Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
muppet
()
Date: December 31, 2006 06:56PM
Quote
Then, in the spring of '72, Dad began to wield some new "scare tactics" designed to shift the direction and momentum of his Revolution for Jesus. It was now time for the "Great Escape", a special warning revelation he received from the spirit world. On April 24, 1972, he announced: "The storm of God's judgments upon the ease and luxury of these nations, particularly America, is fast approaching, and the sea and waves of the uprisings of people are about to rage!" 59 He warned his faithful followers that all escape routes out of America would be closed as soon as "the Storm of God's judgments begins to break upon the wickedness of the Lowlands of America!" In a subsequent, emergency Mo Letter, entitled "Flee As A Bird To Your Mountain," he warned his disciples to run for their lives while there was still a chance. 60 Soon the COG began a mass exodus out of the States. Many fled to South America; others escaped to England and the Continent. Then, in the spring of '72, Dad began to wield some new "scare tactics" designed to shift the direction and momentum of his Revolution for Jesus. It was now time for the "Great Escape", a special warning revelation he received from the spirit world. On April 24, 1972, he announced: "The storm of God's judgments upon the ease and luxury of these nations, particularly America, is fast approaching, and the sea and waves of the uprisings of people are about to rage!" 59 He warned his faithful followers that all escape routes out of America would be closed as soon as "the Storm of God's judgments begins to break upon the wickedness of the Lowlands of America!" In a subsequent, emergency Mo Letter, entitled "Flee As A Bird To Your Mountain," he warned his disciples to run for their lives while there was still a chance. 60 Soon the COG began a mass exodus out of the States. Many fled to South America; others escaped to England and the Continent.Quote
I have a question. When and why did Dave leave the US? did he join the CoG before or after he left the US?
Matilda, thanks for the link. It is a reminder of Bergs influence on DM.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
cultmalleus
()
Date: January 01, 2007 11:47AM
Pride.
The concept of pride is taught as one of the first fundamentals to a new JC member. Taking from a humility tradition in Christianity and other religions, the idea is that we need to break our pride to become a new man/woman. This is an excellent spiritual exercise if it is within a deeply personal relationship with God, completely freely chosen. However, within the context of the group, it becomes perverted into one of the most essential means of control.
If you feel uncomfortable about something, a leader can always blame it on pride. If you feel something is wrong, the issue can be sidestepped by focusing on feelings of pride. JC's are humiliated to "break their pride". The leaders ideas are right, followers disagreements are pride, or social conscience, or a combination of the two.
Eventually JC's learn to keep their heads down, become submissive little puppies willing to do anything to avoid conflict. The leaders swell with immense pride at their power and achievements and control.
Followers are allowed to be proud of one thing, that they are part of an elite, superior to "systemites". We can see this in repeated statements like "we believe others outside the group might be sincere, but we haven't found anyone following God as much as we are."
True humility is listening to others and being willing to change in response to truth, in freedom. Without freedom the "breaking of pride" by others is simply the exercise of power.
There is good pride and bad pride. Pride and responsibility for doing a good job is good. Pride of being above others is arrogance. Have a look at the spirit Dave is exhibiting on the Fox whipping report video. What type of pride is Dave exhibiting?
The concept of pride is taught as one of the first fundamentals to a new JC member. Taking from a humility tradition in Christianity and other religions, the idea is that we need to break our pride to become a new man/woman. This is an excellent spiritual exercise if it is within a deeply personal relationship with God, completely freely chosen. However, within the context of the group, it becomes perverted into one of the most essential means of control.
If you feel uncomfortable about something, a leader can always blame it on pride. If you feel something is wrong, the issue can be sidestepped by focusing on feelings of pride. JC's are humiliated to "break their pride". The leaders ideas are right, followers disagreements are pride, or social conscience, or a combination of the two.
Eventually JC's learn to keep their heads down, become submissive little puppies willing to do anything to avoid conflict. The leaders swell with immense pride at their power and achievements and control.
Followers are allowed to be proud of one thing, that they are part of an elite, superior to "systemites". We can see this in repeated statements like "we believe others outside the group might be sincere, but we haven't found anyone following God as much as we are."
True humility is listening to others and being willing to change in response to truth, in freedom. Without freedom the "breaking of pride" by others is simply the exercise of power.
There is good pride and bad pride. Pride and responsibility for doing a good job is good. Pride of being above others is arrogance. Have a look at the spirit Dave is exhibiting on the Fox whipping report video. What type of pride is Dave exhibiting?
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: January 01, 2007 01:06PM
Another edifying quote from David McKay
[i:2f70456b26]"It is amazing how many of these bitter ex-members were actually pretty hopeless when they joined us"[/i:2f70456b26]
SOURCE: [welikejesus.com] (1 JAN. 2007)
I wonder if new recruits, like Joseph, or Grace, are told they are "hopeless" when they join, or will David save that for when they leave?
A telling window into the mind of a cult leader and how he views those who choose to follow him.
[i:2f70456b26]"It is amazing how many of these bitter ex-members were actually pretty hopeless when they joined us"[/i:2f70456b26]
SOURCE: [welikejesus.com] (1 JAN. 2007)
I wonder if new recruits, like Joseph, or Grace, are told they are "hopeless" when they join, or will David save that for when they leave?
A telling window into the mind of a cult leader and how he views those who choose to follow him.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: January 01, 2007 10:05PM
Quote
apostate
Another edifying quote from David McKay
[i:7af598836b]"It is amazing how many of these bitter ex-members were actually pretty hopeless when they joined us"[/i:7af598836b]
SOURCE: [welikejesus.com] (1 JAN. 2007)
I wonder if new recruits, like Joseph, or Grace, are told they are "hopeless" when they join, or will David save that for when they leave?
A telling window into the mind of a cult leader and how he views those who choose to follow him.
Yes it is telling that there is not one ex member who has been mentioned on this board who has not suffered the DM character assassination[/color:7af598836b]. This is an intentional attempt to influence the reputation of ex members who have spoken out, or are likely to speak out against DM, in such a negative way as to cause others to mistrust, misjudge and disbelieve the ex members. Dave uses exaggeration, manipulation of facts and inventive memories to present an untrue picture of the targeted ex member. Ex members recognise the ploy as one they had previously experienced. At the time of their recruitment, DM used the same ploy to distance them from their mates, families or loved ones.
During grievances, Dave uses it to rein in the miscreants in the group.
Seeing him use the same old tactics over and over again, against different targets is very liberating for ex members.
The following list is interesting. Anthony Stahelski identified five phases of social psychological conditioning which he calls cult-like conditioning techniques employed by terrorist groups: [Stahelski, 2004]:
Depluralization: stripping away all other group member identities
Self-deindividuation: stripping away each member’s personal identity
Other-deindividuation: stripping away the personal identities of enemies
Dehumanization: identifying enemies as subhuman or nonhuman
Demonization: identifying enemies as evil
How many of those could be applied to DM´s group?
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: January 02, 2007 03:40PM
More fear mongering from Dave with a dash of false accusation, sprinkled with a seasoning of what if.
[i:21389fffe8]"I just turned 62 years old, and yet one of the recurring thoughts on the RR forum is what they will do after I die. Is this just very long-range preparation, or do they know something that I don't?"[/i:21389fffe8]
SOURCE: [welikejesus.com] (2 Jan. 2007)
[i:21389fffe8]"I just turned 62 years old, and yet one of the recurring thoughts on the RR forum is what they will do after I die. Is this just very long-range preparation, or do they know something that I don't?"[/i:21389fffe8]
SOURCE: [welikejesus.com] (2 Jan. 2007)
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
free of DM
()
Date: January 02, 2007 10:34PM
Quote
cultmalleus
Pride.
The concept of pride is taught as one of the first fundamentals to a new JC member. Taking from a humility tradition in Christianity and other religions, the idea is that we need to break our pride to become a new man/woman. This is an excellent spiritual exercise if it is within a deeply personal relationship with God, completely freely chosen. However, within the context of the group, it becomes perverted into one of the most essential means of control.
If you feel uncomfortable about something, a leader can always blame it on pride. If you feel something is wrong, the issue can be sidestepped by focusing on feelings of pride. JC's are humiliated to "break their pride". The leaders ideas are right, followers disagreements are pride, or social conscience, or a combination of the two.
Eventually JC's learn to keep their heads down, become submissive little puppies willing to do anything to avoid conflict. The leaders swell with immense pride at their power and achievements and control.
Followers are allowed to be proud of one thing, that they are part of an elite, superior to "systemites". We can see this in repeated statements like "we believe others outside the group might be sincere, but we haven't found anyone following God as much as we are."
True humility is listening to others and being willing to change in response to truth, in freedom. Without freedom the "breaking of pride" by others is simply the exercise of power.
There is good pride and bad pride. Pride and responsibility for doing a good job is good. Pride of being above others is arrogance. Have a look at the spirit Dave is exhibiting on the Fox whipping report video. What type of pride is Dave exhibiting?
True. The group judges how ´spiritual´you are by the quotas met and the amount of donations you collect. The more you bring in, the less ranting he does. The less you bring in, the more ranting he does.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: January 03, 2007 05:55AM
Dave is continuing to rail against ex members, while accusing others of having "mental problems".
[i:e031711c60]... a number of the ex-members who are presently fighting us so fiercely seem to have serious mental problems, i.e. to be a bit crazy. But I had to point out that most of them had similar problems when they were members of our community, and many of our present members and supporters have mental problems as well. It's just that within the community these tendencies were being dealt with, whereas outside the community they seem to run rampant. [/i:e031711c60]
SOURCE: [cust.idl.net.au] (3 Jan 2007)
Once again he asserts that any outside his direct influence will go crazy. It is clear that such comments say something about his own state of mind.
[i:e031711c60]... a number of the ex-members who are presently fighting us so fiercely seem to have serious mental problems, i.e. to be a bit crazy. But I had to point out that most of them had similar problems when they were members of our community, and many of our present members and supporters have mental problems as well. It's just that within the community these tendencies were being dealt with, whereas outside the community they seem to run rampant. [/i:e031711c60]
SOURCE: [cust.idl.net.au] (3 Jan 2007)
Once again he asserts that any outside his direct influence will go crazy. It is clear that such comments say something about his own state of mind.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: January 03, 2007 08:18AM
Apostate quoting Dave:
I think this reveals DM's inability to diagnose medical problems. Which is it, 'serious mental problems' or 'a bit crazy'? Or maybe he's just not qualified to comment and these are just the continued rantings of a lunatic!
Quote
... a number of the ex-members who are presently fighting us so fiercely seem to have serious mental problems, i.e. to be a bit crazy.
I think this reveals DM's inability to diagnose medical problems. Which is it, 'serious mental problems' or 'a bit crazy'? Or maybe he's just not qualified to comment and these are just the continued rantings of a lunatic!
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: January 03, 2007 02:44PM
Dear Fran,
Before getting down to the details of a reply, could you explain why your own website states that postings "should address the messenger, not the messager" while David Mckay indulges in one "character assination" after the other ("explaining" that the postings from his critics are completely inaccurate and that their substance is purely the result of their "bitternesss" in various guises).....
You have to my knowledge never called David to account for this...(and as you are aware many of us believe that in any matter of actual importance, you and the other members of the group have little, if any say!)....which of course by the very fact that you haven't, would lend the criticisms themselves considerable support?
Do you think David's responses to the various matters raised on your web-site by the members of this site are "fair and reasonable" comment?
If not, why is he not disciplined appropriatedly (...because it's all just so much pretence????)
Malcolm
Before getting down to the details of a reply, could you explain why your own website states that postings "should address the messenger, not the messager" while David Mckay indulges in one "character assination" after the other ("explaining" that the postings from his critics are completely inaccurate and that their substance is purely the result of their "bitternesss" in various guises).....
You have to my knowledge never called David to account for this...(and as you are aware many of us believe that in any matter of actual importance, you and the other members of the group have little, if any say!)....which of course by the very fact that you haven't, would lend the criticisms themselves considerable support?
Do you think David's responses to the various matters raised on your web-site by the members of this site are "fair and reasonable" comment?
If not, why is he not disciplined appropriatedly (...because it's all just so much pretence????)
Malcolm
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: January 05, 2007 10:39PM
Dear Moderator,
Thank you for speaking to the press (LA Independant) recently in relation to the puerile publicity stunt intended to embarass the Johnsons. I realize that you had to be cautious in what you say...but it was very appreciated. The venal (and patently obvious attempts) to delude the Johnsons into providing a written "confession" (....that could then be used as an "admission of guilt" to wring compensation out of them in court) deserve the deepest condemnation....(...as well as an eventual hole of their own in hell!)
While David lies pathologically....there are continual references to "cult-busters" on his "public" forum....do such things exist and how does one join?
thanks again,
Malcolm Wrest
Thank you for speaking to the press (LA Independant) recently in relation to the puerile publicity stunt intended to embarass the Johnsons. I realize that you had to be cautious in what you say...but it was very appreciated. The venal (and patently obvious attempts) to delude the Johnsons into providing a written "confession" (....that could then be used as an "admission of guilt" to wring compensation out of them in court) deserve the deepest condemnation....(...as well as an eventual hole of their own in hell!)
While David lies pathologically....there are continual references to "cult-busters" on his "public" forum....do such things exist and how does one join?
thanks again,
Malcolm Wrest
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