Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: disjointed1 ()
Date: August 23, 2011 02:52AM

My fears are not rational. But I struggle with a lot. I used to war with myself. Had I been more faithful, would I have avoided getting such a disabling disease. That kind of crap. It's all bullshit. I have no legal basis for 'reporting' them. And if everyone thinks it is so easy, then go ahead. I don't have any relavent information to share, in the legal scope of things. Don't think I haven't pondered it. I knew I was lying and manipulating people all to 'protect the family'. Where did that get me? No where. Divorced. Alone and very scared. Do I have a wonderful man in my life? Yes. Do I have a child I love more than anything? Yes. It does not however avoid being scared or feeling alone. I do not consider myself a victim or a survivor. In fact, I hate those terms. I just got dealt a shit hand in life and I do my best to build a positive life. Some days are better than others. It is a process, not a destination.

The more truth shared and exchanged, the better. None of it is pretty. I think it is far more complex than just coming from GOONS. I think the instability of this group allows other manipulators and psychotic people to thrive and move. I could be very wrong. Part of me hopes that I am.

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: OnlyAGirl ()
Date: August 23, 2011 04:19AM

New to posting, but frequent reader of this message board. I, along with disillusioned and others, have recently left this cult. I still have family members involved and am deeply saddened by the current happenings. I don't know first hand what is going on but knowing the recent history of this cult, freckle face's postings are on point. And it is obvious that the information is coming from someone who is presently there. I had found this site a few years ago, confronted my parents about it and got vague answers explaining the articles that were mentioned. I was given the run-around being told that "abba" was weeding out those that weren't the chosen people to live out god's work. I only recently started reading the posts again and came to the realization that I had been living a brainwashed life that constantly intereferes with my daily living. I am here now posting because I am finding myself needing to work through my "ah has" and want to do so with others that share my experience. I don't think I will be bringing anything to the table that isn't already known about the cult. My wish is that people who are like me and are reading/posting can come forward and not feel alienated by those trying to convince us otherwise. I will post further once I gather my thoughts on what I feel is important to share.

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: exfollower ()
Date: August 23, 2011 06:05AM

i posted this on 'but seriously" - in a comment to her blog on 'hierachy' in 'the family'. i guess i wanted to share it here also.

"i have an 'old story' for ya. - back when jack appointed the first 12 'elders', we all thought (or were told) that jack was given these names by 'the almighty'.

well of course, he wouldn't just pick em himself!

once a year, some continued and some new people were elders. ok, that's god's plan.

so after the 'exodus' in 1981, some 'elders' left. - in his divine wisdom, jack appointed others to take their place...

except, he called one guy, and told him - he was NOW an 'elder'...

and this guy told jacko - "hey, sorry, but i'm out. i'm leaving. i left!"

'the voice of god', speaking thru jack... in very mysterious ways, YES?"

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: exfollower ()
Date: August 23, 2011 06:13AM

New to posting, but frequent reader of this message board. I, along with disillusioned and others, have recently left this cult..

as i've told other 'EXs' - if only one person is helped by this forum, it's done a fine job!!!

tho, i believe. there is more to be done!

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: Sallie ()
Date: August 23, 2011 09:28AM

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted
and personal contact is avoided.

Between the years 1981 and up until the present day I'm going to conclude that Gary Coons is the one constant.
Gary and Jack held things together in N.Y. between the years 1981 - 1986.
Gary stepped in as the healthier of the two ''co-leaders'' between 1996 and Jack's death.
Gary has led the group between the time of Jacks death and his recent duck into the closet.
Gary is, I would assume, pulling some strings at the present time.

What sort of private lessons has Gary Coons given in regards to mikvehs and Holy Seed?

Jack Hickman is dead. He's not giving people messages from the beyond. Because he's dead. Dead people don't give messages to people who are alive.
They just don't.

I hope and pray that more men come forward with their stories about what sort of private lessons Gary Coons may have given in regards to mikvehs and Holy Seed, Maybe Gary is sending messages to his followers in cloaked any mysterious sounding ways. Maybe Gary is trying to discourage members from contacting outsiders, family or authorities with the facts about his ''lessons''.

But Jack isn't sending any messages. Jack didn't pre-program his followers to do anything. Jack is powerless because he's dead. Jack is dead.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2011 09:44AM by Sallie.

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: Sallie ()
Date: August 23, 2011 11:10PM

One thing that cult leaders rely on is the feelings of shame that they produce in their followers. Any time that these cowards think they have made a victim/follower experience shame; they try to use that as a tool to gain and regain and maintain control. Shaming children is used in dysfunctional homes. It is also used by cult leaders. It's why the young men in the 70s who were part of the inner circle of this group could get a 14 year old boy drunk and then laugh like little girls when the boy became violently ill.

Why do you think they offer such strict rules that they themselves coax followers into breaking? There is a method to the madness. Unrealistic expectations of inner perfection leave a follower feeling even more shattered when they fail.

''Healing the Shame That Binds You'' by Bradshaw is an old book but very easy to read. As he talks about the dysfunctional parents I like to imagine the cult leaders also.

Any good therapist who has NO AFFILIATIONS OR CONNECTIONS to this group would likely be able to guide a victim of sexual exploitation. Especially the men. The men who Gary Coons and his closest friends have given ''special'' instuction to, need to realize that they're not alone.

Just think of some of the antics in some of the churches run by Catholic priests and....they have oversight.
This group needs some more oversight. A therapist. A law officer. A civil rights lawyer.
Victims have a lot of rights. A lot of rights. If leaders had some info. that they thought they could use to ''shame'' a victim into silence then they need to realize that they have dug their own grave. Humiliating people is part of sexual exploitation. Blackmailing people is a crime. Even and especially if this is done in subtle ways.

These people are WEAK. They are NOT POWERFUL MEN. Powerful men do not exploit children, women, employees, dependents, trusting Americans.
Their MINDS ARE NOT POWERFUL. Truth is powerful. Telling the truth is powerful. Manipulating people who are trusting and gullible is NOT POWERFUL. It is WEAK.

These are WEAK people who can't continue to lead if no one continues to follow. I used to think that if I let myself get decieved or hurt or violated that I was weak and that I should be ashamed. THAT IS TRUE BRAINWASHING. It is true brainwashing to think that child molestors and cult leaders and sex predators have any power at all. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We are citizens of AMERICA....we do not need to be citizens of some crazy depraved SUB-CULTURE of pedophiles.

Do the math.
Just do the math.
Look at prison stats.
There are the Ayran gangs
The Latino gangs
The Asian gangs

Where are the pedophile gangs?? In prison? Even in prison they don't succeed. They are NOT powerful people. They are criminals. They belong in jail.

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: Sallie ()
Date: August 23, 2011 11:33PM

Cult leaders try to impose FORCED CONFESSIONS on their followers.

This is also a way to elicit shame and compliance.

They sometimes keep letters or journals (Corboy posted about that. I'll try to find and re-post it)

This is also a tool which they think they can use against their victims. Blackmail. Shame. The irony is that by doing this they are documenting THEIR OWN wickedness. Voyerism(however spelled), Invasive tactics, Blackmailing....these are not socially acceptable forms of behaviour and border on illegal.

Trying to shame victims of their own exploitive practices by further threatening to ''shame'' the victim with proof that they'd been exploited is WEAK. It is a COWARDLY attempt at covering/masking their own illegal acts.

I AM....
I WAS...
I'm remembering and telling the story from the status of a VICTIM because if I dont one will think that criminal acts may still be occuring.


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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: Sallie ()
Date: August 23, 2011 11:39PM

So again...saying ''oh gosh I think I WAS A VICTIM'' is nothing to be ashamed of.

Attempting to coax victims into ''re-writing'' the story IS something to be ashamed of. Attempting to coax victims with ''shhh...don't tell'll feel ashamed...calling yourself a victim sounds so weak''...well...that IS something to be ashamed of.

Hello 911?

Hello Therapist?

Hello Lawyer?

''I was a victim of......and what happend was....and this guy Gary Coons he did...and they tricked's how etc...etc.......''

It's nothing to be ashamed of.

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: damaged13 ()
Date: August 24, 2011 02:10AM

Oh geez, an earthquake an the east coast...this is really gonna set them off.

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Re: Jack Hickman
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 24, 2011 05:12AM

To be a victim is to be on the receiving end of another person's mis-used agency.

Making powerholders accountable for their mis-use of power is assigning agency where it belongs. That isnt being a victim, thats putting responsiblity in its proper place.

Which is exactly what abusers are afraid of, hence their favorite tactic of trying to deny there's such a thing as victim.

Not in the eys of the law, or journalism.

And your own hearts and nerve ends know the truth.

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