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barabara
I have been accused of misrepresenting AA by relating my experiences, by[b:bb36f4d78a] colter[/b:bb36f4d78a], and I have been told, by [b:bb36f4d78a]you[/b:bb36f4d78a], that AA is not harmful.

As I, and others here, have gone into a great deal of detail about exactly how we feel we and our loved ones were harmed, (in many cases the complaints center around being coerced, often deceptively, into adopting an alien spiritual belief system), to ignore our complaints, say they could not have happened, or accuse us of misrepresenting AA, attempting to harm AA, and actually harming AA by saying what happened to us there [b:bb36f4d78a]is[/b:bb36f4d78a] invalidating.

This is what has been done to us on this forum.

If we have gotten a chip on our shoulders because we have been invalidated, please excuse us. It seems to me that the pro-AAs have gotten a little testy here, too.

I know I was a lot more willing to see the "good" side of AA before I was accused of misrepresentation, having a grudge, and being part of the "secular revolt", and I don't think I ever called AA a cult until I was pushed past the point of annoyance by the insults of others here.

IMO, and experience, some thought reform techniques are used sometimes, not others. AA does not fit the cult mold, but nevertheless the indoctrination was damaging to my family and others.

There was also no one we could turn to to resolve the issues; even outside therapists were unwilling to adress the possibility that we were telling the truth about our confusion and hurt from what we experienced in AA.

I will never change my mind and believe that what happened did not happen, or that the people I know experienced what they experienced, and it is unlikely that I will ever be cowed into silence.

I am not immune to criticism and being made light of, so if I react by saying AA is a cult, you of all people should understand that.

I am accustomed to having people disagree with me; perhaps you should direct your statements more broadly, as it seems to me that I have not been the only one getting my feathers ruffled here; colter doesn't seem to enjoy being disagreed with any more than I do, for instance.
And upside down has been telling us to shut up in a variety of ways ever since he joined the thread.

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Everyone has their own opinion and view etc.

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Different people have different experiences of AA.
Certain personality types do well in 12 step programs, others do not always fare as well.
In particular, those who are self-deprecating, designated "scapegoats" in their family of origin, and people who are naive prior to attending meetings are at the highest risk for predation and psychological harm.

AA and the other 12 step programs are neither all-good or all-bad. They do help some people, just not everyone, regardless of how well they "work the steps".

Viewing all addicts and alcoholics as basically similar can only serve to restrict treatment.
Those who do not fit the assumed standard might not benefit from treatment devised for these types.
Allowing for differences in personality type and type and level of psychological disfunction would require that various forms of treatment be available.
A "one size fits all" approach to treating alcoholism and addiction is undoubtedly not the most effective way of dealing with the problem.

Not all AA members are determined to make of AA a cult. There are those who view it as a social support system rather than the revelation of God's word. These types do not feel the need to defend the alleged sacred perfection of the program at the expense of the truth.

We can focus on the term "cult", and thereby discredit allegations of harm suffered in AA, or we can focus on the allegations of abuse.

Personally, I don't care whether or not anyone believes AA is a "cult".

I am more interested in discussing the damage some people claim to have suffered in AA, ( some of us believe we and our loved ones suffered damage in AA).

I believe we are attempting to understand and possibly remedy that damage.

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I've wanted you to go away and think very carefully about what you think about AA before coming here and spraying "frustrated" rhetoric at the expense of the AA organisation.

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It seems to me that the pro-AAs have gotten a little testy here, too.

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barabara
upside down:

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I've wanted you to go away and think very carefully about what you think about AA before coming here and spraying "frustrated" rhetoric at the expense of the AA organisation.

And I have wanted you to go away and find another place to vent your ire, as you are probably intimidating those who, like me, wanted to discuss the issue of AA and the courts, which is what the person who started the thread intended.

You are once again assuming that I am frustrated with AA.
Rest assured that it is [b:321a5bda99]YOU[/b:321a5bda99] I have found most annoying, as you claim to be most annoyed with me.

As you are not the moderator of this forum, I am not going to allow you to drive me off it.

If AA is the powerful organization others feel it is, I'm sure that the opinion of one person can do little to harm it, especially with all of the defenders here to prevent me from bringing it to its knees.

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I have never tried to drive barabara from the messageboard.


Now that we've all agreed...let's get back to Landmark and Scientology and real destructive cults.

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[b:413377f911] There are women only meetings for the irresistibly beautiful to go to. [/b:413377f911]

You missed my since of humor in may last post.

Barbara what exactly is the source of your resentment for AA?
With that bias or vendetta towards the program are you a competent to dissuade problem drinkers from seeking help there?


[b:413377f911]There are misrepresentation in Barbs post.
The part in blue is blatantly false![/b:413377f911]

None of my comments in my last post to you were in any way intended to be offensive. Your being overly sensitive.

Birds of a feather do flock together.

AA, meet the secular humanist revolt!

Thanks for reminding me (again) of how screwed up we are from up there on your high horse.

We honestly don't get many non alcoholic people at the AA meeting who are looking for entertainment.

Oh Barbara, come on now. Perhaps my sarcastic sense of humor doesn't translate well in writing. I have not attempted to insult you or add any homonym

....ahhhhhhh, links to the "American Aithiest" web site. We're getting warmer Barbara.


[b:413377f911]Almost without fail those who are critical of AA's twelve steps are bitter people who never actually tried them so rather they concoct in their mind a thousand and one reasons why they don't need to do them.[/b:413377f911]