"Hijacking" wider social movements with the intention of buying legitimacy (and winning over converts, if at all possible) was possibly David's sole contribution of note to the wider world of "cultdom" (although I'd probably see it more as a simple expansion of Berg's strategy of "Church Infiltration" rather than any real inventiveness on McKay's part....)

"Freeganism" of course, easily related to the scriptures concerning, "Blessed be the poor in spirit", "A mans life consists of more than the abundance he possess's"....and so on, worked to persuade David's disciples that dis-empowering themselves (and thus making themselves more vulnerable to the man holding the "purse-strings", directly or vicariously, McKay) ...was somehow "Godly".....hence it was a "band-wagon" that McKay attempted to ride far longer than say "Refugee's"....

I do though, have to wonder if Ash would have described himself as a "Freegan" before unfortunately encountering McKay....

"Displacement" is possibly how a psychologist, might see Ash's current, ongoing commitment to it all....however, we must remember that Ash was man enough to be able to turn his back on McKay (even if Ash is unable to even admit that to himself just yet!)....and I think that in good time, he will recover his own psyche sufficiently to be able to make informed decisions about "Freeganism" and the like, without constantly referencing those decisions to the wider "universe" that McKay instructed him in....(something that I know I did for a decade or more....!)

He may well choose to persevere with "Freeganism"....well, if so, good on him!

he will recover his own psyche sufficiently to be able to make informed decisions about "Freeganism" and the like, without constantly referencing those decisions to the wider "universe" that McKay instructed him in....(something that I know I did for a decade or more....!)

Me too, Malcolm, me too.

In fact I could do nothing else but use what I had been taught as reference points until I made a conscious decision (when I finally had enough insight to recognise the complete and subtle corruption of those reference points) to make a radical and fundamental overhaul of my thinking.

Take Davejc out of the picture and you have removed the single most noxious influence. Freeganism itself, with its emphasis on a low-impact lifestyle, has much to recommend it in our consumption-mad world.

You just don't need the self-interested bandwagon-jumpers like Davejc hijacking and proselytising every good idea for his own aggrandisement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 03:25AM by Stoic.

Ross's Testimony

[z14.invisionfree.com]

What a heartbreaking read. Here we have a 21 year old newlywed who was just about to begin a teaching career and he gave it all up to serve Dave McKay.

We're now 30 odd years down the line and what does he have to show for his life?

This guy has wasted over half of his life serving Dave McKay.

It's difficult to comprehend. How on earth can someone possibly recover from this?

There must be times when he thinks to himself what might have been...

Why didn't I leave when Malcolm left, or when Tony left, or when Craig left?

How can you admit to yourself that you've wasted 30 odd years of your life?

No wonder the poor guy takes medication for depression.

Malcolm, did you ever get the impression that Ross may have been a closet homosexual?

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Apollo
Malcolm, did you ever get the impression that Ross may have been a closet homosexual?

I'm just thinking along the lines of what Franky previously suggested about many of the JCs possibly being repressed homosexuals who rather than face up to their sexuality chose to serve Dave McKay.

Could Ross fall into that bracket?

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Apollo
I'm just thinking along the lines of what Franky previously suggested about many of the JCs possibly being repressed homosexuals who rather than face up to their sexuality chose to serve Dave McKay.

Could Ross fall into that bracket?

I reckon this is out of order, by anyone's standards, particularly those of tabloid journalists.

Again, your skills in hunting down link after link are mind-boggling, Apollo!

I would say "no" to your query about Ross being a "closet homosexual"....while I appreciate the many comments Franky, has contributed over the years I personally think that the "vulnerabilty" is not due to any sexual slant per se.....I believe, Apostate raised the similie of "battered wife syndrome" which I think would more approximate the circumstances in which Ross slowly became enmeshed....

(I take Blackhats' point that ridiculing any individual for a particular sexual orientation, would be churlish....however I think no-one is commenting here that homosexuality is "bad" (I, of course, having already commented somewhere elsewhere altogether, that I think it incompatible with a literal reading of the Bible)...."What is the psychological "chink in the armour" that first permits McKay entry with his gaily painted, poisoned arrows?" would seem a reasonable question to me.....one can hardly discuss McKay without taking into consideration his hypocritically sexually repressive practices..."the Virgin Army"....and the "comfort" of masturbation, that he kindly condoned for the drones in the hive.)

McKay frequently ridiculed Ross, while I was a member (say for example by naming the pet goat on the Rappville property "Heather" after Ross's wife....a deliberate ploy to ridicule any attachment that Ross may have had to her)....and Ross chose to "take it".....which just led to a further and further, loss of any respect of "weak" Ross from "all powerful" McKay...and a vicious cycle of "belittlement" that forever perpetuated itself, ensued....

You start off thinking that you need to "buckle under" in order to be truly faithful to "God" (McKay constantly reminding you of your failings to do so..."Yesterdays faith"....not being "good enough" for today)....and eventually, cowering and simpering, ever further and further, you just completely lose any sight of the "God" that you might once have imagined to have been there...and once "God" is out of the picture.....all there, is left....is McKay!

Apart from Trevor, (a years' membership?).....they are all pretty much "long termers" now.....and in general the longer you spend under McKay, the more damaged one becomes....(one only need look at the shell of a human called "Cherry")

Like you I am at a loss, about what possible avenue of recovery, Ross might take....

Denial....that's the only option, really...where else could Ross go from here....at 50, he's completely painted into a corner, psychologically.

He is someone that REALLY, quietly needs to "re-engage" with some of the more understanding former members, and someone who I believe would EVER so greatly benefit from simply calling McKay up, and shouting at him to "Piss the fuck off"!!....that would, I think, come a little way close to the beginning of a "conscious decision" to radically overhaul his thinking, that Stoic, wisely writes of.....

Good grief, Blackhat. This really is becoming tedious. Would you kindly explain your latest gripe?

This is a subject which has been discussed on this thread long before I arrived.

As Malcolm correctly points out nobody is ridiculing any individual for a particular sexual orientation. It is not an offence to be a homosexual in this day and age. I am simply trying to understand how McKay is able to deceive these people and in some cases enslave them for a large part of their lives. Clearly he uses bible manipulation to achieve this and in some cases young people struggling to accept their sexuality (especially those from a religious upbringing, which Ross was) can become easy targets.

Apollo, there is a lot of religious guilt around sexuality, even around heterosexuality, in Judeo/Christian, Muslim and most world religions.
Control of sexuality is one of the most common forms of control- and one of the easiest guilt-inducers there is--as the maelstrom of hormones in adolescence and young adulthood is beyond anyone's conscious control.

Davejc just jumped on this bandwagon and made it work for him. Young people notoriously go through a lot of uncertainty around their burgeoning sexuality--of whatever brand--before settling into some workable path for themselves.

It is the uncertainty that Davejc targets, not the particular sexual orientation, so whether or not anyone is a closet homosexual is irrelevant.
It is the uncertainty that makes them vulnerable to Davejc's pose of authority which allows him to gain control.

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
McKay frequently ridiculed Ross, while I was a member (say for example by naming the pet goat on the Rappville property "Heather" after Ross's wife....a deliberate ploy to ridicule any attachment that Ross may have had to her)....and Ross chose to "take it".....which just led to a further and further, loss of any respect of "weak" Ross from "all powerful" McKay...and a vicious cycle of "belittlement" that forever perpetuated itself, ensued....

Why does that not surprise me?

In his testimony he says: ''I'm a slow learner.''

I imagine McKay has been telling him this for the last three decades and Ross has now accepted it as fact.

The impression I get of Ross is an extremely weak man, almost a childlike figure, who has become totally reliant on the Apostle.

He's been stuck in McKay's little bubble for so long that he knows no other way. He may find that he becomes a fast learner if only he would broaden his horizens.

''Battered wife syndrome'' sounds about right. So very very sad.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2011 06:21AM by Apollo.

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Apollo
''Battered wife syndrome'' sounds about right. So very very sad.

It's called "learned helplessness" (M. Seligman).