Be careful, folks, about not getting too impatient for a response. It's not unrealistic to consider that Fred doesn't have constant access to the forum. It was only last night (Aussie time) that he last posted.
[b:c5f974d7d9]On the other hand, if you are talking about the fact that he has evaded any comments or questions for which he has no answer, [/b:c5f974d7d9]that's the most common tactic for critics who are not really looking for the truth.
You'll see a lot of that when people come on to fire away and then disappear if the questions get too hard. It's the wonderful thing about the forum... people get to make their criticisms public, BUT (and it's a big but) they also have to accept that their criticisms are going to be criticised... and dishonest people don't like that.
[b:c5f974d7d9]not really looking for the truth.
I hope you can overcome your prejudices of my pseudonym. I know that ‘mother’ has negative connotations in the community. However, I choose to represent myself this way because that is what I am – a female and a mother. I am also an ex-member and have recently discovered these posts. I am disappointed by the childishness of some of the comments from both sides, really.
The reasons I left the community were simple- I saw with my own eyes the poor way that women and children were treated in the community.
* The lifestyle meant that women did the lion-share of the menial work. Women were expected to do the washing, cleaning, shopping, and cooking for up to twenty men, on top of home-schooling and maintaining leaflet distribution quotas.
* Children needed to be quiet for extended periods of time. If they made too much noise in meetings they were smacked forcefully and repeatedly.
* Parents were forced by Dave to discipline their children (if for example Dave thought the one to three year old was talking or laughing too much).
* Children were made to eat the cheaper food items while Dave asked for the nicer cuts of meat on his sandwiches (Kids growing bodies need the better nutrition)
* I saw Dave’s example of a very unhappy marriage. I don’t need to go into detail here Dave, but let’s say force and domination is not a way to show love. To Cherry my heart bleeds for you – there are counselors and people who could help you overcome your emotional pain-it’s never too late.
* Women and children were often put in their place through verbal insults. Some women in the group have been made too feel too dumb, mentally unstable or weak.
On a whole I think the Jesus Christians is a small group of people who need one another. I know that a lot of people have come from abusive backgrounds. I learned that my reason for joining was the same. However I wish you could see that Dave continues the abusive pattern in your life. He was abused as a child, he abuses you. He mostly abuses women and children, but also weak males like Ross, Martin and Roland.
As a concerned mother my heart is full of grief at the lives you’ve lost. You replaced the abuse and neglect from your childhoods to abuse from Dave. Deep down you know I’m right.
Guys, there is a loving God free from abuse and put-downs, manipulation and control. A loving God who doesn’t need your works to love you. A God that is happy if you walk hand in hand with your children, a God happy for you to have two kidneys and a penis that fires fertile bullets. A loving God who doesn’t need you to whip others for him to believe you love him. Truly.
God loves you…
Jesus was a pacifist…
Let the children come to him…
I have also posted this on the www.welikejesus.com forum
Hmmm i have looked over alot of this thread and it's really sad to see some of you people attacking Dave McKay.
Wrong Glenn. There are a lot of people criticising his actions and teachings. People who know more about his behavior than you seem to.
Some questions for you Glenn:
Are you sad?
Do you think we are all making it up?
Are all our experiences simply fantasies to be ignored?Quote
I am a Christian (no not a JC) and it seems to me, none of you have any idea of forgivness, letting go of the past and love.
So if some of us have been treated badly by Dave we should just let it go and forget it rather than tell it for how it was. Ex cult members need to be able to express themselves in order to let go of the past. Concerned mother posted her concerns, all of which were valid I might add, on the JC forum only to be told she was wrong. And that is the thing, right there, that is criticised by some of us. The JC's deny other people their feelings, their understanding of what is happening to them. Instead it is reinterpreted to make them appear rebellious because the alternate for the JC's is to accept that they are a cult that runs rough shod over the top of people..Quote
It is silly that people are still holding petty grudges after years after leaving, get on with life, so you didnt like it in the JC, kewl but dont wallow in self pity all your life, playing the victim is only good for so long than it get pathetic.
Are you in Australia Glenn? If so, do you view Australia's indigenous population seeking an apology from the Australian government years after the stolen generation to be pathetic, and a sign that they are wallowing in self pity? That fact is Glenn, even though you seem to deny it, a lot of people have been hurt by their time in the Jesus Christians. Sure we can choose to forget it all and move on, and to some extent a lot of us have done that. But frankly since the move to more radical behavior, i.e. whipping people, it has become neccessary to speak up exposing the cult for how it really is.Quote
From what i've seen Dave and other JC I have spoken to a really nice people, i wish i could say the same for some of you in here.
Tell you what Glenn, join the JC's. Sell everything you own, give all the money away and go on the street distributing tracts with them for a year meeting all your quotas. Leave all your family members behind, quit your job, and accept that all mail will be scrutinised by leaders. Get involved in a few grievance meetings where you are the target. It won't be hard because it will be part of the breaking down process. New meat always goes through a honeymoon stage, at least a week or two. So Glenn Join up. Nothing like first hand experience to help a person see what is really going on. Seriously from your position it will be hard for you to know what is true. All you have to go on are people's word.
You have said the JC's are really nice people. Well, we are really nice people too Glenn, but that will be a little harder for you to see because we challenge Dave's erroneous teachings. So Go for it, join them. Become part of the 144,000 virgins of God making a visible tribe of Israel on earth before the return of Jesus.Quote
Im not sure if this will be posted, i posted one the other week but it never gt posted on the forum, i guess you mainly just want negative comments, which i wont give.
Rather than accuse moderators falsely, Glenn consider the possibility that some glitch happened.