Defiantly a sweetheart :wink: ,

Alternative treatments are a good thing, even the anti AA groups. Whenever we can keep drunks off the roads that is a good thing.

Consider the following personality traits:


[list:778ffaed69]Past History

History of not living up to potential in school or work (report cards with comments such as "not living up to potential")
History of frequent behavior problems in school (mostly for males)
History of bed wetting past age 5
Family history of ADD, learning problems, mood disorders or substance abuse problems

Short Attention Span/Distractibility

Short attention span, unless very interested in something
Easily distracted, tendency to drift away (although at times can be hyper focused)
Lacks attention to detail, due to distractibility
Trouble listening carefully to directions
Frequently misplaces things
Skips around while reading, or goes to the end first, trouble staying on track
Difficulty learning new games, because it is hard to stay on track during directions
Easily distracted during sex, causing frequent breaks or turn-offs during lovemaking
Poor listening skills
Tendency to be easily bored (tunes out)

Restlessness

Restlessness, constant motion, legs moving, fidgetiness
Has to be moving in order to think
Trouble sitting still, such as trouble sitting in one place for too long, sitting at a desk job for long periods, sitting through a movie
An internal sense of anxiety or nervousness

Impulsivity

Impulsive, in words and/or actions (spending)
Say just what comes to mind without considering its impact (tactless)
Trouble going through established channels, trouble following proper procedure, an attitude of "read the directions when all else fails"
Impatient, low frustration tolerance
A prisoner of the moment
Frequent traffic violations
Frequent, impulsive job changes
Tendency to embarrass others
Lying or stealing on impulse

Poor Organization

Poor organization and planning, trouble maintaining an organized work/living area
Chronically late or chronically in a hurry
Often have piles of stuff
Easily overwhelmed by tasks of daily living
Poor financial management (late bills, check book a mess, spending unnecessary money on late fees
Very successful, but often only if they are surrounded with people who organize them.

Problems Getting Started and Following Through

Chronic procrastination or trouble getting started
Starting projects but not finishing them, poor follow through
Enthusiastic beginnings but poor endings
Spends excessive time at work because of inefficiencies
Inconsistent work performance

Negative Internal Feelings

Chronic sense of underachievement, feeling you should be much further along in your life than you are
Chronic problems with self-esteem
Sense of impending doom
Mood swings
Negativity
Frequent feeling of demoralization or that things won't work out for you

Relational Difficulties

Trouble sustaining friendships or intimate relationships, promiscuity
Trouble with intimacy
Tendency to be immature
Self-centered; immature interests
Failure to see others' needs or activities as important
Lack of talking in a relationship
Verbally abusive to others
Proneness to hysterical outburst
Avoids group activities
Trouble with authority

Short Fuse

Quick responses to slights that are real or imagined
Rage outbursts, short fuse

Frequent Search For High Stimulation

Frequent search for high stimulation (bungee jumping, gambling, race track, high stress jobs, ER doctors, doing many things at once, etc.)
Tendency to seek conflict, be argumentative or to start disagreements for the fun of it

Tendency To Get Stuck (thoughts or behaviors)

Tendency to worry needlessly and endlessly


Switches Things Around

Switches around numbers, letters or words
Turn words around in conversations

Writing/Fine Motor Coordination Difficulties

Poor writing skills (hard to get information from brain to pen)
Poor handwriting, often prints
Coordination difficulties

The Harder I Try The Worse It Gets

Performance becomes worse under pressure.
Test anxiety, or during tests your mind tends to go blank
The harder you try, the worse it gets
Work or schoolwork deteriorates under pressure
Tendency to turn off or become stuck when asked questions in social situations
Falls asleep or becomes tired while reading

Sleep/Wake Difficulties

Difficulties falling asleep, may be due to too many thoughts at night
Difficulty coming awake (may need coffee or other stimulant or activity before feeling fully awake)

Low Energy

Periods of low energy, especially early in the morning and in the afternoon
Frequently feeling tired

Sensitive To Noise Or Touch

Startles easily
Sensitive to touch, clothes, noise and light[/list:u:778ffaed69]

Well, those characteristics certainly cover nearly the full range of human emotions;
Your point being?

And how does that list relate to the subject of AA, alternatives, and the legality of court-ordered attendence at AA?

You're going way off topic here.

Quote
barabara
Well, those characteristics certainly cover nearly the full range of human emotions;
Your point being?
And how does that list relate to the subject of AA, alternatives, and the legality of court-ordered attendence at AA?
You're going way off topic here.

Well, there's a methode to my madness. That is a list from a test on ADD not alcoholism.

[www.oneaddplace.com]

I deliberatly left off 2 things from the list which would have been a give away:

[b:7f54cdfe5f] *History of ADD symptoms in childhood, such as distractibility, short attention span, impulsivity or restlessness. ADD doesn't start at age 30. [/b:7f54cdfe5f]

[b:7f54cdfe5f]*Tendency toward addictions (food, alcohol, drugs, work) [/b:7f54cdfe5f]
My point is that many alcoholics have ADD but are undiagnosed. In AA they would lump it all with just being a drunk or the alcoholic personality.

It has been a great help to me to understand that I have HADD, that my brain works a little differently then someone without it.

But wouldn't ya know their are people that don't believe that ADD exists either just as their are people that don't think alcoholism is a disorder.....or clinical depression etc.

The 12 steps have also helped me with my HADD.

I take the position as did early AA's that there is allot that we don't know, we should all keep an open mind.


Colter

colter:

Quote

My point is that many alcoholics have ADD but are undiagnosed.[b:966d19a83e] In AA they would lump it all with just being a drunk or the alcoholic personality.[/b:966d19a83e]

Yes!! That's what I've been trying to point out all along.

For some members ofAA, therapists did not even bother to consider the medical possibilities for their complaints, and sent them back to AA.

Quote
barabara
colter:

Quote

My point is that many alcoholics have ADD but are undiagnosed.[b:e1bfa3fd17] In AA they would lump it all with just being a drunk or the alcoholic personality.[/b:e1bfa3fd17]

Yes!! That's what I've been trying to point out all along.

Those I know suffered grave emotional distress in AA, often due to trying to apply the steps to problems like clinical depression, Manic-depression, [b:e1bfa3fd17]hyperthyroidism[/b:e1bfa3fd17] (the steps definitely [b:e1bfa3fd17]DO NOT WORK[/b:e1bfa3fd17] for hyperthyroidism), and other medical conditions.

Unfortunately, because they were active in AA, therapists did not even bother to consider the medical possibilities for their complaints, and sent them back to AA.
[b:e1bfa3fd17]This almost killed my relative. [/b:e1bfa3fd17]
Everyone told her she was just a rebellious alkie, or hadn't worked her steps properly.
Her therapist sent her to a different AA group.
Wisely, she quit AA, [b:e1bfa3fd17]saw a doctor[/b:e1bfa3fd17], and had her medical needs taken care of.
She is scared to death of AA. And, she never drank again, either.

We agree with each other on this point. AA should stick with alcohol and be supportive as a fellowship for members that have issues that we have no answer for. AA members have no right to comment on the use of medication in meetings.

I have heard people say that they found help in the steps for metal illness that doctors were ineffective in treating.

My own GP is forever trying to give me addictive drugs for thing like a chest cold. I have to remind him that I have and addiction problem. It wasn't until one of his doctor friends set him straight that he would listen to me. He just didn't see why an alcoholic would have any problems with Codien or Oxyconten.



Colter

colter:

Quote

We agree with each other on this point. AA should stick with alcohol and be supportive as a fellowship for members that have issues that we have no answer for. AA members have no right to comment on the use of medication in meetings.

I have heard people say that they found help in the steps for metal illness that doctors were ineffective in treating.

Yes, I agree.

But what I find most disturbing is the way the [b:4026d68b34]medical profession[/b:4026d68b34] treats some clients because of their AA membership.

I don't know how common mis-diagnosis is, but I'm sure it happens.
In the case of one therapist, it was probably due to inadequate training[ in working with substance abusers, which is deplorable. The 12 step method was the only therapy for alkies that the therapist knew about.

Reserving AA for alcoholics would certainly be a step in the right direction, but have a look at the kind of convictions involved in court referals: [www.orange-papers.org]

Quote
ughaibu
Reserving AA for alcoholics would certainly be a step in the right direction, but have a look at the kind of convictions involved in court referals: [www.orange-papers.org]

I think that AA's in general would concur with that although "sour oranges" didn't mention if these sentences were the result of plea bargains between the prosecutor and defense attorneys. I'm assuming that the defendants in these cases maintained that they were intoxicated at the time of the offences and are trying to avoid jail time.

Colter

Colter: Intoxication and addiction are two quite different things.

colter:

Quote

I'm assuming that the defendants in these cases maintained that they were intoxicated at the time of the offences and are trying to avoid jail time.

Quite possibly, but let me put this out there for consideration:

If the only requirement for membership in AA is a "[b:845e431322]desire to quit drinking[/b:845e431322]", doesn't allowing people who [b:845e431322]do not have the desire [/b:845e431322]to use the program in this way weaken it for those who want to achieve sobriety?

And doesn't [b:845e431322]promoting AA through the courts [/b:845e431322]leave AA open to these types of mis-use of the program?

Wouldn't it be better for "[b:845e431322]the alcoholic who still suffers[/b:845e431322]" if AA [b:845e431322]did not actively encourage court-ordered attendance[/b:845e431322]? I never understood why AA would actually encourage this practice, but I have proven to myself (and others on this forum) that they [b:845e431322]do[/b:845e431322], by posting the GSO report about this.
(It's on the thread:
[board.culteducation.com] )

If secular alternatives were more widely available, the courts would have more places to dump recalcitrant offenders, and AA might be a better place for those seeking recovery from alcoholism, rather than as a way to avoid incarceration.

My own interest in these issues has more to do with how the therapeutic community views AA and recovery, however.