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exfollower

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disillusioned1
It seems to me like there is paradigm shift happening, and I see it on here as well as with other people that I have spoken to. These are my thoughts, and why I lashed out at concerned.

First, some people/parents have tried to say that IF parts of the Foibles article (like the animal sacrifice) are untrue, then the ENTIRE article is untrue. Concerned did not make this full allusion, but they did ask for "fact" an awful lot. This is nice attempt to help the youth who may be reading this say... no one ever heard of THAT part... maybe the rest is just lies also. Like we've always been taught.

to all - the animal sacrifice story is true. i had a friend who was there. it happened at the southold house. in the back, by the water. he said they put up 'tarps' as 'walls'. he said - "the daylight streaming thru the tarps, gave it all a surrealistic feel." - and, yes, - jack didn't 'do it right'.

how's that, specific enough?

so ... by the 'families' logic... if that is true, (it is). - and did happen, (it did)... - what other facts are 'the family' denying, that are also true?

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disillusioned1
It seems to me like there is paradigm shift happening, and I see it on here as well as with other people that I have spoken to. These are my thoughts, and why I lashed out at concerned.

First, some people/parents have tried to say that IF parts of the Foibles article (like the animal sacrifice) are untrue, then the ENTIRE article is untrue. Concerned did not make this full allusion, but they did ask for "fact" an awful lot. This is nice attempt to help the youth who may be reading this say... no one ever heard of THAT part... maybe the rest is just lies also. Like we've always been taught. Dennis was a digusting homo (not I don't actually think it, it's the group mindset), and Lou was a liar and not to be trusted and abused his position. This is what we were told. A "nasty" few ruined the "good" works that Jack & Gary were trying to create.

This is bull honky. I think we've all seen enough to know that the article is true for the stuff that matters. But it's just one of the tactics that I am noticing.

Seconds tactic: abuse IS awful. I feel so bad for you. Those people should be punished. How "brave" or "courageous" we all are for sharing our abuse stories right?

Wrong. By agreeing with you and stroking your inner victim, you feel better don't you? You feel like, wow that was crappy, and you ARE nice person because you've justified my anger. Who has been accused here so far? Jack? Gary? Not by a first hand account, right? So again, the group leaders can say... oh don't worry. That just happened in THOSE families. Some people were just sick anyway. It was not widespread. It's the individuals problem, not the groups. Again, the group is protected by putting up "those few" to take the blame.

Third tactic: the fact tactic. Where are all the facts? What is a fact? What is the truth? If we don't have those... all these people could just be gossipy. They could be jealous because the group didn't give them what they were looking for. "oh they never fit in" "oh they always had problems" It lets them explain it all away.
There's the problem: this is a GROUP of people. Didn't Jack even teach us that each "eye witness" account of something would be different, because each person is different. They never put anything in writing that was incriminating. As people have said before... it's not being a part of a religious group that's a crime. They carefully hid that stuff that would be.

Fourth tactic: talk is cheap.
What do I mean? How many posters on here have "asked for help." Quite a lot. I'm suspicious of ALL of you. Why are you asking for help? Either you have balls enough to confront your family members or you don't. Period. What about the people offering help? Read some posts by surfer... he's really helpful. Licensed psychiatrist giving us all free counseling lessons out of the kindness of his heart? No. I dont' think so. I could be wrong. But I'm suspicious.
By writing out some carefull phrased questions and answers... as Sallie has pointed out... they set you up.
1) They find out who you are. If you answer one of their questions, they'll know if you've told other people and what you've told other people so they can develop a group response to it to keep the sheeple happy when it upsets them.
2) They discourage other people to talk to their family members. It's really not that hard. You pick up the phone, you say I heard you're in a cult. I fear for your safety. Tell me what is going on or I'm going to call the cops because I'm concerned about your wellbeing. It's really that easy. But if you've read on here that it's not worth trying to change people's minds, that they are all in a "fixed delusion," you might not even try right? You might be defeated before you even pick up the phone. Especially if you REALLY don't know what's going on, and you've heard talk of bows and arrows and retribution of some sort.

Fifth Tactic: It was ALL Jack.
Sallie is right. Jack could not have operated alone. He had help. Where the hell did Gary come from? Why was he suddenly on the scene and Lou was not? What happened there? Anyway... Gary stayed with Jack, after the article, after knowing the men involved and he "left" with Jack and travelled with him. Gary wasn't born into this. He was 17-ish and CHOSE to stay. He showed up at the door and CHOSE to stay. Now he's CHOOSING to lead, or leave if we can believe mainecooncat. Gary TAUGHT THE YOUTH ABOUT THE SEED. I was there. I remember Jack saying... "Gary has been working on a special project.. giggle giggle. He's a little embarrassed,.. giggle, giggle, but it's time that he take his rightful place and begin teaching you." Gary taught us ALL about how a SEED works, and why it's important. We were all encouraged to be "born from above" after that? Anyone else remember?

Just stop trusting people on here. Really. Unless they can tell you within reasonable limits who they are... don't trust them. If people are not willing to share things openly on the message board, don't believe their pm's. They are baiting you. They want to find out who we all are.. who are all these youth on the forum? How can we discredit them and shut them up? How can we combat what they are saying as "truth."

Again, I am Freckle Face. I am not giving out my name, but if we've met... read my blog: butseriouslybaby.blogspot.com and you will QUICKLY know who I am. I'm not telling you to trust me. Maybe you shouldn't. I had posted on the internet a personal letter someone sent to me recently. Why would I do that? Because it wasn't honest. If you are honest. I'll talk to you. If you want to know what I know, then ask. Ask me on here. I'll tell you. Stop hiding.

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Pninaruth
Wait... I was born in 1980. I went to ganon (or how ever the hell you spell it) 1985-86. Our schoolhouse (if I remember correctly) was on his (Jack's) property. His frickn' dog bit my nose. We moved off the island in July of '87. So yes Sallie is totally right. That wrinkle old prune (not insulting the old. This guy just aged BADLY!)

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disillusioned1
Fifth Tactic: It was ALL Jack.
Sallie is right. Jack could not have operated alone. He had help. Where the hell did Gary come from? Why was he suddenly on the scene and Lou was not? What happened there? Anyway... Gary stayed with Jack, after the article, after knowing the men involved and he "left" with Jack and travelled with him. Gary wasn't born into this. He was 17-ish and CHOSE to stay. He showed up at the door and CHOSE to stay. Now he's CHOOSING to lead, or leave if we can believe mainecooncat. Gary TAUGHT THE YOUTH ABOUT THE SEED. I was there. I remember Jack saying... "Gary has been working on a special project.. giggle giggle. He's a little embarrassed,.. giggle, giggle, but it's time that he take his rightful place and begin teaching you." Gary taught us ALL about how a SEED works, and why it's important. We were all encouraged to be "born from above" after that? Anyone else remember?

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Dissilusioned,
Right. That is exactly right.
That's the point I was trying to make.
Jack had help. Gary didn't just magically appear out of thin air. He showed up at the door and CHOSE to stay and now he is CHOOSING to lead. He was part of the gay community and he heard about a wealthy homosexual named Jack and he showed up and they became lovers and Lou got kicked to the curb.
But for some reason, the same people who want to rewrite the history of Shoresh seem to want to attribute something mystical to Gary's arrival. But you're right. He showed up on Jack's door by choice and now he is CHOOSING to lead.
He WAS NOT born into this group.

So after 1997 Gary taught the youth about the seed?

I figured.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2011 09:49AM by Sallie.