The AA literature is indeed hostile to the freethinker, as are most AA groups, the ones I have gone to or heard about.Quote
Alcoholics Anonymous is an organization which is decidedly hostile towards atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers of all sorts.
Some relevant quotes from the AA literature:Quote
If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic,... I feel sorry for you.
To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible,... To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.
...after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life - or else.But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics.
Let's look first at the case of the one who says he won't believe --...He is in a state of mind which can be described only as savage.
We atheists ... believed... that our human intelligence is the last word ... Rather vain of us, wasn't it?
I can definitely see these meetings as support groups, not cults.Quote
A.A.´s BIG TENT COVERS A LOT OF GROUND
Editor´s note: this article first appeared in High and Dry, the newsletter of Seattle AA, in October 2004.
Two of the meetings use the euphemism, "alternative format," to describe themselves, though the Tuesday 5:30 p.m. meeting at the Capitol Hill Alano Club also spells it out: "Atheist/Agnostic (Alternate Format)."
At the Matt Talbot Center on Fridays at 6:30, the meeting is "The Edge-Alternative Format."
Freethinkers at the Leif Erickson Hall in Ballard Thursday at 6:15 uses no other description, leaving it to the name to make the point.
These meetings are quite unstructured[b:d7483960f5]-no reading from "How It Works," no Serenity Prayer at the end.[/b:d7483960f5]
Dick M., who was interviewed for this article, opens Freethinkers with a "Statement of Intent" which says in part: "[b:d7483960f5]This meeting is intended to provide a comfortable forum for those recovering from Addiction to alcohol and/or other drugs regardless of any spiritual or philosophical beliefs.[/b:d7483960f5]" It then cites the Third Tradition: "The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking."
[b:d7483960f5]Freethinkers, where he serves as "secretary and coffee maker," limits its discussion to the First Step[/b:d7483960f5], with emphasis on the second half: "…our lives had become unmanageable." "We´re supposed to be agnostic and atheist," Dick said, "but anybody that feels they need help is welcome."
Freethinkers makes no distinction between types of addiction. Drug addicts are as welcome as booze addicts.
Sharon goes to a variety of A.A. meetings. "I usually keep a low profile, but I speak up when there´s too much focus on Christian dogma. I try to remind people that [b:d7483960f5]this is a program of inclusion, not exclusion[/b:d7483960f5]. I prefer meetings like ours where you don´t have to think about how you´re going to phrase your comments. Unfortunately, though, I´ve had to be careful what I say in some A.A.A.A. (Alcoholics Anonymous for Atheists and Agnostics) too.
"That distresses me. What works for you is your business. Don´t force your beliefs on others. Share them. You don´t have to force feed it to them."
Posting a link to the website would be nice.
That way we could verify whether or not you used an actual quote, and see for ourselves what they have to say.
Look it up. You've got the web?
The burden is on someone making an argument to provide sources for it. It's called scholarship.
Primitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern, civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion. [b:e9fd794d8b]When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to gain control of it. By such procedure, even a revealed religion becomes man-made and man-dominated. [/b:e9fd794d8b]
Primitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern, civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion. [b:5ef1df7515]When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to gain control of it. By such procedure, even a revealed religion becomes man-made and man-dominated. [/b:5ef1df7515]
Colter, would AA allow a thinking person like barabara her personal freedom to consider "the greater wisdom in the universe" as you posit it, "a greater PHILOSOPHICAL wisdom" rather than a "greater RELIGIOUS wisdom..."?
That there is something other than ourselves that we can utilise to our benefit, need not be a religious belief but a philosophical one?
In AA an un surrendered free thinker stands out like a sore thumb.
So that seems to be the primary obstacle that your up against on the issue of AA and YOU ARE RIGHT[/color:b4bc5f1fce]!
We say it at all the meetings, "we wish we could find an easier softer way but we could not".
And[b:b4bc5f1fce] that[/b:b4bc5f1fce] statement is totally untrue.Quote
So even atheist are respected, loved, tolerated, included and allowed to apply the program as best they can.
So it was true for me that alcohol became the great persuader.
However, this board is about helping those who have been deceived by another person or organisation through the use of unethical psychological means to believe in "the rock", where such belief is:
1. [b:b4bc5f1fce]Against what the person would have believed prior to the precipitating coercive relationship[/b:b4bc5f1fce];
2.[b:b4bc5f1fce] Is causing either physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual, financial and relationships harm[/b:b4bc5f1fce].
Therefore, if anyone wants to evangelise their brand of religion, it is best to do it on level ground where the principles of the religion can be tested against reason without coercion to people who have not be psychologically abused. This wesite is not the appropriate environment for evangelisation.
that statement is total horse crap.
AA is a cult, just like every other cult I've ever encountered.
AA used deceptive means to recruit myself and my family members, then proceeded to use thought control techniques to implant a new reality and force a different concept of God on us.
AA threatened us with death if we did not conform to their way of thinking, and the other devotees shunned us when we left the cult.
And your claims of death threats and deception are very hard to believe.