Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: May 20, 2010 12:39AM

Concerning donations I would just like to repeat two links here concerning Soak University of America and Soka Gakkai USA. In a way it speaks for itself looking at total assets.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Blue Lady ()
Date: May 20, 2010 12:57AM

In some since I can see a Ghost Writer or consultant help you write a book if you are not trained to do such tasks.
So that begs the question was there a Ghost writer(s) as the Human Revolution was being written? Or did some later years as he got busy with traveling and the growth of SGI -- he had a staff to write the old novel and the new one?
Also why would you have someone to write the Daily Guidance of all things? That’s perplexing.
The Monthly Gosho Lecture – Here we sit discussing (in our Gosho study meetings) what we think Pres Ikeda is telling us about the Gosho and it’s not even him. Now I understand why I had a hard time digesting the mentor and disciple principle- later coined the Oneness of mentor in disciple relationship
. It was like Pres Ikeda was telling me in a way to be just like he was with Toda. I just did not understand how he was so bold to insinuate I had to have the same relationship with him. It felt to me that someone else must be writing this message to us. Otherwise Pres Ikeda was being very arrogant in a way to say “Hey look at my love for Today” “Don’t you want to love me too? And do for me whatever I ask without question”? However he knew Toda personally just like one would know a good friend. Naturally you would feel such bonds to a good friend. But to ask the masses to love you and they have not even seen you set foot in the USA on over 30 years—what gives. Even for me, I had not seen the man in my presence since 1975 and again 1981.
The Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra I can see staffs of people doing that – the whole series of books are based on (perhaps recorded) conversation with at least 3 or 4 top leaders in the SGI.
His speeches are research by a staff of young people. The person telling me this told me this innocently not knowing this gives weight to the Ghost writer’s contract. Each time some dignitary meets Pres Ikeda he has a staff to research the country and important historical figures so he can quote them in his speeches.
So what I believe to be his words and ideas are not? Does the Pope have ghost writes I guess so.
So to keep this perpetuating it after he dies all kinds of novels will come out about him and his ideas printed posthumous to keep the cash cow going in book sales.
So I paid $45 for the old human revolution because Sophia group are now done on the Area Level to get more WD to participate. Even then I thought boy they are racking up the dough. Just with our Area alone they will make $1350 times that more or less by each Area in the US. Easily this book could sell in the range of $3,000,000.00 just this year alone- a very conservative estimate.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: May 20, 2010 01:57AM

Well, concerning the pope I guess he do has his aides ( i.e. get me this and that reference and so forth) and I do not like him very much – but he sure is one thing, a theologian in his own right, so I guess were pope is written on there is pope inside in terms of authorship.
When it comes to Ikeda I have my severe doubts. He is a poor photographer and lousy poet (who ever writes this stuff for him should get sacked) and who ever got the idea to proclaim him as a philosopher should be sent to a mental institution as he just quotes and this sometimes even wrong and badly. That's my two cent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2010 02:00AM by Rothaus.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: doubtful ()
Date: May 20, 2010 01:57AM

Speaking of The Human Revolution, I am SO glad I never read more than a page of it, and only since brief excerpts occasionally appeared as the discussion material at Mens meetings. I knew from the beginning, 22 years ago when I joined, that only a cult would put out a series of books like that. How preposterous, members sitting around reading a fictionalized account of SGI and Ikeda's rise to power, while the writer uses a pseudonym so that people would not suspect him of self-aggrandizement. Ugh!!! Furthermore, the bits I read were so embarrassing. All I could think is why would ANYONE read this? Okay, so I am glad that I never turned my brain off enough to buy or read any of those ridiculous books.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: doubtful ()
Date: May 20, 2010 02:08AM

I am still a district leader, and I probably shall remain so, but I will not do anything to encourage a frenzied skakubuku campaign for the sake of Rock the Era. In fact, I am afraid of what that event will look like when it finally arrives. First of all, it will be empty (here at least). Second, I can just see leaders suddenly encouraging EVERYONE to attend, with guests--all to listen to what? Silly performances and vows to follow President Ikeda. Enough with all of this already! Why all the desperation? Buddhism's illumination of fundamental darkness, enlightenment--the end of delusion take time. These things will not happen on July 10, thankfully.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: May 20, 2010 02:17AM

Doubtful I think you are indeed in a tricky situation if still district leader! As I said left 5 years ago, one of the things that made me leave was SGI' intolerant ways. I am openly gay and could not support that no longer – the diversity meetings to me were mere propaganda – as guidances to chant to become straight did still circulate.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Blue Lady ()
Date: May 20, 2010 02:34AM

Quote
Blue Lady
Yes, thanks I knew Charles personally back in the day. I remember him telling me he was writing his book and just knew that the SGI would promote and support it just like they were doing with everyother non-Buddhist on Middle Way Press. Somehow SGI rejected him. I do not know why. I just knew at the time his book would help members who were suffering from cancer.
Fraught with Peril – I read from time to time.
Linda I read her archived site and I remember hearing about her on ARBN or the IRG I think?

A FEW HOURS LATER I DECIDED TO REPLY TO WHAT I WROTE?

I think the book Charles refered to was Buddha in Your Mirror. It makes sense to me now. We had the talk at the Center and thats when Midway Books was getting ready to launch . He would have thought to himself since he wrote the book or at least started until the trashed it - that they would support his book on Cancer... and Mr C publisher of LB was located in the same said center... it stands to reason now.
He is right the book was dismal for me. We supported the book tour .






quote tsukimoto]
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Blue Lady
on a seperate note-----
She had mention before that the new guidance book out that is paperback and yellow is not written by Daisaku Ikeda. I don’t rightly know because I have not bought it.
However yesterday at the Sophia group meeting one of the WD read from this book. I realize I have never heard guidance like that before. What I mean Pres Ikeda does not write like that or speak like that. IT was more AMERICAN thought process if you get my drift. It was for May 16th. Has anyone else gotten the impression that he has Ghost’s writers?
.

Blue Lady, have you ever heard of Lisa Jones? She's a journalist from Colorado, and a former SGI member who worked as a ghostwriter for Ikeda. She angered SGI by telling people that she was a ghostwriter. Usually, ghostwriters sign a contract promising that they will not tell anyone that they wrote the book. For this, they're paid well, probably much more than they could earn selling a manuscript of their own. She also posted an anti-SGI website. It seems that SGI's lawyers came after her. She had to quit speaking about SGI and she had to take her website down. This was in the 1990's.

This is from page 53 of this thread:

The case of Lisa Jones: She was a ghost writer for President Ikeda -- actually not an uncommon thing. According to Charles Atkins, who is quoted below, this kind of arrangement is common. Famous people often do not write their own books and speeches. Many celebrities rely on ghostwriters who are paid well for their work but receive no credit or royalties -- and this is all part of the ghostwriter's contract. Charles Atkins, who writes a blog for www.fraughtwithperil.com explains below how this works.

-----------------------Beginning of Quote, Fraught With Peril Website, Kempon Hokke Blog--------------------------------

What Lisa Jones was enountered with was this: the master of a religious organization of tens of millions, allowing professional and superbly adept minions to write books for the public forum, that would be credited exclusively to Him.

My opinion here is that there was an ethical breech at the highest possible levels in allowing this to happen. I'm quite sure Mr. Ikeda is fully capable of writing his own books and I am sure that once the work-for-hire project was finished, edited, translated back into Japanese, the book was gone over by Mr. Ikeda. That's a huge assumption on my part, as it's also quite possible that Mr. Ikeda never laid eyes on the manuscript but had a team of his most trusted editors like Ms. Shinbutsu, his personal English editor do that final bidding.

Either way, from a writer's standpoint, a $15,000 contract to sift through lectures, notes, previous works, assemble them and compose a manuscript on a subject that you're intimately familiar with, would be a dream come true. If Lisa were to put together a manuscript on Buddhism of her own, that would bear her name on the jacket, she would be lucky to get a thousand dollar advance against royalties. In truth, she might have to submit her manuscript to hundreds of publishers over the course of years before she got an offer - IF she got an offer.

That's why, a $15K deal to write a book for a world famous person is a deal that's damn near impossible to pass up. The fact that this project was offered to her speaks volumes to her level of expertise. Where the rub came in was after the fact, when the realization came that the organization was fooling the members and that burning question of how many other books were published under his name that he did not write? So, I do understand what she did and why she did it. I have asked myself many times if I would do the same and can't truly answer that question. What I can say is that I respect Lisa's guts to listen to her conscience and do what she thought was the right thing. The money and the prestige can be very tempting, but the rules are simple: if you take the money, they have bought your silence.

I do know one thing, they'll think twice before they do that again. If that's what Lisa Jones accomplished, we all owe her a debt of gratitude.

A contract writer, which I was at one time for the SGI, signs away their rights to royalities and credit. This arrangement is extremely common in professional writing. The whole idea is for an expert writer to take on an agreed upon project for pay without credit - it's standard. A ghost writer is someone who is employed on contract to write and possibly help edit a work of fiction or perhaps non-fiction. The difference between a ghost writer and a contract writer is the same as the distinction between a hooker and a call girl.

Where legal trouble emerges is when a contract writer breaks their contract and discloses the specific nature of their work for hire, thus diminishing possible sales of the published work, as well as impuning the credited author. Every writer knows this. You sign a contract as a writer for hire, you take the money, keep your yap shut, and let others take credit for your work. Standard, standard, standard.

I will say this about my own writer for hire with the SGI, without disclosing which project(s) I worked on: They paid me on time. They were very involved in the process. There were more editoral layers than skins on an onion. AND, when we were done, they didn't use a single sentence I wrote. In other words, the SGI completely wasted the members' money on a writing project that they ended up doing themselves. Their finished project of the work they contracted me to write? A best seller for them that I consider utter crap. They probably thought my submission was crap, but I have to confess that what they published was awful.

Charles, Mr. Writer for Hire, and if the price is right, I don't kiss and tell.

Posted by Charles at October 4, 2009 02:27 PM
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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: doubtful ()
Date: May 20, 2010 02:40AM

Rothaus, in all fairness no one and nothing in SGI has ever encouraged me to be straight or chant to be straight or fake it. I am in a tricky situation because my heart has just about left the organization but I am yet unwilling to openly leave. Truthfully, even when I have voiced my problems to the national leaders, they have been remarkably accepting of my struggles. Perhaps this is why I have stayed so long.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: May 20, 2010 02:50AM

@ doubtful

so it has served is purpose - you stayed on. to be honest I myself was never asked to chant to become straight either but I heard diffrent too.
one remarkable thing about SGI an oganisation of "humanism". just look at the total assets mentioned at SGU.
- no remarkable contributions to ease human suffering
- no SGI relief organisation
- not ONCE speaking up against human rights violations
- not once taking a stand on current affairs that could be interpreted as taking sides ... taking a stand

ONLY mainstream, no causes made no fights fought for nobody who does not have the energy BUT comparing oneself with gandhi and king. How utterly sickening. Please remeber those 900 Million at SGU alone !!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2010 02:57AM by Rothaus.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: doubtful ()
Date: May 20, 2010 04:50AM

Hey lthomas, please chant by all means. I may be increasingly fed up with the organization after reading this forum (almost obsessively) but the actual practice is fantastic. I hope I will never stop doing it. Even some, just some of the activities were beneficial--mostly the fact that I was encouraged to have a consistent daily practice replete with plenty of daimoku. That continues to be my foundation.

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