Broken families and broken lives seems to the legacy of most cult leaders.

I am so shocked to hear that even though the trial took place, the family have now been charged with assualt.

I think a few of us here should submit some information about the provocative nature of this group. any thoughts?
I dont condone violence but I think the next trial needs to be fair.

matilda, from what I understand, Reinhard (a JC friend of Joe's) was seriously assaulted by at least one member of his family to the point where he could have died. I agree that the individual(s) responsible should be charged with assault. I understand Joe's family must be frustrated, but serious assault is a terrible thing that cannot be justified. It only drives Joe further away anyway.

Something I just remembered, and vividly, is that James is the one who I met on the street and who gave me the Liberator comic and a business card with an address and phone number at which I could reach the US Team. A short while later, I called the number on the card and Sue was the one who answered. That's how I met her. We got to talking and she was very very persuasive to a curious person who'd met them on the street; mind you, I was a very new believer at that point in time, could have been very susceptible, and not as Biblically studied and discerning as I like to think I am now. When I met the JCs I was 28 years old. By the time we got done talking she had put a bunch of Scriptures together and made me feel like I had to join with the JCs RIGHT THEN or else risk my salvation. Sue made an impression on me for sure. She especially used James 1:22-25 to make it seem like I had to decide RIGHT NOW. So, part out of curiosity, and part bacause I felt that God was moving me to check it out, I went for the "trial week". As I've told you before, I left after about an hour. They were really weird. And I've followed their activities ever since, all this time after that encounter in Dallas. I've always had a bad, bad feeling about them in my gut. I could tell something was drastically wrong way before I met the online community. This was almost five years ago that I met them in Dallas. Did anybody notice how thin and gaunt most of the JCs in the video were?
Look, I realize that as a believer I am supposed to pray for those who do evil and all, but quite honestly: in the flesh, when it comes to Dave McKay (and I know I've never met the man so tell me if I am out in left field here) I say "screw him"; I think of him the same way I'd think of somebody who rapes kids. I have no mercy nor compassion in my heart for people who do that sort of thing. Same with McKay, except in my mind he's worse, more perverse than a guy who rapes kids. Sorry if the content of this message is too graphic for you; I'm just trying to put a fine point on what I am driving at here. Because like I said he rapes [i:520088c678]minds[/i:520088c678] and kills [i:520088c678]souls.[/i:520088c678] And so I really don't feel sorry for the man. He ought to be locked up forever. He's like another type of serial rapist, he's just found a legal way to take what he wants by force and f**k people's minds in the process...I think of Sue and how vacant her manner was when I met her. There is no more Sue, you know? Something was obviously very wrong with her...like she was there, but she wasn't. That's the best way I can articulate it. Obviously stuck in some kind of cycle of cognitive dissonance jarring enough to her mind to put her in this kind of, well, trance state for what appears to be a very, very long time...mental limbo, complete submission. So sad...Joe, if you are reading this you are in my prayers. Sue, if you are please drop me a line to let me know you're OK.

What got me was Dave's response to the reporter when she said he was humiliating the family. He got a little bug eyed, as though annoyed that someone would dare say something contrary to him, talking down to her, "Look they humiliated themselves, alright". Right there you could see that angry glint in his eyes. He is still the same guy. Angry before, and angry now.

Dave if you are reading this. That coverage did nothing to win you any support. Your anger and self righteousness was all that came through. So I reckon you should drop this whole thing and get back to a more moderate message. You won't have Joe for long. The sad thing is you know that, and don't give a shit. To you he is just media fodder.

Your followers really are just young pups who are still wet behind the ears. There is no sense of equality between you and them at all. They fear you, and you know it.

That video was very hard to watch. Those young idealistic people having their minds warped by a such a sick guy. He is using them in a terrible way.

The whole situation was obviously causing Joe a lot of pain. I know he will feel guilt and shame over his comments to his father. I hope his parents know that he shouldn't be held accountable for those harsh comments. He was probably primed beforehand by Dave.

The end was pretty pathetic with Dave trying to act scared while someone phones the police to escort them away.

I think Apostate is right, I can't see that video doing anything to win support for the group. I know Dave will say the only thing that matters is getting the message out. Well, I think it worked in that sense. The message I read was, we are a group of young people following a man. We want to serve God but somehow we have ended up following this guy and taking part in his crazy publicity stunts. Please pray for us!

Dave has shown , yet again, the depth of his hatred for his members and for their families. He enjoys this power trip, even as he cried out in pain. I agree Apostate, that he remains angry but it is more than that, there is actual hatred. He enjoyed the pain and anguish that he caused to others there. That sudden angry glint in his eye that is so familiar to ex members.

Interesting that he got a Police escort out of the building. Were his wings not working?

People still ask 'is he dangerous?' The report answers the question quite
clearly.

As for Joe's comments to his family. Yes, Joe would have been primed to say this, just as Bobby K was primed to say ' they dont eat babies' McKay expects his followers to demonstrate their commitment to 'God the Father' (Dave the father) and that they really have forsaken all, hence the statement.

It reminds me of that Prime Time Live piece on Jim Roberts. There is that segment near the very end when the Fosters got to speak with their son Kraig, whom they hadn't seen or spoken with in 14 years. He told them as he rode off to greive him permanently, that he was gone. So hardbreaking to see his family go through that. See the video here:

[www.culteducation.com]

Watching Joe's reaction to his father reminded me of Kriag Foster. That I particularly was saddened by. The way that Dave uses his young recruits' best intentions and idealism against them.

Also, I noticed Dave's reaction to the reporter's question abuout humiliating Joe's parents too, it's as if he said: "No, it's THEIR fault that I'm such an a**hole." Like he's just angry at the whole world. His parents must have seriously abused him.

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cultmalleus
matilda, from what I understand, Reinhard (a JC friend of Joe's) was seriously assaulted by at least one member of his family to the point where he could have died.


Yes, I agree that this is the allegation. From what I know and understand of Dave McKay, he is more than a little inclined to sensationalise and exaggerate. I would like to see and hear the evidence from both sides. I read somewhere that Reinhard had his eyes open and could see but that he was unconcious? Is that possible. [/color:6f1096ffd1]

I agree that the individual(s) responsible should be charged with assault. I understand Joe's family must be frustrated, but serious assault is a terrible thing that cannot be justified. It only drives Joe further away anyway.

Yes, I also believe that violence is wrong. However, I would like to know what actually happened on that night. I did not see nor did not read any interviews or acounts given by the family. Can you tell me what exactly the circumstances were? [/color:6f1096ffd1]




[/quote]

Rick is probably going to complain again that I have the audacity to call a lie a lie, but I want to remind people here that Joe (you know, the guy you are all so deeply concerned about) was not speaking to his family when he shouted, "Go away! I don't know you!" He was shouting at the thugs who were chasing our guys and shouting abuses. Joe knows who he was yelling at and he knows that Fox News deliberately misinterpreted it. So the more mileage you guys and Fox News tries to make out of that lie, the more you are going to antagonise Joe.

Sympathise with Joe all you like, but what I have tried to tell parents for many years is that if you twist the facts in such a way as to be seen by your own child as lying, then it will only drive them further away. I wrote to Joe's parents myself, urging them to just keep a positive relationship with him, letting him know that they are there for him if he ever wants to leave. I'm assuming it's the same advice that Rick would give them.