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barabara
colter:

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he Washintonians evolved into a political/temperance movement and collapsed, the Oxford Group was the springboard for AA and is now known as "Moral Rerearament"

[religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu]

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1. I. Group Profile
2.
1. Name:[b:8f223301c3] Moral Re-Armament[/b:8f223301c3]
2.
3. Founder: Frank Nathan Daniel Buchman 1
[b:8f223301c3]The Oxford Group's aims are a new social order under the dictatorship[/color:8f223301c3] of the spirit of God[/b:8f223301c3], making for better human relationships, for unselfish-cooperation, cleaner business and politics, and elimination of political, industrial, and racial antagonisms;27 and that all men in their ordinary professions and in their home should learn to live a life of perfect purity, honesty, and love and that many should join the ministry of the Church.
1. "Buchman's program consisted of personal evangelism with emphasis upon:
2.
1. Both public and private confession of sin, with an emphasis upon sexual sin
2. Reception of divine guidance during quiet time
3. Complete surrender to this guidance
4. The living of a guided life in which every aspect of one's actions, down to the choice of dinner entree, was controlled by God
5. Practice of the Buchmanite four absolutes - purity, honesty, love, and unselfishness
6. Making restitution to those one has harmed
7. Carrying the message to those still defeated"28

IV. Issues and Controversies

Another incident involved Buchman being banned from Princeton University in 1924,32 because[b:8f223301c3] the young Buchmanites were persistently crude in invasions of physical and spiritual privacy, had high-pressured attempts at life-changing, an obsessive and often impertinent harping on sin, especially sexual sin[/color:8f223301c3][/b:8f223301c3], and experiments in Guidance which have sometimes led students to neglect work and cut exams. His obsession with sexual sin is apparent here especially when he told the president of Princeton that 85% of the undergraduates were either sexually perverted or self-abusive.

This problem surfaced once again in the 1950's and 1960's when a book written by Peter Howard, successor to Buchman, said "264 homosexuals were reported to have been purged from the American State Department. Many of them moved to New York and took jobs in the United Nations". Another occasion is when MRA in a 1963 advertisement in the New York Times [b:8f223301c3]attacked sexual deviants in high places who protect potential spies.[/b:8f223301c3] With its obsession, MRA brought more criticism to itself than what it needed.

[b:8f223301c3]One of the biggest issues with MRA was the fabled "Thank heaven for Hitler" remark by Buchman.33 In this interview published in August 26, 1936, Buchman said "I thank heaven for a man like Adolf Hitler[/color:8f223301c3], who built a front line of defense against the anti-Christ of Communism[/b:8f223301c3]...Of course I don't condone everything the Nazis do." [b:8f223301c3]This statement brought criticism to Buchman as a Nazi lover and his statement of Himmler being a great lad got him the label of a pro-Nazi.[/b:8f223301c3] This was the beginning of fall of MRA, due to a slip with the media and MRA inability to participate in an open debate.

This was the "springboard for AA"?
(You said it, "colter", not me.)
[b:8f223301c3]A pro-Hitler, sexually-obcessed movement for a "new social order"[/b:8f223301c3]?

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This is a new low in attempted guilt by association.

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rrmoderator
Colter:

There is a very specific definition for a destructive "cult."

See [www.culteducation.com]

I don't know of any cult expert that has said, "AA is a cult."

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We can see how some of these elements can be misused by persons with a grudge for helpful groups.

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Bad things can happen when alcoholics communicate too directly with each other, as any bartender knows. Tempers are lost, fists are raised, knives and guns come out.

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barabara
colter:

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We can see how some of these elements can be misused by persons with a grudge for helpful groups.

So, it's back to the old "they have a grudge" defense.

Perhaps all of this unpleasantness is just a case of "the alcoholic personality" at play:
[www.aa-uk.org.uk]

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Bad things can happen when alcoholics communicate too directly with each other, as any bartender knows. Tempers are lost, fists are raised, knives and guns come out.

For whatever motives, the moderators have allowed us to discuss these issues.
I don't see any reason for the unpleasantness.

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Good link Barb, nothing in it about Hitler and AA.

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The real history of Alcoholics Anonymous and its predecessor organization, Frank Buchman's Oxford Group cult, is a fascinating epic historical melodrama that has everything a good historical novel could wish for:

• sex,
• violence,
• goose-stepping Nazi soldiers and their beautiful blond women,
• deceitful traitors and brave patriots and cowardly draft-dodgers and two-faced flag-waving chicken-hawks,
• insane rabid ultra-right-wing multi-millionaires who preferred Adolf Hitler over President Franklin D. Roosevelt,
• racism,
• bigotry,
• homophobia, homosexuals and lesbians,
• crazy raving lunatics who claimed that God sent them to save the world,
• and even all of the down-and-out drunkards under the bridge.

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barabara

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It's about predatorial people in society..

It isn't about having a discussion;
It's about causing disruption to one,
maybe because you don't like what's being said.
It's about trying to kill a thread.
It's about how much you enjoy baiting others here.
Kind of like the way you baited [b:7995ac160c]Richard Green[/b:7995ac160c] on another thread.
[b:7995ac160c]It's about having fun being a troll.[/b:7995ac160c]