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KingTut
Hi Apostate.

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Im not sure what you meant in your first paragraph sorry. All i know is my opinion is if someone attacks me i will fight back to protect myself. I dont belive Jesus wants us to stand there while we get a beating, or shot or cut up by somebody. Of course Jesus stood by and let himself get beating, lashed etc etc, but he had to do that to save us.
Fighting back to protect yourself i belive does mean you can still love your enemy, you just dont have to be stupid.

I was speaking of the discussion on the JC forum where Dave talks about it being OK to shoot someone who is harming someone else with the intent of killing them if the right context presented itself and still consider himself to be following Christ to do so.

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I am all for ex members of group getting together in person or on forums to talk about there problems, to uplift and help each other, and i have done the same in the past. You all have seemed to miss what i really mean, this forum should be used for good, okay if you want to tell people not to join a group thjat is fine as long as you back it up with hard evidnece, not just because you had a personality clash.

So Glenn, the testimony of witnesses is not considered "hard" enough evidence for you? Witnesses have testifed of welfare fraud, thefts, and continuing abusive behaviour within the group. Dave certainly would not accept your judgement that is simply about a personality clash. He does not believe in such things as he allows for no opposing personality to exist. His is the only one presented in the community.


This forum is used for good. A lot of good has been done by it, many people have benfited from its existance. Many people, including yourself, now know of what really goes on inside that little cult. Seeing that this is really the first opportunity many of the ex members have ever had to express themselves you are being hyper critical to judge us all as being bitter.

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As someone said your ex-members but at one point you were members, and there must have been something there that you liked.
You asked me what was positive about Scientology, I ask you now to do the same about the JC?

I note that you still have not actually identified anything good about the Church of Scientology.

I agree with malcolm that projects which involved the helping of others, such as the one I was involved in India were worthy projects; but Dave soon pulled that apart in favour of "getting back to basics" by replacing such ventures with revenue building doney distributing.

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But some of the posts some of you have posted have actually been very vile, even childish, if your all well adjusted adults im sure you can keep at at a level which doesnt lower itself to feeding of a leech.

Glenn, the JC group forum you defend attacks ex JC females simply because they are Indians, other females because they did not want their child sleeping in a room full of adult males, it justifies killing for Christ, it brags about whipping African volunteers for "sins" committed against the group, it defends past welfare fraud, and states the peadophillic actions against children involves no force. Who is really "feeding a leech".

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The ex-scientologists i have seen we have talked of happier things about the great things we are doing. We know we dont like that cult anymore and we know they are controlling etc but there has to be a time you say " Oaky it was bad, but im bigger and better than they are, if you keep rehashing the bad, your doomed to be trapped in that box.

What response do you think you would generate if you went to the ex Scientologist website and told them that they were feeding a leech by exposing the erroneous actions of that group?

I also note you say that you talk about the "happier things about the great things we are doing". You have received private communication from some ex members talking about just that.

It is a puzzle to me why you are so defensive of a group that engages in some of the practices I mentioned earlier. I would encourage to join the group to better gain an understanding of how it works, as it seems you do not believe the account of ex members.

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I was a youth leader at my church for 2 years, of course i would let them get angry and spill everything to me, but you cant keep going in that circle of hate, sometime you have to move on. There parents would want them too right? My main point with the bitterness is this aint people who left in the last year, we are talking 5+ and they are still bitter, a word of advice seek a counsellor i did and it worked wonders.

So you sought a counsellor to deal with what happened to you within the Scientologists. It must have been a painful time for you leaving them. But I still note you that you have not said anything positive about the Church of Scientology, whereas we ex members have states some positives about the JC's.

Talking about the past does not make a person bitter Glenn. How else do we learn from the mistakes of the past. Dave simply refuses to acknowledge that he made any. Is the indigenous population of Australia simply expressing bitterness by wanting to hear an apology from the Australian government, and as such can be discounted?

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I have no idea what you mena by Dave's illegal activties from what i have gathered from both sides illegal stuff was done by members, and i think its pretty selfish for them to blame Dave for things they have done
As i said on the JC forum if Dave farts sme of you guys blame him for all the woes with the Ozone Layer

Illegal actions were done by members, true enough, but under direction from Dave. Failure to comply meant facing a grievance which was designed to coerce the individual into compliance. The welfare fraud the ENTIRE group engaged in was one such activity.

And Dave's farts like mine and yours do affect the ozone layer :lol:

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Illegal actions were done by members, true enough, but under direction from Dave. Failure to comply meant facing a grievance which was designed to coerce the individual into compliance. The welfare fraud the ENTIRE group engaged in was one such activity.