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doubtful
Reading the posts on this site is becoming an obsession for me. I have been an SGI member for over 20 years, a district leader for about 6. I have always had reservations about many things in the organization, including Master-Disciple which later became Mentor-Disciple. I joined because I was searching for a dynamic spiritual experience among progressive people( I was openly gay), but I wanted it rooted in some tradition. Scientology or any new age thing was not appealing AT ALL. A co-worker thought Nichiren Buddhism could help me sort out some of my demons. It did. I became very involved in brass band, gymnastics, shakubuku campaigns, tosos, discussion meetings etc. My non-SGI friends said I was indeed happier than I had been before. although I was constantly trying to bring in new recruits. I did make some genuine friends in SGI(NSA back then). In fact, I cherish those early years despite the cult-like craziness which I demonstrated. But two things never sat right with me: 1)members were constantly encouraged to chant to get stuff or become something 2)most SGI members and the publications knew nothing about Buddhism outside of SGI's version of Nichiren. In my own study I would learn about apparently significant Buddhist concepts that would rarely appear in the pubs. However, the Eightfold Path and the Four Noble Truths did eventually appear in Living Buddhism and I then felt SGI was in fact improving. I made it my mission to lead discussions incorporating these concepts and others in my district. This went well, although some hardcore members felt I was too scholarly. So everything was fine then a few years ago this whole Ikeda worship with those awful videos went into overdrive. I had always thought his "poetry" did not deserve that label, but I could ignore that. What I could not ignore was the constant emphasis on the Mentor-Disciple. Has it occurred to anyone of these believers in it that the vast majority of successful people in the world never heard of this practice--that you don't practice Buddhism to make your dreams come true! You practice Buddhism to overcome the 4/8 sufferings, to improve your perceptions, and to illuminate your fundamental darkness--not to get stuff like money, raises, partners, jobs, auditions, etc. I also identify with a lot, too many of the issues raised against SGI in this forum. However, I don't have the guts to leave, yet at least. Furthermore, I like singing "Forever Sensei," whenever I am at a big meeting at the center(which is very, very rare) simply because I like the tune and the energy of everyone coming together to sing it arm in arm. Truthfully, this forum may initiate my departure from the organization but not the practice. Nothing beats it. I simply don't care about ment-disc despite the number of times I have gotten guidance on it. I also simply do not believe Ikeda or SGI do ANYTHING to make the world a more peaceful place. Receiving honorary doctorates, putting up pictures, poetry, and exhibits don't change anything. There's so much more I can write and all with a heavy heart.

Hi doubtful, from reading this (and your other posts) I can totally identify with how you feel. I split from SGI back in January after 4 years of being a member. I couldn't come to my own realisation of what SGI was about, it took a person I was trying to Shakabuku to challenge me to read this forum for me to see the truth of SGI. I can honestly say I have never felt so emotionally distraught, confused and weak in my life. Its a massive thing to challenge such a deeply rooted belief you have, SGI is so deep in your mind. You seem much stronger than me, I couldn't handle it, and actually posted on here trying to defend SGI, because I couldn't think what else to do. You mentioned in another post that you felt like you wanted to cry, when your ready, maybe you should let it all out. I know I cried alot.
I wasn't a leader or anything like that, obviously your situation is more complicated. I think you should rely on your own wisdom to decide what to do and when to do it. But be assured there are many people on this forum who will support you and help you make sense of things.
From your other posts it sounds like you have a very deep knowledge and understanding of real Buddhism. You wont lose that if you leave SGI, infact you will probably develop more and more.
With regards to your mom, I would say use your own wisdom to decide if you want to put her through what you are going through at the age she is. There is nothing 'magic', in a good way or bad, about SGI. If your mom is a good person she will be protected.
There is a term in psychology, 'cognitive dissonance', which refers to when a deeply rooted belief which you are so sure about that you take it for granted, is challenged by the 'logic' part of brain, the mind finds it very difficult to cope. There is a 'war' in your mind, between your old, entrenched thoughts, and the new critical thinking which you find it hard to ignore now that you are so aware of it. I would say this takes time to heal and for you to become stable again. Take plenty of time for yorself, time to think things through, and time to take care of yourself.
I hope I'm not being presumptuous, I just got the impression from your posts that you have many of the same feelings that I had.
Take care of yourself, please keep us posted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2010 05:38AM by DavidM.

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Rothaus
Concerning donations I would just like to repeat two links here concerning Soak University of America and Soka Gakkai USA. In a way it speaks for itself looking at total assets.

Dear Rothaus:

I like that, "Soak [the members] University."

Nichijew

Post Mortem Practice

It's interesting reading the various views regarding whether a person should remain in or leave SGI. It isn't clear to me how long each person has practiced but I wanted to put my $.02 in to illuminate something I think I'm seeing.

For members who joined NSA/SGI after the "schism" / Break away from the temple and move to "alternative" gohonzons I'm sure SGI/NSA is just one uninterrupted continuum. No doubt the word at the community centers about what happened is heavily biased towards the bad-evil temple versus the heroic-Shin'ichi Yamamoto figure of Ikea somehow guiding the great ship of SGI through the rough seas.

On the other hand, those that practiced prior to the "schism" would be more likely to note that along with the excommunication and the breakdown was the organizational and doctrinal integrity that made SGI/NSA what it was originally. That was forever lost. For some, practice thereafter would entail chanting to a heretical gohonzon / "piece of paper" / monstrosity. Perhaps some revulsion existed as well for some. <sigh> and there were others that never learned more than the chant and didn't know anything had changed at all.

What I'm getting at here is the role that the Gohonzon played in people's lives back "in the day". Ikea never dared to hold himself up above Nichiren or the Gohonzon then, he was a lay-leader and that was it. After the Schism all that fell by the wayside and once the leadership "swept the dirt and dust" under the rug, things continued as if "nothing-ever-happened" and the beloved Sensei began to explore his role as demi-god.

So going "back" to the organization and chanting as if nothing had happened was not an option for many. Further, going "forward" and jumping onto another Nichiren bandwagon simply created many of the same problems. Depending upon your level of committment to the whole cloth of the pre-schism Nichiren Shoshu really influenced things.

(I'm rambling a bit here, sorry). To close my thought - doing shakubuku to introduce new members and family members to the "new-shoshu", knowing how seriously contrived it was, doing gongyo and daimoku to a gohonzon of questionable history, and participating in an organization that had basically sold it's soul, I'm sure ground away on people until many left. They may have returned because the memory retains the positive memories, but once back they would again be confronted with the conflicting elements.

Wakatta

Hey David M, I do feel like this forum has become my community. I know this will be hard; it is already. Letting go of the SGI superstitious-magical-reward/punishment thinking may take a very long time, or who knows. I feel remarkably liberated by all of this, perhaps because I am identifying with so many people here. To think I was going to make a bigger contribution in a few weeks and go to FNCC in the fall. Still, it hurts to realize I won't do these things anymore when I once believed SGI was a small, struggling organization and that Ikeda magnanimously donated FNCC to the members. I have been tracing how there have been many, many steps that have led me to this point. Some began over 20 years ago. Coincidentally, one of my best friends (non-SGI) just asked me if I wanted him to give May contribution again. I did not let on that I now know that the organization never needed his or my money. I quickly changed the subject after saying that's not necessary.

Thank you so much for reminding me how Nichiren fits into the context of Buddhism. I do love the practice and his ideas. I do understand why SGI thinks its militant, our-way-or the wrong way stance is patterned after Nichiren. However, he was extremely well versed in Buddhism. Most SGI members are not.

@doubtful- ---- thanks for your encouragement as far as practicing is concerned. Honestly I don't think that I will chant anymore. At this point and time I am jaded. I understand that the organization has nothing to do with Nichiren Buddhism, however, I am having a hard time separating the two. This may sound quite peculiar but, for the past two weeks I have been contemplating whether to mail my gohonzan (without a return address) back to the community center and feel as if I am ready. However, I can't (and believe that I won't) part with the omimari gohonzan. It's kind of special to me. I suppose it is that way because I had to earn by being in SGI for a couple of years and I got it when I felt as if I was ready. Plus I never know when I will be able to say those 3 little words again. I think the reason as to why I want nothing to do with the big gohonzan (and if you say you are obsessed with reading these posts) then you know what happened to me on the day that I got my gohonzan) Is because I wasn't ready and it was forced upon me in some ways. Plus right now it's very big and foreboding. On one last note. I chuckled to myself when you said that you enjoyed linking arms together and singing songs like "Forever Sensei". I too used to partake in this activity at the "Big Meetings", but I always felt embarassed as if someone one of my friends or family members would walk in on me and say, "That behaivor is so cultish". Plus it is kind of corny and in a way it is cultish. It reminds of a time when we were watching a monthly video at the cultural center and these youth started singing to Ikeda and actually bowed down to him. It creeped me out. But anyways that's my 2 cents for now. Welcome to the thread and may the mystic law be with you whether you decide to leave or stay within the organization.

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doubtful
I am still a district leader, and I probably shall remain so, but I will not do anything to encourage a frenzied skakubuku campaign for the sake of Rock the Era. In fact, I am afraid of what that event will look like when it finally arrives. First of all, it will be empty (here at least). Second, I can just see leaders suddenly encouraging EVERYONE to attend, with guests--all to listen to what? Silly performances and vows to follow President Ikeda. Enough with all of this already! Why all the desperation? Buddhism's illumination of fundamental darkness, enlightenment--the end of delusion take time. These things will not happen on July 10, thankfully.

I GUESS I WANT SEE YOU THERE THEN. for us its someone away from the actual venue. but you are right at the last minute everyone will be invited to fill up the seats for the World Trib picture. dont you know

Its really interesting to read things from that perspective Wakatta, its not a thought process that I was ever exposed to during the last 4 years. I once did bring up the whole 'temple' issue, I didn't really know anything about it to be honest but I had heard of it, so a member gave me the 'Truth About The Fuji School' book. I noticed it was written by SGI so I didn't bother to read it, I guess even then in some way I knew I couldn't trust SGI, but I couldn't admit that to myself :-/ .
After all the discussion on the forum recently I was thinking about SGI a lot today. Some random thoughts occured.


What is SGI?
Is it a religious organisation? Well, kind of, its the lay organisation of... no temple or priesthood. Does it conform to a recognisable set of religious standards or 'rules'. For a start, no one knows, no one really knows anything about the upper levels of SGI and SG leadership. Regardess of that however, SGI apparently follows the tenets of Nichiren buddhism, the only 'canon' of Nicheren Buddhism is the collection of treatise he wrote to the govornment and the personal letters he wrote to his followers. So what are the definite aspects that SGI has to 'live up to' to be considered as following Nichiren buddhism?
Not very much, believe in and honour Nichiren, believe in and honour the Gohonzon, believe in and honour Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. Thats not very difficult or worthwile without the 'deeper' understanding and practice of Nichiren buddhism. Just about everything else in Nichiren's writings are open to interpretation and debate. So SGI can move this way and that without having to maintain a single moral or ethical code. Maybe thats a good thing, many of the 'Big' religions have very strict codes of conduct and rules. But does SGI have too little?
(As a side note, the only other thing SGI would definitely have to do to be considered Nichiren buddhist is spreading the law, i.e Shakabuku, but I don't have time to go into the confusion and interpretation possible regarding this.)

So what else is SGI? A humanitarian organisation according the the SGI website. I think Rothaus summed up the discussion about that quite well "no remarkable contributions to ease human suffering, no SGI relief organisation, not once speaking up against human rights violations and not once taking a stand on current affairs that could be interpreted as taking sides." SGI says it is an organisation devoted to 'peace, culture and education', leaving the complicated and abstract arguments regarding the first two points aside, SGI is very active in education. Soka University of America has an official asset vale of over 900 million dollars.
Taking into account the funds spent on planning, building, consultancy and related expenses, a conservative estimate for the total cost of fully creating the University would be in the 1.1 to 1.2 billion dollars range. The fact that the University has a student roster in the hundreds, assuming that they are all paying the full level of tuition fees, this would not cover a fraction of the running costs and ongoing expenses of the University, so it must be being bolstered by contributions from SGI members.
Now there is nothing essentially wrong with any of that, but as an orginasation which promotes 'education' as one of its primary goals we might question how well it is doing. For the sum of 1.2 billion dollars how many small schools could SGI run in deprived areas of the country where young people struggle for quality education. How many young people could SGI help to get out of the cycle of poverty and crime with that 1.2 billion. Instead SGI chooses to buy a massive plot of land, with magnificent, opulent buildings, miles away from any populated area. All this to teach a few hundred students who will already have the education to get into any other University of reasonable quality, and who must be reasonably wealthy to be able to afford its tuition fees. If education is one of SGI's primary goals in society, it surely deserves an 'F-' for its efforts so far.
(As a side note, I have no idea what Soka University of Japan is valued at, but take a look at its website and the size of its campus on google maps.)
So with no relief organisation, no charity involvement with deprived and struggling people and no major contributions to 'peace' since it was created, can SGI reasonably be called a humanitarian organisation?

So what is SGI? Its hard to make a definitive description. But SGI does seem to want to have its cake and eat it, you bought it the cake, and it doesn't even offer you a bite.

(P.S. The above liberaly presumes that SGI is not a cult and does not deliberatly mislead, deceive or cause unnecessary pressure and stress to its members.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2010 03:38AM by DavidM.

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wakatta1
For members who joined NSA/SGI after the "schism" / Break away from the temple and move to "alternative" gohonzons I'm sure SGI/NSA is just one uninterrupted continuum.

On the other hand, those that practiced prior to the "schism" would be more likely to note that along with the excommunication and the breakdown was the organizational and doctrinal integrity that made SGI/NSA what it was originally. That was forever lost.

What I'm getting at here is the role that the Gohonzon played in people's lives back "in the day". Ikea never dared to hold himself up above Nichiren or the Gohonzon then, he was a lay-leader and that was it. After the Schism all that fell by the wayside and once the leadership "swept the dirt and dust" under the rug, things continued as if "nothing-ever-happened" and the beloved Sensei began to explore his role as demi-god.

Wakatta

Wakatta, you hit the nail on the head: SGI began to change radically after the split. I began practicing in the 1980's, before the Nichiren Shoshu/SGI split, and what you say rings very true for me.

It wasn't about the priests themselves; they rarely made it to our area. In ten years, maybe I saw a priest twice, and not even to speak to. He was just a remote figure in a gray robe giving people Gohonzons at a Gojukai ceremony.

It was more the focus, the emphasis that changed for those of us who were not close to a temple. Before the split, we were much more focused on Nichiren, the Gosho, the Gohonzon, and Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. After the split, the focus started to change to Ikeda, Ikeda, and Ikeda.

While SGI did have its faults before the split, at least it felt like a legitimate religion with history, doctrines, tradition. After? New Gohonzons, new format for Gongyo, new silent prayers, new Master-Disciple doctrine...yes, it felt like "let's make up our own religion."

The priests served as a check and balance on Ikeda and Toda. Ikeda, for example, couldn't put the bas-relief of himself up at Taiseki-ji because the High Priest refused to allow it. The priests also objected at one point when Ikeda wanted to change the silent prayers. I think that Ikeda bided his time, waiting until SGI was wealthy and powerful enough to go off on its own -- and then initiating the break. He wasn't having some priest tell him what he could and couldn't do!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2010 06:38AM by tsukimoto.

@DavidM

Very well thought out, thanks for the post and pulling together those various points logically. I think the "awakening" process for those that have fallen asleep in SGI comes about in just such a way. At first you hear or see troubling things. As time goes on you start putting two and two together. You ask questions and get "guidance" that says "two plus two equal 77" and you go back and try to understand that! Eventually the facade cracks and then you really see what is going on. As you said, for an organization so dedicated to peace and humanity, where is the actual proof that is its goal? I see very little evidence of that. Lots of mass marketing to bring in more "marks" and tactics to extract dollars from the membership, but very little else.

Of course you might consider that by erecting buildings like the sho-hondo or soka university (or others) as being evidence of their dedication to humanity, but then, it is hard to deny that these grand edifices are more for show than for go... Designed to make a statement about "Sensei" than about the membership. Sadly, the bread and butter of the faithful lay organization is what ultimately built them, and there is nary a dedication plaque to them! Two hundred years from now will they still be standing? Dunno, but if the law of cause and effect truly functions then I'd expect that the last members will see them crumble - especially when Ikea passes on to his rewards and the next group of "Shin'ichi Yamamoto's" start dividing up the the most recent "Toda's" estate. Will there be a split up of the organization into lots of little SGI's headed up by Ikea's understudies, each pointing at the other's group's heresy? Sounds logical to me. Maybe we will see color-coded gohonzons. Purple for SGA-2, Orange for SGI-5, Chartreuse for the "honto hon-mono" original core group.

In a gosho nichiren refers to the "parasite in the lion's bowels". The SGI has always pointed at the mean and nasty folks in the outside world, Nichiren Shu, Nichiren-XXX, or those mean and nasty taitan members, but couldn't that parasite also be certain empowered leaders who have lost sight of the practice? Worth thinking about.

In another buddhist text a priest declares he is going to paradise and hangs himself. Unfortunately the branch on the tree breaks off and "breaks his head in ten different directions" because of his lack of humility. Anybody see those behaviors?

Last thought, if you have an organization that consists of 85% sincere people but who are manipulated, moved and driven by 14% insincere leaders and 1% opportunists and confidence men, when that organization is judged, will it be by the 80% sincere people's inner motives or by their actual actions inspired by those 20% people's motives?

That is one good reason not to yield up your own free will to such an organization, but to think for yourself and make decisions based on who you are and not who the "group think" tells you to be.

Wakatta