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cultmalleus
It's good to have you here Fran. An opportunity to have a free discussion without groupthink/Davethink is mentally healthy.
Thank you. I also agree that discussions without groupthink are mentally healthy. I guess you believe that us JCs don't have many opportunities to have free discussions. This is despite the fact that most of us are split up into autonomous teams. Of course, there is unity amongst us, and that seems to dissapoint you. However, there is unity amongst you guys here on this forum too, and people could argue that there is a lot of group think that goes on this thread. I guess the difference for me is that I am united with the JCs in wanting to obey Jesus, whereas it seems you guys are only united in wanting to tear us down.
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I know many ex JC's have been angry about being conned and they've ventilated here, often for the first time; it's understandable. Fran, try and look past that to the positive things that have been said.
I have tried to look past all the grumbling people do on this thread to find the positive things that have been said. Sadly, there hasn't been much positive stuff said. If you look back through the 50 or so pages of this thread, I think you would have to agree with me on that.
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Cultmalleus
Yes, there is a positive alternative. Work in the invisible Kingdom of Heaven using your special and unique talents properly to love, care for and help others.
Thank you. That is one of the most positive things I have heard on this forum. And I totally agree with you. It is what I have been trying to do for the last nine years. I pray that I will continue to do that for the rest of my life.
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cultmaleus
Don't waste your life selling books on the street just because Dave could never make it without you as a published author.
Cultmalleus, I don't know who you are or what your own spiritual journey has been like. I don't know if you even know me, though it sounds like you do not. Let me share a little about my own walk with God...
I heard from God before I ever met the JCs and I wanted to follow Jesus before I met them. I still hear from God, without having to ask permission from anybody to do so. What God tells me, I take seriously and I try to put it into practise.
When I received "The Liberator" nine years ago on the streets of Sydney, it did not dampen my faith in God. On the contrary, it fanned the fire that had already ignited within me and it truly spoke to my condition. The teachings of Jesus were portrayed in a very relevant and exciting way. I still like that comic.
I don't distribute any literature that I don't think will inspire people in some way to follow God. On our forum, you will find a section called "Survivors". I suggest you read the many letters we receive each week telling us how much that book has helped them in their walk with God. It's not like these people are talking about joining us. They are just talking about how it has helped their relationship with God. And that is what the Kingdom of Heaven is all about, wouldn't you agree?
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cultmalleus
Find the path that God has for you.
I have. And I continue to ask God what His path for my life is.
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cultmalleus
Look for good and God in other people, instead of trying to find the bad, you'll be amazed how much is really out there amongst "systemites".
One of the most fundamental Quaker teachings is that there is that 'there is that of God in everyone'. Understanding this has indeed helped me see how much is really out there in the world. Even systemites (ie. people who worship a system in preference to worshipping God) have some good qualities. However, unless they repent and turn to God, they will never experience the peace that comes with having a sincere relationship with God. This goes for people in and out of the Jesus Christians, regardless of what system they worship.
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Cultmalleus
Unfortunately, if you are looking for a actual visible organisation it doesn't exist.
You are right, it doesn't. That is why it is pointless putting your faith in any organization. Having said that, I don't believe organizations in themselves are bad. Most of us in the world are part of organizations. We choose to work at certain places in certain professions, etc. The important thing is to ask God who (if anyone) He wants you to be working with, and then do you best to follow your understanding of His will.
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cultmalleus
In fact, the more you try and create the K of H as a visible organisation the more you make an oppressive cult of control. It is like trying to chase a wisp of smoke, or trying to get happy.
That is true only to the extent that you forget about building the Kingdom of Heaven. If you continue to sincerely build the Kingdom of Heaven, you cannot be controlled by opressive cults nor opressive cult-busters.
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cultmalleus
It just comes when you love others in freedom.
Amen to that! Love is what the Kingdom of Heaven is all about. True freedom is actually yeilding your entire will to the will of God. The more your surrender your own will to God, the more free you become! It's truly inspiring!
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cultmalleus
I think there are times Dave tries to be good, but he has a terrible insecurity and members of the JC's are in a co-dependancy with him.
I think here is where we disagree. However, I can appreciate that you personally felt dependant on the group. I hope that you have not transferred that dependency onto another group. The important thing is to learn to be dependent on God.
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cultmalleus
Better for him and for you to part ways.
I think that is a decision that is for him and me to make, and not for you to call.
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cultmalleus
He has certain rigid ideas which will stunt your growth in God.
I have learned a lot from Dave as well as from other JCs and non-JCs. If you find that something is not helping you to grow in God, then you don't take that on. Try all things, and hold to that which is good, says the scripture.
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cultmalleus
Perhaps it was helpful to be in the JC's for a time, perhaps it is now time to try life without them.
Or perhaps I still need to learn more from my fellowship with the JCs. Either way, that is something for me to decide (according to what I believe God wants me to do).
I could easily say, perhaps it was helpful for you to leave the JCs for a time, and perhaps now it is time for you to come back and live and work with them again.
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cultmalleus
Don't end up sad and frustrated as many are. You know I'm speaking the truth.
Yes, it is true. Many people are sad and frustrated. Others are angry and bitter. Others are confused. I don't intend to end up like that. I don't think that is what God wants, and as I long as I stay faithful to His leadings, I am sure that I won't end up that way. Bitterness is not a fruit of the Spirit. It doesn't come from following God. It comes from NOT following Him.
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cultmalleus
After a certain age you may no longer be able to escape and start a new, fulfilling life.
Escape what? I am already living a new and fulfilling life. It is never too old to repent and turn to God. Don't give up, cultmalleus, no matter how old you are!
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cultmalleus
Sure, it was an adventure for a while.
Following God is always and adventure. It is not something you just get a thrill out of for a short time. It is a lifetime of adventure!
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cultmalleus
But you can see your fate in front of you in the older members.
When I see the evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in someone's life, I am encouraged and strive to share those same fruits in my own walk with God. But when I see negative fruits like bitterness, lies and envy, in other people, I take note of it and strive to understand what caused such negative fruit so that I will not share the same fate.
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cultmalleus
At least give other options a try.
There is no other option worth trying other than following God. I have spent most of my life trying out the option of disobeying God, and it was not for me. I've been there and done that. I firmly believe that following God is the only option worth choosing. If you believe otherwise, then that's your choice.
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cultmalleus
If everything is really free and democratic as you say, there's nothing stopping you leaving for a while to do some other worthwhile work that might be more suitable for you, and perhaps more in line with God's will which is to love and be kind. You could always go back later if it didn't work out.
I guess you haven't heard what I have said previously. Most JCs are in independent autonomous teams where they can choose to do whatever they like. Sure, other teams may not like what they choose and may comment, but they are free to do whatever they like just the same. Xenophone (James) and his wife were on such a team. They were given a vehicle, funds and literature to head off and do what they wanted. They eventually decided to do something different to what most JCs are doing, and that is their choice.
Having said that, you must realise that you are not the first to use the "if you are really free why don't you leave?" line.
I could just as easily ask you... "if you are really free like you say you are, why don't you come back to the Jesus Christians to live and work with us?"
The truth is that we are BOTH free, and we each choose what we want to do. You choose to stay out of the JCs and I choose to continue with them. As long as we are both trying to what we believe God wants us to do, we will both be building God's kingdom.