continue throughout life. Everyone must learn to cope with little pains in positive ways when they are young, so that they can manage greater sufferings later in life. Parents who overly protect their children hinder their children's maturation process. We all need to learn how to deal with pain in order to become adults. We need to make mistakes, and learn from them, in order to become stronger and wiser. Avoiding mistakes and the pains associated with them (by withdrawing from the battle) keeps us forever immature.

There's a real undercurrent of negativity in these writings, and this subtle assumption that life is all pain and suffering. Allusions to death, suffering, self-mortification all over the place. Thius stuff ias just replete with subtle references to death, martyrdom, suffering. I read no joy, or optimism in this stuff, only cynicism and a condescending attitude.

From a Reachout Trust pamphlet from 2002:

"A further area of concern is the constant references to their willingness to die for what they believe. Examples include:

We see that the answer lies in personal attitudes... individuals with a commitment to fight hate with love, and fight fear with faith.

People who want to learn more than they want to get an education.

People who want to be productive more than they want a paid job.

People who want to grow daily in self-discipline, in sensitivity to the needs of others, and in a willingness to lay down their lives to see God's government changing the hearts and lives of others around them.

Would you like to be a part of this? If so, please contact us today.

It used to say, "...a part of this army of martyrs, then please write to us today." DM must have edited that volatile reference to martyrdom out.

[jesuschristians.net]

Another reference to death:

"Fear of death is what gives the bosses their power! How long do you think you can survive without eating? Maybe a month or two! OK, would you rather have one month of freedom or a lifetime of slavery? Anything that isn't worth living for isn't worth dying for!"

[www.comcen.com.au] "

I'll keep working on this this afternoon; these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 04:40AM by zeuszor.

Quote
DarkEyedWhich
Hiya xx

We have a morning chat show here in England called The Jeremy Kyle Show, and he had the founder of the JC's on there and people who'd escaped it, and some people who are still members.

That David bloke is a grade A loony toon!.

He said to an ex member..."Wasn't Jesus persecuted too?"...and the ex member replied "But David, you're NOT Jesus!"...and it was only then that it dawned on me, he really thinks he's something doesn't he!.

Jo xx

I'm not an ex-member. I met them as a group once in 2002 and thought them so disturbing I have monitored them ever since.

But I am glad, however, that I said something that got you to think. I waited for years for the opportunity to tell DM off to his face. DM clearly has some kind of grand, messianic delusions. Why does he talk about martyrdom in his writings so much, if I am wrong?

YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING YET, MCKAY. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT BAD PRESS IS.

THE MORE YOU TIGHTEN YOUR GRIP ON YOUR CULT, MCKAY, THE MORE OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN WILL SLIP THROUGH YOUR FINGERS.

ALREADY YOUR WORLD IS CRUMBLING AROUND YOU. YOU ARE NO LONGER IN CONTROL. CHECKMATE!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 05:01AM by zeuszor.

Quote
DarkEyedWhich
Hiya xx

We have a morning chat show here in England called The Jeremy Kyle Show, and he had the founder of the JC's on there and people who'd escaped it, and some people who are still members.

That David bloke is a grade A loony toon!.

He said to an ex member..."Wasn't Jesus persecuted too?"...and the ex member replied "But David, you're NOT Jesus!"...and it was only then that it dawned on me, he really thinks he's something doesn't he!.

Jo xx

With all due respect DAW-
today you saw Sue - cult member- harangue and SNEER at a woman who had been at the mercy of pedophiles for twelve years. You saw Dave- cult leader- become aggressive and try to bully ANYONE that so much as disagreed with him- that he thought he could get away with......and the definitive moment of the show was Brian making a joke!?
Maybe you should join the JC forum. Word of advice.... change your name first.... they don't see past appearances.
Raise your issues with them first.... they love ' unthinking' people.....

Quote
hello

Quote
DarkEyedWhich
Hiya xx

We have a morning chat show here in England called The Jeremy Kyle Show, and he had the founder of the JC's on there and people who'd escaped it, and some people who are still members.

That David bloke is a grade A loony toon!.

He said to an ex member..."Wasn't Jesus persecuted too?"...and the ex member replied "But David, you're NOT Jesus!"...and it was only then that it dawned on me, he really thinks he's something doesn't he!.

Jo xx

With all due respect DAW-
today you saw Sue - cult member- harangue and SNEER at a woman who had been at the mercy of pedophiles for twelve years. You saw Dave- cult leader- become aggressive and try to bully ANYONE that so much as disagreed with him- that he thought he could get away with......and the definitive moment of the show was Brian making a joke!?
Maybe you should join the JC forum. Word of advice.... change your name first.... they don't see past appearances.
Raise your issues with them first.... they love ' unthinking' people.....

That wasn't a joke. I was SO not kidding. David is NOT Jesus, nor does he have ANY good fruit to show for his life and ministry. He is a total snake, "the accuser of the brethren," a typical wolf in sheeps clothing, a half-assed writer and businessman/cult leader (I heard the man whose family died in Guyana after the show, over dinner refer to DM as a "fartwhistle") and furthermore, all he has to show for himself before the world is thorns and bitter fruit. Cut DAW some slack, won't you?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 05:42AM by zeuszor.

Hi Brian-
I know that you're very caring and serious. The truth is always funny- that's why the audience laughed- and you're a brave and lovely person- who isn't a afraid to stand up to a bully.
What I should have said was' making the audience laugh' by telling the truth.
However- what really stood out was Sue SNEERING at a woman who as a child had grown up in The Children Of God- and then ganging up with Dave to intimidate and harangue her- as well as trying to talk over her ( Sue).

Quote
hello
Hi Brian-
I know that you're very caring and serious. The truth is always funny- that's why the audience laughed- and you're a brave and lovely person- who isn't a afraid to stand up to a bully.
What I should have said was' making the audience laugh' by telling the truth.
However- what really stood out was Sue SNEERING at a woman who as a child had grown up in The Children Of God- and then ganging up with Dave to intimidate and harangue her- as well as trying to talk over her ( Sue).

The same thing that'll make you laugh will make you cry, sweetheart.

I'm working on some new scans now-your eyes will pop out when you see this stuff.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 07:08AM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor
... nor does he have ANY good fruit to show for his life ...

From my observations, he did manage to bring several beautiful people into this world by the seed of his loins. It may have been 'accidental' on his behalf, but they are 'good fruit'.

Point taken. Thanks. I find that it's better, though, to leave his children out of it, for the most part.

But, I think, the fact that most of these "fruit of David's loins" do not want to be associated with their father at all speaks volumes, don't you? Most of the McKay's children haven't spoken to or about him in years.

I am sure that they are nice people, DM's kids, but it seems that they have more or less divorced themselves from their pasts and parents. This smells like rotten fruit to me. It also Biblically disqualifies DM from being any kind of Church leader:

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


He's not even in control of his own children his own "house", so what makes him think that he has the right to control others' children? He needs to go make amends with the fruit of his loins before he can have any kind of credible ministry. As it is, he has got nothing, NOTHING but bad fruit to show for his life.

Actually, on second thought, I'll not post those scans. They are graphic old COG smut and not directly relevant to the JC discussion, more like background data.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 08:15AM by zeuszor.

From "Ananiases"

We need to make these people aware that it is a privilege to even be considered as a potential disciple. We need to have the confidence to deal with greed, pride, fear, and dishonesty, if the Spirit is telling us that it is time to act.

This is particularly true when you get several people making moves to join at the same time. You need to make a bit of a spiritual race out of it, with the last person across the finish line being expelled. What I mean by that is that you look at how much the two, three, or more new disciples are hungering after the truth, and you eliminate the one who seems to be the least hungry. In fact, you could even include some of the older disciples in that kind of a competition.

Remember, that if you make an example of a few slackards, it will pay dividends in those who are left. If you don't, then what will happen is that they will each look at what the others have gotten away with, and they'll add everyone else's bad habits and sins to their own personal sins, and we'll end up with an army full of self-willed, rebellious trouble-makers.

This is not a holiday camp. It is an army, and we're involved in a war. There will be casualties. There will be costs. And for those who survive, there will be victories. But if anyone wants to be a part of this army, then they need to get it clear that they must obey orders.

(Italics added by myself.)

[jesuschristians.net]

From "A Martyr Complex:"

The more good we do secretly, the more persecution we are going to get. (John15:18-21) The prince of this world (Satan) senses our commitment to God and love. If our actions communicate love and an absence of fear, persecution is a natural by-product. And if we do anything to make that persecution known, it will lead to more persecution, because the world hates martyrs.

So do not be ashamed to take up your cross and follow Jesus. You can, through your persecution, bring glory to your heavenly Father as Jesus did, and you will not be guilty of robbing glory for yourself by doing so.

[jesuschristians.net]

From "Why So Much Persecution?"

So we have, in fact, achieved a greatness (or authority) which is disproportionate to our size. Our authority is that of Jesus himself, of whom it was said, "He spoke as one who had authority, and not as one of the scribes or Pharisees."

When we go in the name of Jesus (i.e. backed up by what he said, and not just saying "Lord, Lord"), we have this same authority, as he promised we would have. Kings and armies are forced to hide from the dazzling power of that Light which we hold forth.

[jesuschristians.net]