Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: December 28, 2006 10:36PM
You believe the myths!!!
The trial week is designed to hold the newbie, it involves more ínreach´rather than the normal´outreach´. It is a reprogramming exercise and very few who go through it leave after it.
Parents visits, another myth. Joe´s parents will not be alowed anywhere near Joe until they change their views of the group completely. Dave does not tolerate visits from anyone he considers to be a threat. Relations are kept away until they are so desperate that they will do anything to see their relative. In some cases it is 2 years before the newbie sees their old friends and relatives.
Encouraging the formation of a wider support group of non members ´´ ? is also a myth. The only non members who have access to the JC´s are those they can use and even then, they are always seen as potential members or at the very least as ´kings and queens´ ( Family term for supporters of the group)
Put Dave in a suit and he would not fit in most churches I know! Churches are accountable, their financial records are open to the public, their recruitment methods are straighfoward, their members are rarely required to cut their ties with society and the church works in support of and for the benefit of the local community.
The JC´s financial records are secret, they are not registered either as a religion or a charity, their members recruitment is often a complete surprise to their friends/ relations because they are encouraged to lie about it/ frightened into lying about it and although they will claim off the system, they will not contribute to it. Even the most secluded religious orders will look after their aging members as they need more support, the JC´s merely claim whatever benefits are available from their country of residence.
Dave´s group can not be compared to even the most corrupt church. It can be compared to the Family and Dave has copied most of his publicity stunts directly from them.
The Baby books are copied.
The sackcloth and ashes ruse was copied.
The forsake all policy was copied.
The litnessing policy was copied.
The list is endless.
The trial week is designed to hold the newbie, it involves more ínreach´rather than the normal´outreach´. It is a reprogramming exercise and very few who go through it leave after it.
Parents visits, another myth. Joe´s parents will not be alowed anywhere near Joe until they change their views of the group completely. Dave does not tolerate visits from anyone he considers to be a threat. Relations are kept away until they are so desperate that they will do anything to see their relative. In some cases it is 2 years before the newbie sees their old friends and relatives.
Encouraging the formation of a wider support group of non members ´´ ? is also a myth. The only non members who have access to the JC´s are those they can use and even then, they are always seen as potential members or at the very least as ´kings and queens´ ( Family term for supporters of the group)
Put Dave in a suit and he would not fit in most churches I know! Churches are accountable, their financial records are open to the public, their recruitment methods are straighfoward, their members are rarely required to cut their ties with society and the church works in support of and for the benefit of the local community.
The JC´s financial records are secret, they are not registered either as a religion or a charity, their members recruitment is often a complete surprise to their friends/ relations because they are encouraged to lie about it/ frightened into lying about it and although they will claim off the system, they will not contribute to it. Even the most secluded religious orders will look after their aging members as they need more support, the JC´s merely claim whatever benefits are available from their country of residence.
Dave´s group can not be compared to even the most corrupt church. It can be compared to the Family and Dave has copied most of his publicity stunts directly from them.
The Baby books are copied.
The sackcloth and ashes ruse was copied.
The forsake all policy was copied.
The litnessing policy was copied.
The list is endless.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 29, 2006 04:43AM
Quote
Malcolm Wesley WRESTQuote
The policy decisions to offer a 'trial week" for those interested in joining, welcoming the visits of parents and encouraging the formation of a wider support group of non-members are all changes that have taken place since I left and I think represent a (subliminal??) desire to "normalize" relations.
I think you are mistaking his chameleon tactics for a "subliminal" desire to normalise relations. But if you see such things as being a subliminal desire to change for the better, I encourage you to open dialogue with him drawing those points out. You may succeed where others have failed.Quote
But David want to know how to "broaden" his appeal....lets tell him plainly on this forum!!! Hes' out there listening!!
It seems you are thinking in a similar fashion to David McKay, in that you start off with an assertion that he subliminaly wants to normalise/broaden his relations/appeal; and then using that assertion, prompt us to respond as though this was fact.
If you have read this thread to this point you would have seen that several ex members have tried to tell him repeatedly how to change for the better. Some of us have even gone to his own forum to do so, only to be banned and threatened with legal action to silence us... not the actions of someone with a subliminal desire to normalise relations I would think. But, if you see such things that way, then I encourage you to follow such thinking through to its conclusion and open dialogue with him.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 29, 2006 02:08PM
An inspiring quote from David Mckay
[b:3384e54ec8][i:3384e54ec8]Pain seems to be the most humane and speedy form of human punishment. We could whip them strongly, without doing any damage to their teeth, brain, or spine. And it would all be over in just a few minutes[/i:3384e54ec8][/b:3384e54ec8]
SOURCE: [cust.idl.net.au] (accessed 29 Dec. 2006)
[b:3384e54ec8][i:3384e54ec8]Pain seems to be the most humane and speedy form of human punishment. We could whip them strongly, without doing any damage to their teeth, brain, or spine. And it would all be over in just a few minutes[/i:3384e54ec8][/b:3384e54ec8]
SOURCE: [cust.idl.net.au] (accessed 29 Dec. 2006)
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 29, 2006 02:17PM
Dear Apostate,
I apologize if I was "railroading" discussion with unproven assertions on my part....but you are right I have never bothered to post on JC's forum as others have done...let me try that before making further comment...
I apologize if I was "railroading" discussion with unproven assertions on my part....but you are right I have never bothered to post on JC's forum as others have done...let me try that before making further comment...
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 29, 2006 03:39PM
No problems Malcolm, I would be interested in how it goes for you.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 29, 2006 10:53PM
Dear Apostate,
Well...further apologies....this is the first time I've sat down and seriously looked through the postings forums on the JC's forum (which I suggest we nickname "Davidspeak" from now on)......perhaps you know of one....but I could not find a single attempt to address the issues you, or other raised....it was a grim and sad read.....but let me remain on record as hoping that a dialogue may be possible one day, it obviously isn't at the moment....and banning who they think to be Tony and Kevin, just about sums it up doesn't it...(did that follow Davids' similar treatment, here?....."tit for tat"?)
Without having posted previously, I didn't realize that I'd already rated a few mentions at the current time (and have been "honoured" with even my own thread???) and what I have read there has made it clear that a direct contribution on my part would be pointless at this time. Unfortunately Back to Plan A....
(To our silent audience...)
David and Roland were complicit in the illegal (by your own rules!) of Kevin McKay when Kevin questioned the concentration of decision making in Davids' hands. Do you EVER independantly verify what David tells you?
Everyone of you is completely "expendable" in the eyes of David McKay! ...Some of you will be joining us on this very forum one day in the future.
You're no longer employed at the Boys Home in Petersham are you David. If I've been able to do that once....perhaps I'll be able to pull something similar off again............by the grace of God we shall see.
Well...further apologies....this is the first time I've sat down and seriously looked through the postings forums on the JC's forum (which I suggest we nickname "Davidspeak" from now on)......perhaps you know of one....but I could not find a single attempt to address the issues you, or other raised....it was a grim and sad read.....but let me remain on record as hoping that a dialogue may be possible one day, it obviously isn't at the moment....and banning who they think to be Tony and Kevin, just about sums it up doesn't it...(did that follow Davids' similar treatment, here?....."tit for tat"?)
Without having posted previously, I didn't realize that I'd already rated a few mentions at the current time (and have been "honoured" with even my own thread???) and what I have read there has made it clear that a direct contribution on my part would be pointless at this time. Unfortunately Back to Plan A....
(To our silent audience...)
David and Roland were complicit in the illegal (by your own rules!) of Kevin McKay when Kevin questioned the concentration of decision making in Davids' hands. Do you EVER independantly verify what David tells you?
Everyone of you is completely "expendable" in the eyes of David McKay! ...Some of you will be joining us on this very forum one day in the future.
You're no longer employed at the Boys Home in Petersham are you David. If I've been able to do that once....perhaps I'll be able to pull something similar off again............by the grace of God we shall see.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: December 30, 2006 04:18AM
G'day Apostate,
Does McKay hate God that much?
Admittedly I have limited knowledge of the Bible myth, but the above quote could easily have come from the mouth of Satan. I mean, it's as if he thinks Christian love (divine love :?: ) can be attained by exercising cruelty and violence on God's own children.
Quote
Pain seems to be the most humane and speedy form of human punishment. We could whip them strongly, without doing any damage to their teeth, brain, or spine. And it would all be over in just a few minutes...[i:6affbc28ee]David McKay[/i:6affbc28ee]
Does McKay hate God that much?
Admittedly I have limited knowledge of the Bible myth, but the above quote could easily have come from the mouth of Satan. I mean, it's as if he thinks Christian love (divine love :?: ) can be attained by exercising cruelty and violence on God's own children.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 30, 2006 04:45AM
Another inspiring quote from David McKay
[i:e8da1b8ed0][b:e8da1b8ed0]There is no contradiction between me talking about killing someone to save someone else's life, and other members saying that they would strongly question any interpretation of the teachings of Jesus that said we should kill our enemies rather than love and forgive them.[/b:e8da1b8ed0][/i:e8da1b8ed0]
Source: [welikejesus.com] (accessed 30 December 2006)[/i]
[i:e8da1b8ed0][b:e8da1b8ed0]There is no contradiction between me talking about killing someone to save someone else's life, and other members saying that they would strongly question any interpretation of the teachings of Jesus that said we should kill our enemies rather than love and forgive them.[/b:e8da1b8ed0][/i:e8da1b8ed0]
Source: [welikejesus.com] (accessed 30 December 2006)[/i]
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: December 30, 2006 04:58AM
In light of the previous two quotes from David McKay he has audacity to throw out a challenge.
[b:cf59be3e40][i:cf59be3e40]Now we challenge anyone to show us someone who is more serious about teaching people to obey Jesus than we are[/i:cf59be3e40][/b:cf59be3e40]... Dave.
Dave, the list would be too long.
[b:cf59be3e40][i:cf59be3e40]Now we challenge anyone to show us someone who is more serious about teaching people to obey Jesus than we are[/i:cf59be3e40][/b:cf59be3e40]... Dave.
Dave, the list would be too long.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: December 30, 2006 10:31AM
Quote
Now we challenge anyone to show us someone who is more serious about teaching people to obey Jesus than we are... Dave.
What a joke!
MKcKay forbids a mother from visiting her own children
Breaks up other peoples families
hides potential recruits until they are 18 (but does not call that kidnapping!)
whips people as a publicity stunt!
and thinks that he is following Jesus!
Jesus NEVER did any of that and NEVER encouraged others to do so.
If McKay was even remotely sincere about finding out the truth, he would know that.
The onus for this challenge is with McKay. If he is serious about following Jesus, I challenge him to change what he does--
Stop forbidding a mother from visiting her own children
Stop breaking up other peoples families
Stop the crazy publicity stunts
Stop ´hiding´underage recruits. This is just imitating Berg´s catacombers!
Start being honest rather than just stating your dishonesty
Stop telling lies
Start being more like Jesus
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