Dave McKay says:

Quote

"I have, during the past month, probably spent more time than I ought to browsing through what our enemies are saying about us over on the Rick Ross forum. There, surrounded by people who pump them full of flattery whenever they say something hateful, safely hidden behind pseudonuyms, and firmly protected by Rick's control of the delete button, they find themselves saying the sort of things they would never say in public.

But still they say it, and so I got the chance to be a fly on the wall in terms of what must go on almost constantly in some circles of our most devout critics.

And this is what I discovered:

They express a lot of emotion. In fact, I would say that well over 90% of what they say is just that... hatred, expressed in the bitterest possible terms, but nothing more. I am described as worst than a rapist or a murderer, guilty of twisting their minds and sucking the life out of them. They talk about protecting the world from me, about me being cruel, callous, narcissistic, starved for attention, a sick publicity seeker... you get the idea. Every kind act performed by any member of the Jesus Christians is interpreted only as a depraved act of subsurvience to me. They talk, for example, about people donating kidneys as though they all end up in my own personal dinner each night! When they have nothing else to say, they start imagining what we must be doing, and believe me, it's pretty wild.

But take away all of the emotion and fantasy, and what is left? Virtually nothing. A bit disappointing, really. I mean *I* could mount a better case against myself (in terms of hard, cold facts) than what they have been able to mount.

There have been calls for people to scour the world to see what they can learn about my finances, assured that there must be some hidden wealth that has gone undeclared. Attempts have been made to find some law that I have broken, some individual that I have struck, or some heresy that I have been guilty of. They may eventually find something, but so far their searches have been almost totally fruitless.

A few of them have come to this forum, but one by one they leave, more bitter than ever, frustrated that they were not able to get away with the kind of baseless emotionalism that is so much appreciated at their own hate David parties and on the RR forum.

In another article ("Solid as a Rock") I state that our defence is airtight basically because we have obeyed Jesus and built our lives on his teachings. Like the wise man in the story, we have built our house on a rock, and the storms cannot shake it.

It's really an extension of that principle that our houses are kind of earthquake proof as well. You know, when you want to build something that can withstand an earthquake, it has to have some flexibility... not be absolutely solid. And I see this with regard to a recognition of our own sinfulness.

So if one of us tells a lie in order to be allowed to donate a kidney, we just come right out and say, "Yep, we told a lie" You know, there isn't much they can do to you after the truth comes out. It's only stupid leaders who try to pretend that they do not do such things who get themselves into the worst scandals. ("I did NOT have sex with Ms. Lewinsky! Ha! He would have never been impeached if he had just said, "Yeah, I did it, and it was very stupid of me. I'm terribly sorry.")

It's not very nice having your whole life examined under a microscope (especially when you're as hot-tempered as I am), but in the end, it's character-building in its own way. An international campaign to discredit me is about to take off, and my own kids are being sought as key witnesses. Well, okay, let the fireworks begin. And God, please help me to humbly accept any truth they come up with against me, and not to blow up! (Definitely not easy when it's my worst weakness!)"

It's like he now is saying "hahahaha you've got nothing on me!" to the whole world. We'll see how much blood is on your hands once your kids speak up. You can't have them so now you have to go other people's, huh?

I can't speak for Apostate or any of the others, Dave, as I've only met you one time and even then it was over the phone, and briefly. Do you remember that? I am warning people about you the same way I'd warn them if there were a known serial rapist on the loose. But, I am not your enemy, nor am I being carried away by emotion and misguided sensationalism. I am attempting to help prevent more people from being hurt by you, whether you realize the damage you've done or not.

[]
On the weLikejesus site MISTER DAVE MKAY SAID 'No, I was not abused in my childhood. That's a myth that you have dreamt up yourself. And no, our kids have not been abused either. They have each grown into strong-willed, independent thinkers. We don't agree on everything, but I'm proud of each of them. I believe that their independence (as well as their self-discipline in their chosen fields) are qualities that they gained largely from the influence of Cherry and myself.

They each stayed with the community until well into their twenties, and when they did leave (the three who did), they took with them traits that have helped to make them great today. They have their disagreements with Cherry and myself (very strongly at times), but they have never voiced them publicly, even though they have been put under great pressure from people who hate what we stand for to turn on us and condemn us. '

WHY did you people not vioce them publcily. If you had. some of us mgiht not have beenin there listening to rants rants rants, nightmare. When something iswrong U should dpeak out. You silence helps him trp us.

I read over there at your website that the T-Shirts were printed exclusively for the TV cameras, for the purpose of getting the URL to your website out. I guess this means you can't send me one so I can wear it around town and warn people about you? Now you're making your people wear [i:b6d7951a2a]uniforms?[/i:b6d7951a2a]

zeuszor:

Would you please edit the previous post a bit where you are seemingly quoting Dave McKay? It's a bit confusing.

Sorry so sloppy. Is that better?

DM says

Quote

I got the chance to be a fly on the wall in terms of what must go on almost constantly in some circles of our most devout critics.

And this is what I discovered:

They express a lot of emotion. In fact, I would say that well over 90% of what they say is

DM [i:f820fd2ecd]discovered[/i:f820fd2ecd] that 90 % of what we post is emotion and reports his findings to the group! One explanation of his lack of empathy is that he may, like other dysfunctioning leaders, display symtoms of emotional processing problems.

Expressing emotion and having emotional ties are frowned on within the group. Expressions of emotion are considered weakness and members are led to detach or dissociate.

One of the purposes of emotion is to protect us, to help us defend our minds, bodies and societies, and also to form attachments and bond with others in relationships, families, groups and societies. Recruits are manipulated emotionally instilling FEAR initially. :shock: :shock: :lol: :P :wink: :roll: :twisted: :P :x :D :o :lol: :roll: :wink:

Here is the URL to the site where Dave explains how the T-shirts were for getting the URL out:

[welikejesus.com]

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


Dave, here we are taught that men of God must have the OWN house in order before giving themselves to teaching and the rest of Our Lord's work. You have emotionally and psychologically abused your own kids, you probably still abuse your wife, and now you prey upon other people's children because most of your own have broken free of you. You have not owned up to any of the pain you have inflicted on others, your own family, much less apologised or tried to make amends. You should straighten out your own household instead of going and screwing up other people's. How come most of your own kids won't have anything to do with you, Dave?

From:

[welikejesus.com]

"Rob wrote:
The other thing, is who cares if the system recognises our authority or not? Why is that important? It is truth and justice in God's eyes that is really what matters."


It seems to matter to Paul:

Romans 12:9-13:11 wrote:
Let love be without hypocrisy Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.

Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;

not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;

rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,

contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.

Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.

Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.

"BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Romans 13

Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;

for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.

For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.

Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

we nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.


"Rob wrote:
would argue that EVERYONE is under God's authority (whether they like it or not!) and that God is going to judge the world and he may even use us to do it!"

1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?


I will start by saying that of course everyone is under God's authority. I will also say that not everybody is under the Jesus Christians. The group is not synonymous with God, nor are they claimants on His authority.

You'll note that Paul's argument in the passage you referred to was that since the saints would judge the world in the future, then surely we could resolve internal squabbles among ourselves without referring to external authority. Putting that back into the issue at hand, the ones being punished are not members of the Church, nor of the Jesus Christians, and so it is not an internal matter, and the Jesus Christians have no right to dictate.

Also, here's some context to that verse you quoted, a few verses before:

1 Corinthians 5:12 wrote:
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?"






Another thing I can't figure out is why Dave and his followers will say on the one hand that they are not subject to system authority, system rules, and yet use that same authority and those same rules to their advantage when it suits them? Why say that the whole point of the trial and whippings was to show that they operate independant of authority and were doing this [i:dffcf7c726]instead of [/i:dffcf7c726] prosecuting Joe's Dad and brother criminally, but then went ahead and did so anyway? Why does Dave feign
fear and call the very cops he is so contemptuous of? Didn't you stage this whole thing to be a big commercial for the Jesus Christians, except you didn't reckon it'd backfire, did you Dave? How arrogant and self-entitled are you? You need to make peace with your own children Dave, not lash out at the world by pimping out other people's on the street to sell your stupid books and whoring for publicity. You made yourself look like an a**hole on TV.