Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 11, 2007 11:05AM
From Ezra:
[welikejesus.com]
Awww Shucks! Now it's official, guys, we have lost all traces of credibility, and this got it's final stamp of approval from Franky, at (of all places) the good ol' RR forum.
Honestly, even though the show had knowingly lumped the JC's into the mix with the likes of the Jonestown suicide massacre, as well as the perverted sex teachings of the COG's, can people accept the fact that being "respectable" in the eyes of the world who thrive on things like Jerry Springer and Jeremy Kyle programs is NOT what we're after. Sure we want a chance to tell our side of the story, but knowing what has been stacked against us, and what kind of insinuations and outright accusations can be levelled at us without much fear of what we can do in our defense (legally, that is), we have accepted that a lot of unthinking people will be swayed by the hype that comes with a show like Jeremy Kyle, but, like Dave has pointed out, the ones who look beyond what they are told to think will find out the things that they don't want to broadcast, cause it doesn't sound as sensational.
In the words of a missionary who died on the mission field: "I don't want to be popular (or in this case, respected by) a world that crucified my King."
More conflated thinking and illogical "straw man" argumentation, Ezra. I'd love to meet in person and speak on these matters someday. You know where to find me, right?
[www.nizkor.org]
[en.wikipedia.org]
More specifically, I believe it's called the fallacy of equivocation, a kind of faulty syllogism. Thus:
1. Jesus was unpopular and disliked by some in his day
2. My group, the Jesus Christians, are unpopular and disliked in our day
3. Therefore, my group and I are truly following Jesus
Is erroneous logic, absurd on so many counts. But I won't waste my time or energy in trying to spell it out for you. The operative words here are "unpopular" and "crucified." See? How does it follow that since the JCs are "unpopular," that you are not a "cult?"
You will know them by their fruits...
[en.wikipedia.org]
Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 11:35AM by zeuszor.
[welikejesus.com]
Awww Shucks! Now it's official, guys, we have lost all traces of credibility, and this got it's final stamp of approval from Franky, at (of all places) the good ol' RR forum.
Honestly, even though the show had knowingly lumped the JC's into the mix with the likes of the Jonestown suicide massacre, as well as the perverted sex teachings of the COG's, can people accept the fact that being "respectable" in the eyes of the world who thrive on things like Jerry Springer and Jeremy Kyle programs is NOT what we're after. Sure we want a chance to tell our side of the story, but knowing what has been stacked against us, and what kind of insinuations and outright accusations can be levelled at us without much fear of what we can do in our defense (legally, that is), we have accepted that a lot of unthinking people will be swayed by the hype that comes with a show like Jeremy Kyle, but, like Dave has pointed out, the ones who look beyond what they are told to think will find out the things that they don't want to broadcast, cause it doesn't sound as sensational.
In the words of a missionary who died on the mission field: "I don't want to be popular (or in this case, respected by) a world that crucified my King."
More conflated thinking and illogical "straw man" argumentation, Ezra. I'd love to meet in person and speak on these matters someday. You know where to find me, right?
[www.nizkor.org]
[en.wikipedia.org]
More specifically, I believe it's called the fallacy of equivocation, a kind of faulty syllogism. Thus:
1. Jesus was unpopular and disliked by some in his day
2. My group, the Jesus Christians, are unpopular and disliked in our day
3. Therefore, my group and I are truly following Jesus
Is erroneous logic, absurd on so many counts. But I won't waste my time or energy in trying to spell it out for you. The operative words here are "unpopular" and "crucified." See? How does it follow that since the JCs are "unpopular," that you are not a "cult?"
You will know them by their fruits...
[en.wikipedia.org]
Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 11:35AM by zeuszor.
Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
reprobate
()
Date: December 11, 2007 01:26PM
[books.google.com.au]
Most of the THE RESTRICTED ARTICLES are part of one of DM books which he has
published in full on books.google.com for the world to read without any secret password.
It is a pain because you can only read a page at a time.
Most of the THE RESTRICTED ARTICLES are part of one of DM books which he has
published in full on books.google.com for the world to read without any secret password.
It is a pain because you can only read a page at a time.
To pinch a quote: "I stand at the door and knock"
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 11, 2007 05:45PM
Quoting Jeremy (JC cult member)
"It's a bit concerning that there is a concern about PM's being disabled. I wandered over to the Rick Rossianity site to find a similar complaint being issued by Craig.
If anyone has any serious concerns that they NEED to share, why not just bring them out into the LIGHT?
Why is there such a fuss going on about how people can't whisper things to others in the form of PM's? It's a ridiculous tactic that Craig is using, suggesting that Dave wants all the control by suspending this avenue, whereas Craig's (and others?) true colors are showing by the fact that they just won't use this open and public forum to discuss their disagreements with us--- OUT IN THE OPEN."
Jeremy, if this is you acting independently and making an invitation for me to return and reengage in yet MORE "out in the open" discussion with your group, have a "whisper" in Dave's ear to wake up him up. Last I knew he was needing some "rest" from the "out in the open" discussion I was having on your forum, hence him banning me.
Maybe we could revisit the remarriage topic, or the "it's OK to kill to protect others in the name of Christ" topic.
Anytime, just unbatten those hatches and let the light of the outisde world shine in.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 05:46PM by apostate.
"It's a bit concerning that there is a concern about PM's being disabled. I wandered over to the Rick Rossianity site to find a similar complaint being issued by Craig.
If anyone has any serious concerns that they NEED to share, why not just bring them out into the LIGHT?
Why is there such a fuss going on about how people can't whisper things to others in the form of PM's? It's a ridiculous tactic that Craig is using, suggesting that Dave wants all the control by suspending this avenue, whereas Craig's (and others?) true colors are showing by the fact that they just won't use this open and public forum to discuss their disagreements with us--- OUT IN THE OPEN."
Jeremy, if this is you acting independently and making an invitation for me to return and reengage in yet MORE "out in the open" discussion with your group, have a "whisper" in Dave's ear to wake up him up. Last I knew he was needing some "rest" from the "out in the open" discussion I was having on your forum, hence him banning me.
Maybe we could revisit the remarriage topic, or the "it's OK to kill to protect others in the name of Christ" topic.
Anytime, just unbatten those hatches and let the light of the outisde world shine in.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 05:46PM by apostate.
Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: December 11, 2007 10:33PM
Just saw a few extracts from Jeremy Kyle show part 2 on a Bebo site. Thanks Free Dom. That is clever. I got an invitation to join a circle. Did anyone else get this. see the clips ? i will put my comment there on the Bebo site.
Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 11, 2007 11:37PM
So where's the link, Matilda?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 11:37PM by zeuszor.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 11:37PM by zeuszor.
Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 12, 2007 12:46AM
David Mckay of course wrote the classic "Killers for Christ" document (now removed from public view!), an effort that was of course far more "indicative" of the twisted reasoning behind the teaching behind the JC's, that he would have actually originally intended....we also have here the man who had his followers whip one another, then uses organ-harvesting to buy publicity....hence he is accurately compared with Jim Jones (who would of course also once have been at one point in time, nothing more than a "sincere man" with a ''small group of committed Christians" united by their "genuine devotion" to the "truth".....)
(I will note however, that there is a significant difference between Jim Jones and David McKay however....in that the former was a BIG time religious fraud... something that the latter has only ever been able to aspire to.....)
David McKay splits families (where one partner fails to heed his biding) and covertly prohibits marriages (in order to circumvent possible "breeding grounds" of mutual support for "dissension")......this IS a peverted sex teaching....
....a lot of thinking people will NOT be deluded by Ezras' execrable effort at psychologically labelling them "unthinking" when they choose to seriously question the much trumpeted "sincerity" of David MacKay and sanctimonious myths that he employs as sheep's clothing.....following the disclosures on the JK program...
I understand that Ezra wouldn't want to be popular in a world that has dared question his KING (...David McKay...) hence given that His Majesty urgently needs a new "stunt" to get some freshness into the coverage he's receiving.....
My vote for the "crash test dummy" in that little exercise must, of course........go to Ezra!!!
(I will note however, that there is a significant difference between Jim Jones and David McKay however....in that the former was a BIG time religious fraud... something that the latter has only ever been able to aspire to.....)
David McKay splits families (where one partner fails to heed his biding) and covertly prohibits marriages (in order to circumvent possible "breeding grounds" of mutual support for "dissension")......this IS a peverted sex teaching....
....a lot of thinking people will NOT be deluded by Ezras' execrable effort at psychologically labelling them "unthinking" when they choose to seriously question the much trumpeted "sincerity" of David MacKay and sanctimonious myths that he employs as sheep's clothing.....following the disclosures on the JK program...
I understand that Ezra wouldn't want to be popular in a world that has dared question his KING (...David McKay...) hence given that His Majesty urgently needs a new "stunt" to get some freshness into the coverage he's receiving.....
My vote for the "crash test dummy" in that little exercise must, of course........go to Ezra!!!
Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: December 12, 2007 02:57AM
Quote
reprobate
http://books.google.com.au/books?q=DAVE+MCKAY&as_brr=1
Most of the THE RESTRICTED ARTICLES are part of one of DM books which he has
published in full on books.google.com for the world to read without any secret password.
It is a pain because you can only read a page at a time.
Hi Reprobate!
I know this is awful- but I think you're a troll.
I received your Pm along with some of the others- as you know- I replied privately. I have never accused anyone of being a troll- and I don't mind that you are. I just want you to know- that I know.x
I still love you though.x
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 12, 2007 03:29AM
Yes, I got the invitation to Bebo too. Many thanks.
Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
sWord
()
Date: December 12, 2007 04:01AM
Quote
Most of the THE RESTRICTED ARTICLES are part of one of DM books which he has
published in full on books.google.com for the world to read without any secret password.
It is a pain because you can only read a page at a time.
I've gathered the latest lot together on [jesuschristians.net] at
[jesuschristians.net]
Later I'll check to see which ones are new and which are already there, but for now
this 'Restricted' directory is up-to-date with McK 's.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
DarkEyedWhich
()
Date: December 12, 2007 04:02AM
Hiya xx
We have a morning chat show here in England called The Jeremy Kyle Show, and he had the founder of the JC's on there and people who'd escaped it, and some people who are still members.
That David bloke is a grade A loony toon!.
He said to an ex member..."Wasn't Jesus persecuted too?"...and the ex member replied "But David, you're NOT Jesus!"...and it was only then that it dawned on me, he really thinks he's something doesn't he!.
Jo xx
We have a morning chat show here in England called The Jeremy Kyle Show, and he had the founder of the JC's on there and people who'd escaped it, and some people who are still members.
That David bloke is a grade A loony toon!.
He said to an ex member..."Wasn't Jesus persecuted too?"...and the ex member replied "But David, you're NOT Jesus!"...and it was only then that it dawned on me, he really thinks he's something doesn't he!.
Jo xx
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