Thanks to you for having my back on that, Eyes.

Like I said: the way I see it, with McKay it's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. He's going to be up to no good whether we all work publicly or not. So I say let's lay it on, give the group plenty of bad press and negative attention, from all angles and all all fronts. I am proposing that we actually ratchet it up a notch somehow. I mean, for one thing, if a bunch of ex-members organized, worked on a petition or otherwise some kind of statement of testimony that everybody put their names to, and then put that statement in the public domain, it'd be a powerful witness against David. It could reach a lot of people and potentially stop them from recruiting/abducting somebody else's kid. What's he going to do, sue everyone involved? What is the best thing that could come out of such a move? What is the worst?

I have said my share here in general on these boards. I find this group to be extremely alarming for a variety of reasons that I have outlined in the past. Why won't more ex-members give some kind of testimony, even anonymously? It's incredible, that residual fear. In that respect (and I speak collectively at this point) David is still controlling you to this day. Do not let him, for the good of the public at large. It occured to me: I'd say, to make a very loose estimate, that only 5%-10% of living, adult, ex-JCs and/or JC families who have been hurt by an experience with DM have ever spoken publicly about their experience. The vast majority of ex-members and families never seem to speak about the JCs publicly at all.

The fact that the family members of the present-day JCs have a vested interest in the matter, and therefore are not talking (much), is perfectly understandable and prudent. One has to respect that fact.

Imagine if twice as many came out and testified here or at some other forum. Imagine if 50% did. It'd be a most potent witness against that group.

"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 03:01AM by zeuszor.

Quote
Yasmin
Haivng not been a JC, I can't talk about the experiences of that group, so wanted to talk about my own experience,leaving my childhood group, and hope it might be relevant.

Those people who finally helped me see reality were kind and gentle.They let me talk about the good stuff in the group,and acknowledged that some stuff was good, and then helped me to look at everything else, at power, and at control. At who sacrificed, and who did not. At what the official rules were, and what the "real" rules were. At what we were allowed to disagree with , and what we weren't.

What you say is highly relevant to the JC's. Thank you so much. You are spot on about the sort of approaches that are likely to encourage people to exit. That is the problem I have with being over-combative when it comes to the JC's. We know that people hunker down together in the face of direct opposition. Look at unlikely alliances throughout history that formed because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" such as between the vehement anticommunist Churchill and Stalin. I know of no-one who ever left the JC's during a time of external persecution.

Yes, you're right Malcolm, but that's Oskar with a 'k'.

However, my exposure to the JCs and any subsequent feeling towards the organisation is rather dilute and somewhat neutral. I mean, I don't harbour strong feelings of hate or resentment towards someone like McKay. For me it's about testimony and accountability. And that's happening. I suspect DM is deluded and controlling with a dangerous grasp of English grammar, but he's being watched, now. That's enough for me.

Quote
private eyes
My contribution to this discussion is that I believe the counter cult organisations virtually no nothing about Dave McKay and the Jesus Christians other then what they have read in the newspapers, on forums or perhaps discussions they may have had with concerned parents. Don't take my word for it. Ask them to provide you with some material and see what you get.

Private eyes,

There are counter cult agencies who know a lot about Dave McKay. They tend to be discreet and avoid public head on confrontations. Some of that information has been circulated through the media and some of it is here at this link. [www.culteducation.com] I understand that Brian was able to obtain some of these older reports.. Some of it is here at this forum. If you now have additional information can you please make it available here for public access.

I can tell you that the counter-cult/apologetics groups in my country knew nothing about McKay until I told them and started sending them information. They're pretty much unknown here, outside of certain specialized circles.

Matilda, my email address has been passed on to you but you never wrote me. Write me please and I'll send you all of the data you want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 10:33AM by zeuszor.

You have to understand, Mr. Lowe (hahahahah a joke), that McKay and his group have been in a pain in the arses of the media and authorities in the UK and especially Australia for years, but only relatively recently (the last five or so years) have they made any inroads, or started making any noise so to speak, in my country, the United States. So it is my objective to (at the very least) keep them out of MY community as much as possible. Not in MY neighborhood, McKays!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 11:03AM by zeuszor.

Zeuszor


Rickross is in your country ! Steve Hassan ? There are others. Who did you approach?


CAIC and CCGM in Australia are very aware of the McKays.


Catalyst and CIC in the UK are very aware of the McKays.



Well done for spreading the word to other agencies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 11:18AM by matilda.

In the interest of protecting other people's privacy, I cannot post those names and those agencies here. Email me please, OK?

I will say this though: all of the subscribers to AR-Talk (Google that) have been soundly alerted to the McKays, for one thing. I've passed some data around there, yes. That's a lot of people hearing about the JCs.

I am not worried anymore about mentioning AR-Talk here. DM would never be allowed to subscribe. These are the real Christian apologetics pros and they wouldn't put up with him for two seconds.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2007 11:48AM by zeuszor.

The Jeremy Kyle shows relating to ourselves will be broadcast in the U.K. on December 10 and 11 (Monday and Tuesday), on ITV 1, starting at 9:25am local time.

Do we have readers in UK who can record this and get it up on youtube please?

[www.itv.com]

It'll be broadcast here too