Hi everyone,
yes Malcolm- for David to get treatment or to admit that he is delusional would be close to a miracle. Though the difference between myself and Brian is that- as I understand it- Brian sees Dave as evil- whereas I regard his delusional state - ie- an illness- is what inspires him to do ' evil' deeds.
Though Malc- I'd be really interested in finding out- when Dave lies- does his group genuinely believe him- or does Dave explain to them that he's going to lie and they all agree to go along with it- ' for the greater good '.

Great question, Hello. This is something I have been wondering myself.

What I mean to say- is for example- the whole racism incident. I have all the emails to prove that I had nothing to do with it and according to both AlAnthony and Glenn- Dave is fully aware. So- are the rest of the JC's aware- but are happy to go along with the lie and misrepresent the issue to sincere people like Josh and Mandy? It's that type of behaviour that undermines all of their other efforts- and is why they're branded a cult and deeply unchristian. After all- people will know you by your actions towards others- and their's are deeply un- Christian. Dave is a liar- and the official JC position is that it is fine.
It's sad that out of all the JC's no one seeks the truth or has even had the courage to ask me for the facts. If any one of the UK team wanted to meet me they could look in my account and see that none of the emails have been doctored. Or I could fwd the emails onto them if they asked. ' Seek and ye shall find '.
If they liked I could also fwd them Nick's air tickets. It really made us laugh to learn that we were supposedly at the Jeremy Kyle show- i've never been to Manchester in my life and Nick wasn't even in the country. The first we even knew about the show were emails from AlAnthony and then a message from Brian the day before saying he was in the UK.
And poor old Glenn- he was such a supporter of the JC's- he certainly never contacted me with concerns about Al. Dave lies and lies and lies.

Quote
hello
Hi everyone,
yes Malcolm- for David to get treatment or to admit that he is delusional would be close to a miracle. Though the difference between myself and Brian is that- as I understand it- Brian sees Dave as evil- whereas I regard his delusional state - ie- an illness- is what inspires him to do ' evil' deeds.
Though Malc- I'd be really interested in finding out- when Dave lies- does his group genuinely believe him- or does Dave explain to them that he's going to lie and they all agree to go along with it- ' for the greater good '.

Hap Wotilla, an ex-COG member who was an early member of that group, was close to MO and was in COG leadership, on David Berg:

"I think he believed whatever he felt, whatever he thought, whatever his inclination was, that that was God. Even if he was drunk at the time, that that was the Lord. "Well, I did it, so it must be the Lord!" I don't think he left the door open to the fact that the Devil could be speaking to him and leading him into any of these areas at all."

And I'll remind you of the "Divine Authority" piece also. DM absolutely believes that whatever he says, is true. This is my opinion. The way he is manipulating these young people's realities is astounding. Like I heard on Seinfeld one time, George said, "It's not a lie if you believe it."

He's not "lying" because he actually thinks he's right and that WE'RE the ones who are lying. Projection games, you see. I have personally observed this man and how casually and flippantly he presents himself, his confident and superior air as he attacks others' characters and tears them down. Anybody that says a word against David is a bad person. You'll see this attitude too, when the Kyle show is broadcast. But I have sat ten feet away from him and I am convinced of this: that he absolutely believes every word of that jive that he comes up with and thinks that he is just okey-dokey; we're the muddled ones for doubting him, in his mind. Signing off,

B



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2007 01:44PM by zeuszor.

Hi everyone,
yes Malcolm- for David to get treatment or to admit that he is delusional would be close to a miracle. Though the difference between myself and Brian is that- as I understand it- Brian sees Dave as evil- whereas I regard his delusional state - ie- an illness- is what inspires him to do ' evil' deeds.
Though Malc- I'd be really interested in finding out- when Dave lies- does his group genuinely believe him- or does Dave explain to them that he's going to lie and they all agree to go along with it- ' for the greater good '.


For another thing--you put the word "evil" in quotes, as if you think that that is some arbitrary descriptor of DM's state of being.

Frankly, yes, I don't just believe that DM does evil things-I believe that he is a person who is evil at his core. Let me state it unambiguously.

Do you believe that good and evil are cosmic absolutes, that right and wrong exist, or is it all relativistic in your estimation?

Look, I won't go too far off topic or go into some long, frilly philosophical discourse about "good and evil" as absolutes or abstractions. You put the word "evil" in quotes as if it's some vague concept. Maybe I am thinking too black and white here, and I realize that life a lot of times is "gray, " so to speak, but I just wanted to make the point: evil is real, however you define it and however it manifests itself. It's like pornography: you know it when you see it.

Later.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2007 01:43PM by zeuszor.

[www.culteducation.com]

Wanted to bring this video out again. Watch this. The similarities between these two groups are as amazing as the differences are obvious. Cult Leader 101 stuff.

Please, if you that I am going too far in some sense, I can constructive criticism and am a reasonable person. Email me privately if you have concerns about my presence. I have never tried to hide anything here.

It is just that I feel that it is important to keep this discussion thread going and not let things get stale.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2007 02:40PM by zeuszor.

Hey Zeuszor thanks for being so open to take constructive criticism. Likewise, I always appreciate constructive feedback, even if it includes criticism.

However, I thought you would have had enough criticism from this fellow. Without getting it from us:

"He is an articulate and pedantic fellow who can dance around the point of a pin as well as anyone".

Journalist, Jeff Corbett from the Newcastle Herald describing Dave McKay on the 7 July 2004.

Speaking of the Herald. Corbett asked some questions of Dave on the 8 July 2004.

What happens to the money? I'ts used for good works he really shouldn't talk about.

Do people leaving the sect, as 30 to 50 have over the years, get their money back. No.

30 to 50? I wonder where Jeff got those numbers from? One would have to presume from Dave and yet Dave was arguing recently about our current more accurate figures. He probably just forgot he mentioned up to 50 to a reporter in 2004.

I would like a focus upon Jesus' command to give what you have to the poor, and then follow me, versus David MaKay's commandment to give what you have to me to disrtibute to the poor, (as I see fit) and then follow Jesus via me.

These two ideas are not compatible. If David McKay were for real, he would ask those who wanted to follow Jesus to give away what they had to the poor before joining the JS's. So the wonderful lost Complete Oxford Dictionary would not have been sold in a garage sale, but would have been donated to an educational institution or some appropriate cause.

I read about another high demand Christian group which insisted that substantial inheritances not be touched in order to maintain purity of intent. I see no such higher actions from McKay's predation upon seekers. As he says in answer to the question, no, they do not get their money back......

So much for consumer rights!!!!!!

I would like a focus upon Jesus' commandment to give what you have to the poor, and then follow me, versus David MaKay's commandment to give what you have to me to distribute to the poor, (as I see fit) and then follow Jesus via me.

These two ideas are not compatible. If David McKay were for real, he would ask those who wanted to follow Jesus to give away what they had to the poor before joining the JC's. So the wonderful lost Complete Oxford Dictionary would not have been sold in a garage sale, but would have been donated to an educational institution or some appropriate cause.

I read about another high demand Christian group which insisted that substantial inheritances not be touched in order to maintain purity of intent. I see no such higher actions from McKay's predation upon seekers. As he says in answer to the question, no, they do not get their money back......

So much for consumer rights!!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2007 07:02PM by Blackhat.