[welikejesus.com]

"Is this what you wanted Dave? Wouldn't God have known maybe about the kidney's? As he seemed to know that the world was round, and stated it in The Bible when nobody else knew. "


Youtube footage of JC HQ Bunker:

[youtube.com]

....convicted of the truth....

...while in some ways I remain committed to (what was once?) the ideology behind the JesusChristians......if they continue to lead the lives they do, blaspheming the spirit of God (the unforgiveable sin Jesus nominates in Scripture), by their deliberate perjury of the truth of any matter to defend WHATEVER lie David may feel it necessary to engage in, in order to nefariously retain control over the lives of those he has deliberately misinformed about the nature of Christ and his own self-inflated "role" in the universe...


....well yes I'll be convicted of the "truth", allright!!!........truths that the jesuschristians choose to perversely refuse to confront.....

Over the years Dave has commented a lot on the more vocal apostates that have left the group and the silence of the others. I have been reading Dave’s spin on the Jeremy Kyle Show and he includes this paragraph:


“In 25 years, there must be dozens of people who have left the Jesus Christians, who could have been produced as more reliable witnesses against us than Malcolm. David Lowe claims to have located sixty of them, and Brian says that every one of them has only negative things to say about me. So where are they? There are very few groups on earth that could boast a record of a quarter of a century without a single disillusioned ex-member willing to publicly criticise it. But that seems to be the Jesus Christian claim to fame.”

Dave errs when he says it was Dave Lowe that claimed to locate them. It was in fact research from a number of people, with contributions from ex members that established there were over 60 members that have left the Jesus Christians. To be fair, in some cases, they were asked to leave.

The list exists.

If certain people did not appear on the Jeremy Kyle Show, they may not have been asked, may not have been available i.e. working or simply wish to get on with their lives. Dave and the public should not think for a moment that the silence of some ex members necessarily indicates that they were not dissatisfied with their experience or that they may not speak out in future.

In the current edition of the Cultic Studies Review (Journal of the International Cultic Studies Association), Perry Bulwer, B.A., LL.B has written a Response to James D Chancellor’s Life in the Family: An Oral History of the Children of God.

I have included the following extracts:

"Instead, he dichotomizes and characterizes former members pejoratively as being either “the relatively few hostile career apostates” [xxxiii]—whatever that implies—or “the thousands of former Children of God who have little or no stake in the outcome.” [xxxiv] That kind of black-and-white thinking disregards the middle ground. Hundreds, if not thousands, of former members who are not “career apostates” do have a stake in the outcome because The Family had a negative impact upon either them or their loved ones, especially those of the second generation, or they still have personal family members and friends in the organization."

and further:

"In their public-relations damage control after the Rodríguez murder-suicide, The Family accused vindictive apostates of egging Ricky on, while they claimed that thousands of former members remain favourable to The Family. [lxxxiv] Their language is suspiciously similar to Chancellor’s dichotomous characterization of former members cited above. The Family assumes that, because the vast majority of the thousands of people who have left the group over the years remain silent about their past affiliation with The Family, they all are favourable to the group. That assumption is typical of The Family’s logic. However, there are almost as many reasons for former members to remain silent about their involvement with The Family as there are former members. Some common motivations are fear, guilt, embarrassment, shame, or the fact that loved ones remain in the group, and the former members do not want to jeopardize any communication with those who remain or their eventual emancipation. Many former members have simply chosen to put their questionable past behind them and concentrate instead on making up for wasted years. Thousands of former members might never speak up, having found new lives that they do not want disrupted by further controversy; but their silence more likely indicates an abhorrence of The Family than support for it."

The difference when comparing Children of God to the Jesus Christians (in terms of numbers) is quite obvious. Comparing hundreds who speak to perhaps thousands that don’t and with the Jesus Christians, perhaps six or seven that speak and the sixty that don't. However, if we accept that out of the more than 60 members that have left the Jesus Christians, there are 6 or 7 vocal critics, that speaks volumes when one considers the current membership is only around 30.

The extracts above, whilst not on the Jesus Christians, IMO mirrors what may be going on with ex members and consequently gives some indication why Dave does not face further opposition. Perhaps he should be grateful and quit whilst he is ahead?

Quote
private eyes
There are almost as many reasons for former members to remain silent about their involvement with The Family as there are former members. Some common motivations are fear, guilt, embarrassment, shame, or the fact that loved ones remain in the group, and the former members do not want to jeopardize any communication with those who remain or their eventual emancipation. Many former members have simply chosen to put their questionable past behind them and concentrate instead on making up for wasted years. Thousands of former members might never speak up, having found new lives that they do not want disrupted by further controversy; but their silence more likely indicates an abhorrence of The Family than support for it."

The difference when comparing Children of God to the Jesus Christians (in terms of numbers) is quite obvious. Comparing hundreds who speak to perhaps thousands that don’t and with the Jesus Christians, perhaps six or seven that speak and the sixty that don't. However, if we accept that out of the more than 60 members that have left the Jesus Christians, there are 6 or 7 vocal critics, that speaks volumes when one considers the current membership is only around 30.

The extracts above, whilst not on the Jesus Christians, IMO mirrors what may be going on with ex members and consequently gives some indication why Dave does not face further opposition. Perhaps he should be grateful and quit whilst he is ahead?

Well, if he doesn't quit, we will be left with chuckling over the comic relief I posted...

[youtube.com]

The lunatic instructing the daft! A tragedy that this is real lives.

Heaven's Gate was a group that believed that Marshall Applewhite ("Do") was an alien who had been inhabiting the body of the person that we call Jesus, and who had reincarnated on Earth 2000 years later in an effort to locate and evacuate with the other aliens/angels before the Earth was destroyed.

[youtube.com]

The woman in this clip was named Yvonne. She was a member of Heaven's Gate for less than six months when she was convinced to "exit her vehicle" (kill herself, commit suicide) so that she could board the spacecraft that had come to pick up "the class" and take them to The Kingdom of God. The group cultivated/recruited her via the Internet. Less than six months! That is the potency that this "snapping" phenomenon can have. That is how powerfully persuasive that these cult mind-control dynamics can be in the right circumstances! THAT is what makes McKay dangerous. A small group, for the most part cut off from mainstream society, nomadic, semi-communal living, a psychotic leader teaching potentially volatile doctrine, equals recipe for disaster. How many people had heard of Heaven's Gate before they all would up dead? We cannot trivialize or marginalize the JCs or DM because of their lack of numbers and high defection rate over the years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2007 03:59AM by zeuszor.

Dear Private Eyes,

David's dishonesty is increasingly poorly crafted.....Which ex-member speaks up on his behalf?....it would appear not a soul....hence the "silence" of the ex-members is actually far more damning of David McKay than it is of anyone else....



Similarly, while I would LOVE to have the opportunity to "make a meal" out of David on television, the producers of the JK program had already committed themselves to other participants,....

I not that "Fran" never "showed" up, nor "Christine" put in an appearance on the program....(and thus, here employing David McKays own self seeking "logic").....gutless dogs that they are....they make one critical remark about Brian, after another, but then are far too pusillanimous to actual face him, in person....

(...we can of course make such an observation about EVERY JesusChristian member that failed to personally attend the JK program.....)



What a sick mind, that would hypocritically seek to publicly condemn those, (that it spent so long tormenting in private),
for practises it "condones" among those betoken to it!

Whatever I post never gets posted.... LOL What sort of 1 sided Forum is this??? LMAO

Get out of here, Al. We do not want your shenanigans. I am writing the moderator so you'll be banned again. Get serious and quit trolling.

Casey wrote:

"Although their hatred is so strong against us, I find it hard to believe that any of our critics would refuse a kidney from a JC if he/she was lying in a hospital bed in need. If I had it to do over again, I think I would seriously be ok with donating to any of the crew over at RR, despite our disagreements. I don't know if any of them would believe that, but for what it's worth, it's how I feel."

[welikejesus.com]

Casey, you have it all wrong. I do not hate you. Nobody ever said that they hate you. I am quite concerned for you, as I have repeated in the past, but you have made your decisions, and I have made mine. I salute your decision to donate. This is not an "us vs. them" scenario, and I do not think of the JCs as my enemies. The matter is not so simplistic as that. I believe that you have been tricked, however, and that David is a bad man.

Anyway, I hope that you are well.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2007 12:33PM by zeuszor.

No hatred here Casey. And i thought your post was very compassionate.Have a Merry Christmas, Yasmin