lthomas and findingmyway, I also have suffered from depression and anxiety. At the time I encountered SGI, I was desperate to find something to help me deal with it. The chanting seemed to regulate my emotions -- make me feel more energetic when I was lethargic and depressed, and make me feel calmer when I was anxious. The activities distracted me from my worries and problems, and it also seemed as if the SGI members were a caring community. Of course, the flip side to that was opening myself up to SGI's manipulation.

Could I have gotten similar results from chanting something else and joining a bowling league, a book club, or doing volunteer work? Maybe. And the truth is, life just goes up and down -- sometimes things are going great and sometimes everything just goes wrong, whether you're chanting or not. At the time I joined, I'd lost both a job and a major relationship, and I was depressed over that. But you know, in time I would have gotten over that anyway, whether I had been in SGI or not. SGI of course was happy to take credit for my getting over it!

This is SGI's history. The membership exploded in Japan after its defeat in World War II. A lot of "new religions" began, and established religions grew, after 1945. The Japanese were depressed from being defeated. People had lost homes, and loved ones in the war; people from the countryside were displaced from villages to cities --- so many people were looking for something, and President Toda was able to market SGI to fill that need.

From the "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements" Board, the James Ray thread, by WC

This is something that I think everyone needs to know!

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I did not know where to put this on the forum. So, I thought I would just put this study here:
Brain shuts off in response to healer's prayer

[www.newscientist.com]

WHEN we fall under the spell of a charismatic figure, areas of the brain responsible for scepticism and vigilance become less active. That's the finding of a study which looked at people's response to prayers spoken by someone purportedly possessing divine healing powers.

...

Only in the devout volunteers did the brain activity monitored by the researchers change in response to the prayers. Parts of the prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices, which play key roles in vigilance and scepticism when judging the truth and importance of what people say, were deactivated when the subjects listened to a supposed healer. Activity diminished to a lesser extent when the speaker was supposedly a normal Christian (Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, DOI: 10.1093/scan/nsq023).

Schjødt says that this explains why certain individuals can gain influence over others, and concludes that their ability to do so depends heavily on preconceived notions of their authority and trustworthiness.

It's not clear whether the results extend beyond religious leaders, but Schjødt speculates that brain regions may be deactivated in a similar way in response to doctors, parents and politicians.
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I think that this is why some of the SGI conventions and Ikeda-casts were so weird and scary to me. Some members were so into it. I was for a while, and then it just began to seem strange. I wondered, were the other members crazy, or was I? The answer is, seeing or hearing of Ikeda deactivates some members' prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices! No wonder you can't talk to hardcore members.

Thank you lthomas and tsukimoto! I really appreciate your feedback. When the anxiety hit more recently, I didn't want to let myself believe that this was because I wasn't chanting anymore. That belief is self limiting and makes me feel like I can only survive with the help of the SGI.

I remember a few months ago right before I found this board, I felt the need to read about criticism of the SGI. I came across this board and really related to so much that was said. I decided to talk to the chapter leader about it as well. She said she can't read that stuff because it didn't serve her. Others felt I was just experiencing Sansho Shima, and I almost thought that for a while. I am continuing to feel the need to move on. I do like my Gohonzon and appreciate what it represents, but feel weirded out about role of Ikeda and how so many members are so blind.

Lthomas, Guess what...I also got my Gohonzon 4 years ago on May 7th. That is such a coincidence!

@findingmyway. You are welcome anytime. I remember in the early years of my practice when I had my doubts of SGI, yet I never did any research at that time. I do however remember asking my shakabuku if we were considered a cult, and that was only because I heard that Orlando Bloom was in a cult. I remember her asking why I felt the need to question this, and I voiced some of my concerns and her exact word were, "well if you feel that way you can leave anytime, whereas cults will keep you secluded and won't allow you to leave". By that time I was actually hooked and dependent on the organization for my salvation, and in my heart I know she knew that I was not going to up and leave. Plus there was the fact that I suffered from depression and she knew about it. Often times indirectly she would predict gloom and doom for me if I chose to leave. What's interesting though is that at the end of 2008, when I decided to do some research, it came as a result of a pity party which led to boredom and had nothing to do at the time with anything that any member had done/said to me. Now this in no way takes away the negativity that I experienced as a result of being in the organization because there were plenty of RED FLAGS. The first place that I came was here. Never in a million years did I expect to find so many experiences like I have on this thread similar to mine!!! In fact I thought I was going to find a lot of people praising the organization and a few naysayers. This "enlightenment" (no pun intended) as to what each and everyone of us had gone through was a wake-up call!!! It confirmed what I had known in my heart all along. I was in a cult and I chose to delude myself. It was like being smacked in the chest with a dose of reality. There was no way that these experiences similar to mine could be made up. From that point on I knew that my shakaubuku and other were preying on my emotions. Especially since I am a sensitive person and was often reprimanded in the organization for being that way, therefore letting my "fundamental darknesses" take over me. So they told me.

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lthomas
@findingmyway. You are welcome anytime. I remember in the early years of my practice when I had my doubts of SGI, yet I never did any research at that time. I do however remember asking my shakabuku if we were considered a cult, and that was only because I heard that Orlando Bloom was in a cult. I remember her asking why I felt the need to question this, and I voiced some of my concerns and her exact word were, "well if you feel that way you can leave anytime, whereas cults will keep you secluded and won't allow you to leave". By that time I was actually hooked and dependent on the organization for my salvation, and in my heart I know she knew that I was not going to up and leave. Plus there was the fact that I suffered from depression and she knew about it. Often times indirectly she would predict gloom and doom for me if I chose to leave. What's interesting though is that at the end of 2008, when I decided to do some research, it came as a result of a pity party which led to boredom and had nothing to do at the time with anything that any member had done/said to me. Now this in no way takes away the negativity that I experienced as a result of being in the organization because there were plenty of RED FLAGS. The first place that I came was here. Never in a million years did I expect to find so many experiences like I have on this thread similar to mine!!! In fact I thought I was going to find a lot of people praising the organization and a few naysayers. This "enlightenment" (no pun intended) as to what each and everyone of us had gone through was a wake-up call!!! It confirmed what I had known in my heart all along. I was in a cult and I chose to delude myself. It was like being smacked in the chest with a dose of reality. There was no way that these experiences similar to mine could be made up. From that point on I knew that my shakaubuku and other were preying on my emotions. Especially since I am a sensitive person and was often reprimanded in the organization for being that way, therefore letting my "fundamental darknesses" take over me. So they told me.

I can totally relate. I was kind of bored, and decided to look up criticism of the SGI as well. I have never been good at shakabukuing people because it wasn't in my heart to do so. I remember telling another member when she showed up at my door to chant unexpectedly that the SGI is a cult, and she thought I was crazy. She said: how could you say such a thing, how could I? I think I was realizing the truth of the organization. I find that it has gotten worse recently with the whole mentor/disciple dogma pushed down members throats. It is scary to all at once be on my own. I am talking to members, but am feeling the same way about the organization being a cult. I also suffer from depression/anxiety and am a sensitive individual and people in the organization know this about me, and I wonder now if they used it. I also used the organization as a support system, but I wonder if I would actually be friends with a lot of them if we hadn't had SGI in common. I am grateful now that I am reaching out for help for my anxiety in other ways. I used the SGI as a band aid to cover up my low self esteem. I thought if I would chant hard enough, things would get better. I feel upset that discretion about issues is not at the top of the list of importance in the SGI. So often when I would have an issue with another member, I prefered not to mention the members name, and other members would tell me that I wouldn't be gossiping if I shared the name of the person, but it bothered me to do so.

I also found that even things I do now that are good in my life, many members feel that it is because I chanted to the Gohonzon to get them, and because my life condition is higher than it was before I chanted. They didn't know me before I chanted. I had many good things happen to me before chanting, and I must remind myself again that I will have many good things happen regardless of chanting or not. I would like to think it has nothing to do with the SGI. I think this is part of their brainwashing technique to tell you that the things that are good happened because you chanted and participated in the SGI.

@findingmyway, In the beginning before I could see things for what they were, and before the delusion, I thought that the organization was awesome. In truth during my first 4-6 months of the organization we very seldom talked about Ikeda and focused more on chanting, Nichiren and Shakaymuni Buddha. Then something change and I no longer began to Shakabuku as many people as I had in the past. I couldn't live with the guilt of making them go through what others had made me go through. As a matter of fact there was always some pressure to introduce someone to the practice and was very uncomfortable. It was like a pyramid scheme!!! I can recall when I moved into a good area one of the leaders gave me a stern look and told me to be on the look out for "potential YWD'S" walking around the neighborhoods to bring to meetings. 3 years ago on during Easter, I was to have a YWD meeting at my house. Anyways I had informed the area YWD that I was ready and prepared and that I had knocked on every neighbor's door to let them know if the chanting would be loud that we would quiet down. She looked at me as if I had committed the ultimate sin and began to reprimand me for not shakabuking the people in my apartment building!!! Those were the early signs of my fear and delusion seeping in. Furthermore, towards the end of my practice recently I had gone to a district meeting and one of the area leaders had told everyone that in order to shakabuku people, she would often lie to their faces and tell them that their was something about them that seemed spiritual. When the person would reply that they did not practice anything spiritual that is when she would hook them in!!! Everyone laughed and thought that this was a clever ploy to get people to join. I was actually sick to my stomach and could not believe that someone would have the audacity to do something like that. Yet I must admit that in some ways I was a willing participant indirectly because I chose not to say nothing. I thank God (figuratively speaking) that I am not apart of this anymore.

First of all, thanks to all on this forum for your openness.......................... On April 18 I unceremoniously rolled up the scroll and said out loud: "You know why I am doing this", in case the Law was listening. With the causes and lack of causes made by SGI, I needed to separate myself from the central symbol of their power in my home. I put the box away somewhere also.
Everything has been more than fine. Some compulsive behaviour I have had for years has dropped off including occasional smoking, being impatient and easily angered. I have been successfully losing weight and learning food recipes and engaging in reading and writing. I have been having real conversations with friends and acquaintances and remaining unflustered when encountering obstacles. For the first time in over 20 years I feel like I am in my own skin. I am not feeling I have to be a certain way when entering a room filled with people. At the same time I am being decent with people and having a sense of humour.
Despite all the red flags, I had remained attached at some level with the Group. Some random items from the past:
Someone began to give their experience of being cynical about the Gandhi, King, Ikeda exhibit mentioning they felt uncomfortable about Mr. Ikeda putting himself on a pedestal with the other two. At the time I was both happy someone was questioning and nervous about the group reaction. The conclusion of the experience was that person's approval of the exhibit after chanting and doing activities, not even a mention of why Ikeda is worthy. Just a change in personal attitude.
Listening to a pre-teen give her experience at a huge meeting (me driving 2 hours for this) about locking herself in a closet accidentally and no one being around to let her out. After chanting a long time, she tried the doorknob again and it opened. Hundreds of members clapped and cheered. I'll refrain from commenting on this for now except to say there is the emphasis by some members to say it isn't 'magic', but a roomful of adults will encourage a young person and themselves to believe this.
I have sometimes leaned toward mystical thinking myself beyond what this group has encouraged but I have let that go along with attempts to embrace other spiritual practices. On April 18 I chanted "Om mani Padme Hum" instead while sitting on a cushion, thought I would do this twice a day instead, then thought of doing it once a day...if I think of it, and only 108 times like in the tradition of many mantras. But....
Personally, I Am Greatly Enjoying The Freedom In My Mind Right Now And Don't Need Someone Else's System Of Thought Right Now, Thank You!
Really. I could have done that personality test instead while walking down the sidewalk in the city and be a Scientologist instead with a different charismatic leader, a different great mission for peace and personal behaviour, a different list of celebrity adherents in the group, different loaded language and buzzwords and questionable money practices and treatment of doubters. Different?
Thank you.

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rattyboy
Really. I could have done that personality test instead while walking down the sidewalk in the city and be a Scientologist instead with a different charismatic leader, a different great mission for peace and personal behaviour, a different list of celebrity adherents in the group, different loaded language and buzzwords and questionable money practices and treatment of doubters. Different?
Thank you.

Amazing! This should be the motto of the 'Ex-SGI' forum. :)


I totally agree with you rattyboy. If the Buddha was alive today he would be devestated at what has happened to his teachings. Yes the Buddha encouraged people to listen to his teachings and read his sutras, but these were simply guides, the Buddha always encouraged people to obtain their own realization through personal experience, and he encouraged people to critically question his teachings and find out for themselves if they were true.

He did not encourage people to listen to a teacher thousands of miles away who you will never meet, who also demands a large portion of your income to be part of his organisation.

As for the other point about 'bad things' happening if you don't chant. I am still affected by this myself. I may be losing my job soon, the other day while walking to work I had an extremely strong sensation apear from the back of my mind that this was only happening because I have stopped chanting and stopped going to meetings. I caught myself realizing this and felt ashamed of myself for falling back into that thought pattern. SGI's manipulation is extremely strong, I think I underestimated the amount of effort I would need to put in to get it out of my mind.

So now instead of chanting I am actively and positively looking for a new job, I'll report back on which action brings about the best result. :)

I mentioned in a post a few pages back that I've taken up martial arts, I can't even describe what a positive impact this has had on my mind and self confidence. I've also begun reading into Taoism (oooh all the buddhists in the room start getting their backs up) but from what I've read so far its ultimate teaching is exactly the same as buddhism, just without defining it as 'enlightenment', and no 'Buddha' character to look up to. Its very refreshing. :)

(The above is in no way an attack on buddhism or the Buddha, just a different way of thinking about things.)


@ Findingmywaytoday and lthomas: I think you're doing exactly the right thing getting professional counseling. SGI certainly cannot help. The experienced people on this forum can help with 'de-programming' from SGI and dealing with some of the SGI specific issues. But you are really doing the best thing speaking to a professional counselor about the non-SGI issues. I wont say that I'll pray or chant for your success, but I will earnestly, sincerely hope. :)