Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 23, 2006 01:37PM
Quote
Jack Oskar Larm
Thanks Apostate,
Some truly shocking stuff happening at JC HQ. It's amazing how sick a forum can become when it's run by genuinely sick, sick people. I can only spend a few minutes reading their stuff before I have to turn away in disgust.
Dave McKay has a habit of naming people. Why doesn't he name 'X'?
I suspect Dave likes (loves) to intimidate the strong-willed (ie ex-members), but is sensitive to the weak-willed (ie people like X). I strongly suspect that this is McKay's way of ensuring a malleable group...putty in his dirty hands!
Phew, I'm still a little shaken by the JC's defence of their corrupt behaviour. They are sick, sick people.
If ever you had any questions about the Salem witch hunts or the Inquisitions and what sort of people took part in them they would all be answered by a short visit to the Jesus Christian forum. Dave and his followers are so devoid of humane feeling towards others, so much so, that they can attack a mother who feared for her son's safety whilst in the group.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
cultmalleus
()
Date: December 23, 2006 07:28PM
just finished reading that thread too, golly, Dave has so so much egg on his face. I know who Apostate is, and he certainly isn't Tony.
Such a reminder of how Dave always makes assumptions and then backs them up with bluff. Such a liar who twists the truth to make himself look good and paints others (like the concerned mother) in the worst possible light and insinuates motivations that do not exist.
Such a reminder of how Dave always makes assumptions and then backs them up with bluff. Such a liar who twists the truth to make himself look good and paints others (like the concerned mother) in the worst possible light and insinuates motivations that do not exist.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 24, 2006 06:59AM
Just reading that thread and Dave's final threats it is easy to see why I do not identify myself to him. I am not that stupid.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 25, 2006 02:23AM
Hmmm, a lot of fine postings. Its' difficult to make much more of a contribution (and to read through all of the contributions) as many of the important issues have already been covered. I think though that we can be quite specific here and detail the "cold hard facts" that David (attempts to) goad contributers by asserting that he is accused of nothing "of substance".
(By way of introduction I was one of the older "original" members of the Christians, involved from 1981 through to the Nullabor walk in which I participated, before leaving. I am now resident in Korea where I have lived for the past seven years, hence am a little "out of the loop" although Attila may recall contacting me some years back. Kevin (Davids' estranged son) advised me of the debate on this forum several weeks ago but have only recently been able to devote some serious time to it).
David McKay routinely and deliberately contravenes what Christ idenitified as his greatest commandment, and then abuses scripture to "justify" doing unto others what he most certainly would not have not have done unto him. (A conceited variation on the utilitarian argument of the greatest good (self-servingly defined)for the greatest number).
Members of the Jesus Christians "voluntarily" forgo the rights (Freedoms of Speech, Movement, Association) that we would associate with most Christian organizations. A deliberately created paranoia of the "means justifying the ends" and the insidious persistent pyschological initimidation of (belittlement, public humiliation, denigrating "self-criticism", isolation, ) starts the slide into the Orwellian nightmare (Slavery is freedom, War is peace. Subjection to the manipulation by David is Service to God.) that the Jesus Christians have now become.
Specifically, there is no "Separation of Powers" (e.g. Grievance meetings may be engineered to remove Davids internal "political opponents" as required). There is no meaningful "audit", "transparency" or "accountability" of the leadership. At his personal whim, David Mackay is not subject to the "laws" that govern the lives of those in Jesus Christians. There is no secret ballot or other methods by which members can legimately register dissent, without fear of recrimination.
Of course far from the "means justifying the ends", in the Jesus Christians we can see the "means" becoming the "ends where the Great Commission has been prostituted into a publicity bandwagon for Davids little empire. The "engineering" of history and the construction of wilful fabrications are all justified by the fact that they will ultimately champion the "Kingdom of Heaven".
On a more mundane level, we could probably accuse David (and most of the key leadership) of indulging in
Fraud, with intent to gain
("Gain" here construed as publicity, members or cash)
Balckmail
Slander
in addition to the more commonplace Welfare Fraud, Vandalism, duplicitious representation, etc and so on.
All of us (the Ex members) have battled with David in isolation, but given that these days we (the Ex members!!) far, far outnumber David and those currently remaining loyal to him, there would appear to be a number of options.
We can indiviudally write to the respective governemnt Ministers in Australia and America requesting that David Mckays passport be withdrawn cancelled, given that he is of manifestly bad character. A passport is an not automatically granted right(prisoners convicted of serious offences cannot hold one) but is a privledge afforded to most citizens. (Obviously this would not cut out the "cancer" but would at least serve to isolate it preliminarily).
We may be able to enter into a class action with one of the larger legal firms (Psychological Trauma and Abuse has been legally recognized as a "damage" in other similar legal actions). This would require a plea-bargaining arrangement with the Public Prosecutor (not an impossible ask) whereby we could detail illegal acts in which we personally participated with the intention being to solely indict David McKay.
We could make oursleves available as "character" witnesses for the Prosecution in the upcoming trial in the States and in other circumstances as they come to bear.
Most of the contributors on this site would never have meet me. We need to build up enough of a working relationship that we can jointly bring greater pressure to bear on David, to generate some genuine changes. ( Although I would be personally happy if David McKay himself never changed...(from David's perspective there is of course no "incentive" to change he has got away with it all for so long, why shouldn't it just all continue indefinitely).....let him face God on the record he has!) If I may be so bold, I think all of us joined the Jesus Christians with some ideals of our own, and despite how unpleasant an experience it may have been, we need to retain our faith in the God whom we first dared to trust in. I really think those of us who are in a postion to do so, should do a little something to support Boyd and Sheri who have faithfully continued to live out the lives we thought we were first commiting ourselves to. I believe that the strength of our committments to God and ourselves will determine if we are honoured with the opportunity of removing this scourge upon the faithful.
May God be with those seeking his will this festive season. Merry Xmas.
Malcolm
(By way of introduction I was one of the older "original" members of the Christians, involved from 1981 through to the Nullabor walk in which I participated, before leaving. I am now resident in Korea where I have lived for the past seven years, hence am a little "out of the loop" although Attila may recall contacting me some years back. Kevin (Davids' estranged son) advised me of the debate on this forum several weeks ago but have only recently been able to devote some serious time to it).
David McKay routinely and deliberately contravenes what Christ idenitified as his greatest commandment, and then abuses scripture to "justify" doing unto others what he most certainly would not have not have done unto him. (A conceited variation on the utilitarian argument of the greatest good (self-servingly defined)for the greatest number).
Members of the Jesus Christians "voluntarily" forgo the rights (Freedoms of Speech, Movement, Association) that we would associate with most Christian organizations. A deliberately created paranoia of the "means justifying the ends" and the insidious persistent pyschological initimidation of (belittlement, public humiliation, denigrating "self-criticism", isolation, ) starts the slide into the Orwellian nightmare (Slavery is freedom, War is peace. Subjection to the manipulation by David is Service to God.) that the Jesus Christians have now become.
Specifically, there is no "Separation of Powers" (e.g. Grievance meetings may be engineered to remove Davids internal "political opponents" as required). There is no meaningful "audit", "transparency" or "accountability" of the leadership. At his personal whim, David Mackay is not subject to the "laws" that govern the lives of those in Jesus Christians. There is no secret ballot or other methods by which members can legimately register dissent, without fear of recrimination.
Of course far from the "means justifying the ends", in the Jesus Christians we can see the "means" becoming the "ends where the Great Commission has been prostituted into a publicity bandwagon for Davids little empire. The "engineering" of history and the construction of wilful fabrications are all justified by the fact that they will ultimately champion the "Kingdom of Heaven".
On a more mundane level, we could probably accuse David (and most of the key leadership) of indulging in
Fraud, with intent to gain
("Gain" here construed as publicity, members or cash)
Balckmail
Slander
in addition to the more commonplace Welfare Fraud, Vandalism, duplicitious representation, etc and so on.
All of us (the Ex members) have battled with David in isolation, but given that these days we (the Ex members!!) far, far outnumber David and those currently remaining loyal to him, there would appear to be a number of options.
We can indiviudally write to the respective governemnt Ministers in Australia and America requesting that David Mckays passport be withdrawn cancelled, given that he is of manifestly bad character. A passport is an not automatically granted right(prisoners convicted of serious offences cannot hold one) but is a privledge afforded to most citizens. (Obviously this would not cut out the "cancer" but would at least serve to isolate it preliminarily).
We may be able to enter into a class action with one of the larger legal firms (Psychological Trauma and Abuse has been legally recognized as a "damage" in other similar legal actions). This would require a plea-bargaining arrangement with the Public Prosecutor (not an impossible ask) whereby we could detail illegal acts in which we personally participated with the intention being to solely indict David McKay.
We could make oursleves available as "character" witnesses for the Prosecution in the upcoming trial in the States and in other circumstances as they come to bear.
Most of the contributors on this site would never have meet me. We need to build up enough of a working relationship that we can jointly bring greater pressure to bear on David, to generate some genuine changes. ( Although I would be personally happy if David McKay himself never changed...(from David's perspective there is of course no "incentive" to change he has got away with it all for so long, why shouldn't it just all continue indefinitely).....let him face God on the record he has!) If I may be so bold, I think all of us joined the Jesus Christians with some ideals of our own, and despite how unpleasant an experience it may have been, we need to retain our faith in the God whom we first dared to trust in. I really think those of us who are in a postion to do so, should do a little something to support Boyd and Sheri who have faithfully continued to live out the lives we thought we were first commiting ourselves to. I believe that the strength of our committments to God and ourselves will determine if we are honoured with the opportunity of removing this scourge upon the faithful.
May God be with those seeking his will this festive season. Merry Xmas.
Malcolm
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 26, 2006 12:29AM
My regards to Cultmalleous once more.....
While I think we have to be big enough to be able to acknowledge that Christ died for the likes of David McKay as well, and that a genuine transformation on his part always remains theoretically possible.....after continuing to ignore the same demands for reform (with remonstrances of innocence and smear campaigns against his opponents) that David is to all extents and purposes incorrigible. There is no genuine dialogue.
The only language that David McKay "speaks" is the crude exercise of power (and if we look at the example he sets in his own life...it obviously doesn't matter how we obtain it) If we are able to weigh in on the wider debate with actions that somehow threaten Davids' access to his empire (passport revocation, international person non-grata status with foreign embassies, loss of any of the contracts with the Qakers) we will be "listened to" irrespective of what he may say on his charade of a "public forum" or anywhere else. Court action is just one route towards this goal.
But I think we also need to have a "vision" for the post-MacKay Jesus Christians. By the grace of God, Davids' time in this world is drawing to a close. It is perhaps unreasonable to simply assume (or hope?) that the Jesus Christians will automatically implode. Many of us have been there and done that, and realize that no matter how erroneously, many of the (junior members at least) are protecting David MacKay and participating in the deceit the group practises in the belief that they are doing so in the cause of a "greater good".
I think a dialogue needs to be kept open as far as possible with existing members in the group, given that we understand how easily we could have (or already have been) in their situation. The senior members are of course increasingly complicit (e.g. Roland personally aided and abeted David in the fraudulent removal of Kevin as a member) in what has and is, occuring. They are not "brain-washed zombies"....they know full well what they are part of.....we should nominate who we care to deal with among them....if such souls exist. (I'd personally for example, let Roland spend eternity with David on the current record...)
(Its the ex-members proxy vote for the future "leadership" you see! After all we are the result of the "fruit" of his spirit.....by far the biggest thing that David produces is ex-members...ergo we have a constituency here!!)
We should be able to specifically outline what it is that would cause us to actually consider re-engaging with the "Jesus Christains" were such and such conditions to be met. (Substantial management overhaul, some new policy directions and an entirely new "board of directors" should rank highly I think.) Once Davids in amongst the fire and brimstone, his appointed leader (no doubt one will be groomed for sucession) will likely struggle to retain direction of it all. We should be able to project a positive alternative to the current spiritual autarky.
Lets try to bury the excesses and the hatred with David.
While I think we have to be big enough to be able to acknowledge that Christ died for the likes of David McKay as well, and that a genuine transformation on his part always remains theoretically possible.....after continuing to ignore the same demands for reform (with remonstrances of innocence and smear campaigns against his opponents) that David is to all extents and purposes incorrigible. There is no genuine dialogue.
The only language that David McKay "speaks" is the crude exercise of power (and if we look at the example he sets in his own life...it obviously doesn't matter how we obtain it) If we are able to weigh in on the wider debate with actions that somehow threaten Davids' access to his empire (passport revocation, international person non-grata status with foreign embassies, loss of any of the contracts with the Qakers) we will be "listened to" irrespective of what he may say on his charade of a "public forum" or anywhere else. Court action is just one route towards this goal.
But I think we also need to have a "vision" for the post-MacKay Jesus Christians. By the grace of God, Davids' time in this world is drawing to a close. It is perhaps unreasonable to simply assume (or hope?) that the Jesus Christians will automatically implode. Many of us have been there and done that, and realize that no matter how erroneously, many of the (junior members at least) are protecting David MacKay and participating in the deceit the group practises in the belief that they are doing so in the cause of a "greater good".
I think a dialogue needs to be kept open as far as possible with existing members in the group, given that we understand how easily we could have (or already have been) in their situation. The senior members are of course increasingly complicit (e.g. Roland personally aided and abeted David in the fraudulent removal of Kevin as a member) in what has and is, occuring. They are not "brain-washed zombies"....they know full well what they are part of.....we should nominate who we care to deal with among them....if such souls exist. (I'd personally for example, let Roland spend eternity with David on the current record...)
(Its the ex-members proxy vote for the future "leadership" you see! After all we are the result of the "fruit" of his spirit.....by far the biggest thing that David produces is ex-members...ergo we have a constituency here!!)
We should be able to specifically outline what it is that would cause us to actually consider re-engaging with the "Jesus Christains" were such and such conditions to be met. (Substantial management overhaul, some new policy directions and an entirely new "board of directors" should rank highly I think.) Once Davids in amongst the fire and brimstone, his appointed leader (no doubt one will be groomed for sucession) will likely struggle to retain direction of it all. We should be able to project a positive alternative to the current spiritual autarky.
Lets try to bury the excesses and the hatred with David.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 26, 2006 05:14AM
Quote
It's coming, Friends, and we need to see it as an inseparable part of our decision to follow Christ. In the end, he said that he would cause divisions between us and everyone else who is in opposition to him. In these dark days, that is going to include almost everyone. But we can rejoice, "for so persecuted the prophets which were before you," and we can rejoice because "great is our reward in heaven." Our rejoicing in itself is going to anger them further, but it will all hasten the day of His returning. Burn, brothers, burn!
The above quote is from David McKay about letting their light shine. I find it concerning that he is so deluded and that this delusion is being spread to his followers. Ross, on their forum has said [i:d154b9f221]"Imagine what would happen if we fall into their hands"[/i:d154b9f221]
I seriously think that the fear mongering that David is engaging in to get his followers to rally behind him needs to be considered in any action to be taken against him.
Ross, and ALL others within the JC's, [b:d154b9f221]ex members would do nothing to hurt or harm you in any way.[/b:d154b9f221] It truly saddens me to think that you would even consider that, and it shows just how deeply this fear David has put into you has gone. It is not the following of Jesus that is the object of criticism, rather it is the lies, manipulation, and need for absolute control that David McKay and, as a result of following his example, other leaders enage in.
Malcolm, with respect, and in response to your post. I prefer to be the recipient of any legal action that Dave may instigate against me, as opposed to the one initiating it, as to my way of thinking it makes it eaiser for others to see who is using force to silence whom. And I think that the way they are all thinking now that is important.
Regarding the formation of a new "Jesus Christians" group with some of us at the helm. That is not something I personally am interested in. I would be more in favour of a forum where ex members could share what is going on in their lives, as well as a place where we could each draw encouragement as we recover from the disappointment resulting from being part of something false.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
muppet
()
Date: December 27, 2006 06:10AM
[/quote]muppet
Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 69
Posted: 05-22-2006 10:36 AM Post subject: Deception
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How bizarre!!! Are you still in touch with the young man? Would he post his experience on the board? Perhaps he remembers who was with him in addition to Roland.
Anaglypta is probably wrong about power sharing in the group. Dave McKay has always been the absolute leader of the group and all members have to send him detailed and frequent reports. He has been accused of being a pathological liar and actually admits to deception in one of his articles called 'The Great Escape' where (with the help of his brother Ron McKay who had some connection with the Salvation Army in the US at one stage) he hid an Indian minor from her parents until her 18th birthday and then took her to Australia, cutting her off from everything she was familiar with. In the process of fleeing this Indian village, and in an attempt to avoid detection the McKays deposited their literature in a local well!
He has repeated this recruitment pattern in the UK and more recently in the US where he claims that one of his members was beaten up by the family of the new recruit.
I am reviewing my posts here and this was one of my first last May...how things have moved on!!!
Merry christmas and a very happy and holy New Year to all of you who have continued to post here. A lot has happened on this board since May 2006 and I would like to thank all of you who have contributed to the expose of this wayward group!
Just to summarise what has happened here...
Someone called Liverpool writer wrote a message early on and Jinny the squinney responded at around the time of Rolands arrest in Kenya...
then a few of us who have had negative esperiences with David McKay joined in the discussion
.....Fran came to the board to defend Dave. He failed
.......and Dave himself turned up. He failed too!
Then Dave decided that contributing to the Rick Ross board was a very bad idea as the truth was seeping out to people Dave wanted to retain his reputation with eg Quakers....
Dave then began to dig any dirt he could about Rick Ross... and to disuade others from `posting about him here...then inviting them to the JC site...
He then reopened his own forum in order to control the flow of information about him... and to gleam any information he could about the identity of the posters (Dave has not had a forum for years because his last attempt was also flooded with the truth about the JC´s so he closed it down years ago)
The result of all this is that a new group of ex members have now surfaced to tell the same story...that the JCs are a wayward and dangerous cult.
Dave fails again!
Merry Christmas to everyone here....
ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!!![/color:9da6e00001]
Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 69
Posted: 05-22-2006 10:36 AM Post subject: Deception
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How bizarre!!! Are you still in touch with the young man? Would he post his experience on the board? Perhaps he remembers who was with him in addition to Roland.
Anaglypta is probably wrong about power sharing in the group. Dave McKay has always been the absolute leader of the group and all members have to send him detailed and frequent reports. He has been accused of being a pathological liar and actually admits to deception in one of his articles called 'The Great Escape' where (with the help of his brother Ron McKay who had some connection with the Salvation Army in the US at one stage) he hid an Indian minor from her parents until her 18th birthday and then took her to Australia, cutting her off from everything she was familiar with. In the process of fleeing this Indian village, and in an attempt to avoid detection the McKays deposited their literature in a local well!
He has repeated this recruitment pattern in the UK and more recently in the US where he claims that one of his members was beaten up by the family of the new recruit.
I am reviewing my posts here and this was one of my first last May...how things have moved on!!!
Merry christmas and a very happy and holy New Year to all of you who have continued to post here. A lot has happened on this board since May 2006 and I would like to thank all of you who have contributed to the expose of this wayward group!
Just to summarise what has happened here...
Someone called Liverpool writer wrote a message early on and Jinny the squinney responded at around the time of Rolands arrest in Kenya...
then a few of us who have had negative esperiences with David McKay joined in the discussion
.....Fran came to the board to defend Dave. He failed
.......and Dave himself turned up. He failed too!
Then Dave decided that contributing to the Rick Ross board was a very bad idea as the truth was seeping out to people Dave wanted to retain his reputation with eg Quakers....
Dave then began to dig any dirt he could about Rick Ross... and to disuade others from `posting about him here...then inviting them to the JC site...
He then reopened his own forum in order to control the flow of information about him... and to gleam any information he could about the identity of the posters (Dave has not had a forum for years because his last attempt was also flooded with the truth about the JC´s so he closed it down years ago)
The result of all this is that a new group of ex members have now surfaced to tell the same story...that the JCs are a wayward and dangerous cult.
Dave fails again!
Merry Christmas to everyone here....
ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!!![/color:9da6e00001]
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: December 28, 2006 01:46AM
Thank you for the good summary muppet. The Jesus Christians under the odious leadership of the aging Dave Makay is resorting to increasingly extreme means in order to get publicity and achieve their ends but he is also burning out and his repititive and predictible statements.
McKay used Fox LA to garner publicity for his group and force the police to take action against the family of a new recruit, despite their initial claims that the flogging respesented a new type of JC justice. Just one more lie in a catogue of lies that represents Daves life.
Malcolm, your comments and suggestions are very understandable, although I doubt entirely that any ex members would wish to return to a group that has rotten roots. The group has developed under corrupt and questionable leadership and is in iteself entirely rotten. The members are not zombies but they are under mind control and will all sing the same song as Dave. Why else would a mother such as Cherry ignore her children and grandchildren. She has donated her will to her husband.
Why did he become so corrupt? Was he always so corrupt or is it all post Berg ? Puzzling!
McKay used Fox LA to garner publicity for his group and force the police to take action against the family of a new recruit, despite their initial claims that the flogging respesented a new type of JC justice. Just one more lie in a catogue of lies that represents Daves life.
Malcolm, your comments and suggestions are very understandable, although I doubt entirely that any ex members would wish to return to a group that has rotten roots. The group has developed under corrupt and questionable leadership and is in iteself entirely rotten. The members are not zombies but they are under mind control and will all sing the same song as Dave. Why else would a mother such as Cherry ignore her children and grandchildren. She has donated her will to her husband.
Why did he become so corrupt? Was he always so corrupt or is it all post Berg ? Puzzling!
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 28, 2006 03:15PM
Dear Matilda,
Why so corrupt? Take David out of the Jesus Christians and put him in a church in a suit (where he came from I might add) and he would not be out of place.....and his opinions and behaviour would be tempered by those around him...no doubt you have heard the thought that "a man's vices are his strengths in excess"....David has made some brave and lonely decisions over time, and has endeavoured (I believe) at some point to "go where no one has gone before" in practising the scriptures, but in a (self-created) situation where he refuses to modify his interpretation of scripture to accommodate others (...witnessed by the political assinations in his little empire)....autocratic tendencies have multiplied and sriptural "interpretations of convenience" have become increasingly common practice.
Sadly it is likely many of us would become precisely the same if we were to have the same conceit....(I'm more sincere before God than you because I take his words more literally than you....hence you have no authority to convey the will of God)
Malcolm
Why so corrupt? Take David out of the Jesus Christians and put him in a church in a suit (where he came from I might add) and he would not be out of place.....and his opinions and behaviour would be tempered by those around him...no doubt you have heard the thought that "a man's vices are his strengths in excess"....David has made some brave and lonely decisions over time, and has endeavoured (I believe) at some point to "go where no one has gone before" in practising the scriptures, but in a (self-created) situation where he refuses to modify his interpretation of scripture to accommodate others (...witnessed by the political assinations in his little empire)....autocratic tendencies have multiplied and sriptural "interpretations of convenience" have become increasingly common practice.
Sadly it is likely many of us would become precisely the same if we were to have the same conceit....(I'm more sincere before God than you because I take his words more literally than you....hence you have no authority to convey the will of God)
Malcolm
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 28, 2006 07:35PM
Dear Apostate,
Pardon me if I was unclear earlier. I was not advocating a "return to the fold", more that we play the role of "Agent Provocateur". I believe that we have more impact that what we might credit ourselves for. Despite Davids bluster about simply ignoring the embittered souls out to get him, the JC's are quietly watching this site.
The policy decisions to offer a 'trial week" for those interested in joining, welcoming the visits of parents and encouraging the formation of a wider support group of non-members are all changes that have taken place since I left and I think represent a (subliminal??) desire to "normalize" relations.
David of course only permits "normalization" to the point that it does not threaten him or his agenda....witness his laughable attempts at "cutting rejoinders" to Kevin recently in defence of his earlier treachery on his own "forum".
But David want to know how to "broaden" his appeal....lets tell him plainly on this forum!!! Hes' out there listening!!
Pardon me if I was unclear earlier. I was not advocating a "return to the fold", more that we play the role of "Agent Provocateur". I believe that we have more impact that what we might credit ourselves for. Despite Davids bluster about simply ignoring the embittered souls out to get him, the JC's are quietly watching this site.
The policy decisions to offer a 'trial week" for those interested in joining, welcoming the visits of parents and encouraging the formation of a wider support group of non-members are all changes that have taken place since I left and I think represent a (subliminal??) desire to "normalize" relations.
David of course only permits "normalization" to the point that it does not threaten him or his agenda....witness his laughable attempts at "cutting rejoinders" to Kevin recently in defence of his earlier treachery on his own "forum".
But David want to know how to "broaden" his appeal....lets tell him plainly on this forum!!! Hes' out there listening!!
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