Mostly right on. I don't think anyone is denying any of these points.

"Would you like me to give it up...the ''attempt'' at humor? Should I stop?"

They would be fine if they were actually humorous. But no, no- keep going. I am enjoying the insight you are providing about yourself.
(oh, shoot- that sounded sarcastic. I hope you picked up on the humor)

Anyway, believe me, don't believe me, whatever. It doesn't make much of a difference to me. All I see is that if anyone says something you don't like, or answers a question in a way that doesn't appeal, then that person MUST be the enemy. Nevermind that 30+ years have passed and some of our experiences are different than yours. The fact that my viewpoint differs from yours makes it no less valid. You have not been harrassed with serial rude posts for your opinions, and maybe others on here would appreciate the same respect. We are all adults, I assume. Maybe it's too much to expect. Whatever.

===================================================
LET'S REVIEW

EXAMPLES OF A CRITICAL QUESTION:
why did you choose that mask...it doesn't match the rest of the outfit?
who made you boss?
are you lying?

Examples of a NON critical question
should I give up my attempt at...whatever?

To rrmoderator

Here is some insight to your statements.

1. Some say that the group has changed and evolved over the years and therefore the issues and focus of concern has also changed. Specifically, though extreme abuses (e.g. sexual abuse) may have existed years ago, it does not exist today, largely becuase the founder/leader is dead. Currently, the more salient issues of concern are psychological and emotional abuse.

Yes, to my knowledge little physical abuse after JH went into hiding was mentioned. Some accounts have been varified and are true, though JH was very manipulative and consent could be argued in many of these accounts. I have heard a few rumors, and such in the last 14 years or so and one member who was on the fringe was convicted of a sex offense few years ago (not committed inside the community)

The psychological damage is what is most powerful. Because it is not 20-30 somethings joining a new group - like it was 30 years ago. There is a whole generation of children indoctrinated with these "beliefs" which has created various cultures within it. Turned many into blind followers that carry out the demands of the leadership with little to no resistance, most of which were favored early on by JH, for whatever reason financial, favoritism, or just at random. This group in my belief has been 'bought' in many ways. Some of these people's careers solely depend upon the 'community' Some have actually been paid to return to the 'fold' according to some of my sources. This then caused a less radical set within the community that is judged and criticized by the previous set. This is sometimes blatant and sometimes subtle, sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference. Because of the pressures put upon the youth, which are bombarded on all ends some do not even know they are being manipulated. Peers, parents, elders within the 'community' are constantly barraging the youth on all ends that the outside world should be shunned and that they are special, that they will usher in the Messiah and rule along side him, that the world is coming to an end, and that they should be prepared to be hunted down by everyone that is not within the group. To truly understand this from an outsiders perspective like yours is impossible. Th damage that this can cause a young person growing up in an environment like this isnt even something I can understand. I feel its effects, but I do not understand it enough to explain to you. Though I do know this: 30 years ago the damage (suffered by most, most) is superficial when compared to the harm it has caused some of the 'comminity's' second generation. The teachings became more and more bizarre, the laws ever changing, the final set of teachings "The 32 Paths" were taught by JH as he was dying and losing his faculties. On one occasion I recall sitting listening to these lessons and realizing they were being taught by someone who was losing it, he could not keep his train of thought, he would fall asleep mid sentence, and he would ramble on making little to no sense. These teachings are the last set of teachings from JH and are to this day considered the 'true' path(s) to righteousness within the family. So in short (or not so short) today these teachings are what the second and third generations will grow up learning. A very scary thought.

2. Reportedly the founder of the group sexually abused minor children, which has never been explicitly acknowledged by the current leadership. Also, people in power now may have enabled and/or covered up for the former leader. And that this currently goes to the core credibility of the group and the ethics of its present leadership.

You are focusing too much on the sexual abuse in my opinion. All of these accounts are 30 years old. Credibility is not of much concern when talking about a cult is it? Lies and thought manipulation are a daily occurance and a much more common abusive tool than any sexual abuse (no sexual abuse goes on at all to my knowledge and I am almost certain none occurs) When JH returned from his hiding he was much smarter about outsiders perception of the groups activity. He already learned that lesson the hard way. It is my belief that JH was a homosexual, not a pedophile. It is my belief that homosexuality is a hidden activity within the family. It is my belief that some of the most revered members of the group are in fact homosexual, while open homosexuality is strictly forbidden. JH went into his 'hiding' along with a much younger man, Gary. You can make your own assumptions on this one.

3. Based upon the answers to previous points raised regarding "warning signs" and the telltale signs of cult-like behavior, this group seems to have many parallels. The group apparently remains essentially totalitarian in structure and the leaders have little if any meaningful accountability. There also appears to be no genuine financial transparency.

This is true. And in my mind there is no doubt that this group is a cult by all definitions. The leaders answer to no one. Though Gary has never stated he is the leader it is clear that he is the guiding force within the community. I will not get into the specific internal governing bodies, but at some point along the way they all report directly or indirectly to Gary. The financial transparency is partly visible. Through several orginazations the money is funneled. I will not mention these companies. it is not known to me how much tithe the high priests receive or how much Gary receives though I am fairly certain Gary is close to if not a millionaire. As previously mentioned many of the higher ups depend on the community for their jobs. All of Gary's monies originated from the group from tithe. When JH and he were in hiding they were funded strictly from tithe, and possibly another source with extremely strong ties to the group.

I would try and move past the sexual abuse aspect as it holds almost no impact on the activity of the group today. The group today has morphed into a completely new creature. More subtle control is used, the specific use of the tithe is murky at best and is a strong bone of contention in the group. A few years back JH told the members that if they did not pay the tithe they were to be put on the 'left' which is the equivalence of being damned to hell. To be listed on the left is just a small example of the psychological manipulation that occurs everyday. As JH's death grew closer and closer he told his inner circle "this is the year you will find out who people really are" which was quickly released to spread throughout the group as one of his last efforts to control the members. He was fighting for their minds to the very end.

I keep reading people stating that sexual child abuse does not exist in the group today, but what I don't understand how one can be so sure of this.

If you read the Newsday article from 1982 it states that 90% of the groups members back then were unaware of such activities. I was there as a chld/teenager back then and had no clue that anything of that sort was taking place. Just because it not happening to someone personally does not mean its not happening at all. I don't have the statistics, but isn't it the general knownledge that most child abusers were abused as a child themselves and carry on the abuse to the next generation and so on? Isn't it likely that a member of the group that was abused and stayed with the group after the fallout would have the tendency to carry on the abuse? Just as homosexuality is possibly a hidden activity within the group, why wouldn't/couldn't sexual child abuse be hidden as well. I just can't see one dismissing the possibility all together and being so definitive that its not taking place today, but other things possibly are. Maybe people are just trying to convince themselves that such activities could not be happening because they don't want to believe that people they know or a group they belong to would be involved in something like that.

I'm not saying it is or isn't happening, and realize current members are focusing on or dealing with other controlling issues within the group or what the group has been teaching them, but do think they should not dismiss factually that sexual abuse is not taking place.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2009 12:21AM by Anonymous2009.

The only reason for suspecting it would be on the grounds that it has happened in the past, but those people are gone, hickman is dead and Gary is married with a kid. I'm not ruling it out, just saying I honestly can't imagine that they are actually conspiring to molest children of their life-long friends. Could it still be going on with some rogue individuals? maybe... but I don't see why it would. It's not like sexually abusing a child is an innate urge within everyone that we all just have to "deal with", or something that a person could instill in another to pass on.

I think is goes beyond as just something that happened in the past and that those people are all gone and hickman is dead, as when it initially happened hickman said, according to the Newsday article, 'The passing of the seed was prescribed in an "incantaton in a commentary on the Zohar," the chief book of kabbalah. Abbas had always performed the ceremony."' , He wasn't just acting on his own desires, but was making it part of his teachings, thus making it sound that it was something that was done with G*d's approval. Doesn't the group still follow his teachings today? Didn' t Brainwashed express a concern on today's group members following hickman's bizarre teachings?

Points of agreement between the old schooler and new schoolers

1- Jack Hickman founded the cult

2-Jack Hickman could read people

3-Jack Hickman could manipulate people

4-Jack Hickman filled his pockets with the money of his followers

5-Jack Hickman had a sexual appetite for young adolescent boys

6-Jack Hickman was reported to have used his manipulative and charismatic personality to co erce consnsual sex
from young boys

7-Jack's sexual exploits were made public information

8- It is reported that a group of Jack's old parishoners accepted the sexual exploits of Jack

9-It is reported the group of Jack's old parishoners helped him rebuild his church ...out of state...

10- Among his close inner circle and friends was a chiropractor who lost his license in NY to practice because of sex
offenses against clients.

11- This chiropractor left NY and started over with the group in Colorods(as did Jack), only to be arrested for sex offenses against a minor.

12- Brainwashed claims the chiropractor was not arrested for assaulting a community member....why not??????
Why was he with them for over a decade???

13- Jack's inner circle of women decades ago included some whom he ''read'' as women who had very weak sexual
boundaries...possibly because they themselves had been abused as children.

14-Jack had an appetite for young men and an ability to woo women with poor sexual boundaries and a weak ability/desire to protect their children from sexually predatory behaviour.

15-If a man wanted to raise a ''harem'' of young men who he could molest....the best way to do it would be to convince a group of women with poor sexual boundaries that he was the christ and that his sperm carried ....who knows....whatever it was he spewed out.....

16-In addition to finding women who were amenable to being raped Jack had ''insight'' into men who were predators.

17-By allowing predatory behaviour to go on with his ''flock'' he was able to ''winnow out'' those individuals who would not tolerate the overstepping of sexual boundaries.

18- Those individuals who would not tolerate the over stepping of sexual boundaries were ''shaken out'' of the fold.

19- Jack's ''first born'' now rules the flock

20-The name implies that by ''catching seed'' he was born

21- Since the rest of the scripture passage is ''first born of MANY BRETHREN'' it is fair to question....are their brethren and how did they get born?

Anonymous 2009 wrote:

Maybe people are just trying to convince themselves that such activities could not be happening because they don't want to believe that people they know or a group they belong to would be involved in something like that.

I'm not saying it is or isn't happening, and realize current members are focusing on or dealing with other controlling issues within the group or what the group has been teaching them, but do think they should not dismiss factually that sexual abuse is not taking place.
=====================================================================

That's an excellent point. I never really thought about it but I'm sure that if it was my family my first response would be denial.

Gerald wrote:


It didn’t take long for me to become unsettled and disillusioned with Shoresh Yishai and Jack Hickman. Adding to this discomfort and the questions was the knowledge of (or perhaps rumor of) the private lectures being given by Hickman to his select few. These lectures (“teachings”) regarded his family history and lineage ......................................
.......................................................................................................................................................
This was part of a letter which he wrote to a friend in which he describes certain reservations which led him to become dissilusioned with Shoresh Yashi PRIOR to the 1982 article. I have considered this. Now this is pure speculation on my part. Hear say. My own observations. I could be wrong. But...the tirades that I have been on in the past have to do with some of the young adolescent children of some of those women who were getting those special lineage teachings. I think Jack Hickman ''chose'' those women because he sensed that they ...... for whatever reason....did not have that ''red light'' which most moms have.
I do know for a fact...and I can PROVE...(so don't test me)...that one of those women had turned to him for help regarding a relative of hers who was being raped/molested....and Jaocko's response was the beginning of the ''love, let it go, forgive'' teachings. In other words he failed to alert the proper authorities (police/social services), and the next thing you know hers was one of the first families to be invited into his ''inner circle'' and get his ''lineage teachings.''
I would ask people to take this story for what it is worth. If Coons supporters want to challenge or debate me then ok but, it is legal for me to disclose certain provable information. Let me ramble, call me a loon...but don't ask for proof because so help me G-d I'll give it.

One more thing.
The two men who I described as predatory came from families which I know nothing about. This is because I loathed and avoided them. Similarly I had an ''icky'' feeling when I met Jack's friend Auri who later raped a young girl. I believe this is because having come from a family in which the sexual boundaries of young adolescents are respected; I had the ''red light''.
Jack Hickman met and did not like my father. Not at all. He did little to woo my family into the fold. I wonder why.