Hi Concerned,
"is it ever worth confronting relatives about this "religion" with an open and honest debate? is it just a pipe-dream to ever expect anything open and honest from them? "

Yes, it's a pipe dream. Especially if you expect a rational explanation for any of JH's actions, or their loyalty to him despite those actions. Some might be willing to talk "beliefs", but noone will be open or honest about ongoing projects, plans, etc.

As far as beliefs. Thyey have changed drastically over time. They are vegetarian, based on a book called Gospel of Nazirines. It's an actual book that was handed out to every member, so I assume it can be bought. There is also the 32 paths, a lot of emphasis on meditaion, among others. And people are also preparing for the future- they believe there is going to be widespread disaster and persecution so they are preparing.

Living on LI- most people moved out during the 80's and 90's. Cities are believed to be the worst places to live, especially when "s--t hits the fan". Being on LI would be essentially trapped- no way off, etc. Also, something disasterous is supposedly going to happen there.

As far as timeline- I don't know enough early history of the group to be of help. JH died in Maine, and is buried in Maine. He returned from hiding in 96- at leasst that's when the first big get-together was. Some things have changed in the structuring of the group since he returned from hiding. They don't recruit anymore. Only birth and marriage. They are seperated into three "families" now too.

Quote
brainwashed
Who else on the forum are, or would you be comparing notes with Concerned?

OK Brainwashed let me start with this: I may have inappropriately used that term. My intention is to get all members of this forum on the same page (and by that I mean all past members, current members, and outsiders like me). When I say compare notes I was referring to something that seems to be done quietly by some of my non-hickmanite family members with others who have family members within the group.

That said, please stop with the inference that I may be doing something underhanded. I realize this forum poses a risk for some of those who remain within the group, however nothing that I said has been intrusive, personal, or anything but straight forward and open. I don't wish to get anyone in trouble, all I am looking for is some FACTS. I say that because they seem to be few and far between. All my family is ever able to go on is assumptions, guesses, etc. That seems to be a common theme for those involved in this group. They give no detail, no straight-forward answers, and no FACTS. Everything is vague and murky.

As for those whom I know follow this thread yet do not reply, please believe me. There are a few of us out there, and I was one of them for quite a bit until I decided to post the other day. For them, and the rest of us outsiders, I ask if it's possible to nail down some kind of time-line, belief system, or anything else concrete that could help us understand what is going on with our very own families. I know it sounds strange, but a lot of people on here are probably MORE in touch with what is going on with the members of my family that I am.

So again, sorry for the phrase, but I meant no harm with it.

daddylonglegs thank you for the insight.

would it be OK for me to pm you a few questions?

HI again daddy

Ok
YOU wanted to know what I was implying in my previous posts, I'll guess every intelligent person on the boards can figure out my answer. For those that couldn't I'll explain. I implied and am now saying that Ithink you are a leader in this cult. I noticed that your previous posts didnt' give an answer to any direct questions...not even the board monitor's direct question.
Cult leaders by definition do not invite critical questions.
I was pointing that out.
I notice that now you have answered a question.
Bravo. Would you be willing to answer a critical question?
Would you be willing to answer some of my previous posts which were of a critical nature and addressed to a possible leader...being you?

Through all the sarcasm and attempts at humor, it was hard to tell there was a valid question. Thanks for finally asking point blank. Now I will answer point blank- no, I am not a leader in this cult.
Anything else?

Concerned,
I really found your questions to be very thought provoking. While I am unable to answer your questioins I am thankful for them because it is causing me to wonder. Did you ever notice that ''wonder'' is part of ''wonderful''. I think it is ''wonderful'' to wonder.
Anyhow I'm going to continue to lend thought to your very good questions. Even though I will probably never be able to answer you, I know that just pondering the questions will help me grow spiritually and intellectually.
Thank you again for your very thought provoking questions.

OMG
I JUST HAD A BRAIN STORM
NO JOKE
A REAL LIVE BRAIN STORM
MAYBE SINCE LOVED ONES IN THE CULT HAVE DIFFICULTY ANSWERING QUESTIONS...MAYBE ONE APPROACH WOULD BE TO INVITE THEM TO ASK QUESTIONS.
DOES THAT SOUND SILLY

Just to be clear.
I define a critical question as ''why did you wear that when it clearly doesn't match'' or ''who said you could do that'' or ''who gave you that authority''

I define a NON critical question as ''am I silly'' ''what was it like when god spoke to you'' ''may I speak to you''

oh brainwashed,
I have a question about your two posts.
Did you add them so that the board would total 10 posts and then, the next post from daddy would start or be at the top of the next message board?

Brainwashed,
Would you consider the previous question to be ''critical'' and, if so...does it anger you?