When I joined, back in the mid-70's, everyone was young. I got "shakabuked" while at college, and when I went to meetings, they were full of young people.

The last meetings I went to were full of old people. Almost everyone at Cousin Rufus Gongyo had grey hair! SGI knows if that doesn't change they're dead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2010 05:25AM by quiet one.

evergreen,
I too understand your anger. If you look a few pages back, I had a "friend" call me out of the blue for my daughter to attend a pre-rock the era gathering to perform in a fan dance. It was truely annoying. Fortunately, she only left one message and I guess my silence on the matter spoke for itself.

All they really care about is numbers. For instance, my daughter performed a few years back in a fan dance with the ESD. She rehearsed for two months every weekend. Then the day of the performance, all kinds of parents were throwing their two, three and four year olds up there on stage to dance and "make a cause". I was so upset, because it diminished all the work my daughter put in to it and the leaders in charge didn't put a stop to it, they turned a blind eye. It was crazy; toddlers on stage! The little ones had no idea what they were doing, they were "cute" and it certainly filled up the stage leading one to believe that the ESD were of large, healthy numbers. That was the last performance for my daughter, and she was happy about that.

I agree with Rothaus, they keep badgering you, be blunt and to the point, whatever verbage works for you.

PS I haven't been around for over a year, and a group chief left me a message asking me to center a meeting! lol

Reading the posts on this site is becoming an obsession for me. I have been an SGI member for over 20 years, a district leader for about 6. I have always had reservations about many things in the organization, including Master-Disciple which later became Mentor-Disciple. I joined because I was searching for a dynamic spiritual experience among progressive people( I was openly gay), but I wanted it rooted in some tradition. Scientology or any new age thing was not appealing AT ALL. A co-worker thought Nichiren Buddhism could help me sort out some of my demons. It did. I became very involved in brass band, gymnastics, shakubuku campaigns, tosos, discussion meetings etc. My non-SGI friends said I was indeed happier than I had been before. although I was constantly trying to bring in new recruits. I did make some genuine friends in SGI(NSA back then). In fact, I cherish those early years despite the cult-like craziness which I demonstrated. But two things never sat right with me: 1)members were constantly encouraged to chant to get stuff or become something 2)most SGI members and the publications knew nothing about Buddhism outside of SGI's version of Nichiren. In my own study I would learn about apparently significant Buddhist concepts that would rarely appear in the pubs. However, the Eightfold Path and the Four Noble Truths did eventually appear in Living Buddhism and I then felt SGI was in fact improving. I made it my mission to lead discussions incorporating these concepts and others in my district. This went well, although some hardcore members felt I was too scholarly. So everything was fine then a few years ago this whole Ikeda worship with those awful videos went into overdrive. I had always thought his "poetry" did not deserve that label, but I could ignore that. What I could not ignore was the constant emphasis on the Mentor-Disciple. Has it occurred to anyone of these believers in it that the vast majority of successful people in the world never heard of this practice--that you don't practice Buddhism to make your dreams come true! You practice Buddhism to overcome the 4/8 sufferings, to improve your perceptions, and to illuminate your fundamental darkness--not to get stuff like money, raises, partners, jobs, auditions, etc. I also identify with a lot, too many of the issues raised against SGI in this forum. However, I don't have the guts to leave, yet at least. Furthermore, I like singing "Forever Sensei," whenever I am at a big meeting at the center(which is very, very rare) simply because I like the tune and the energy of everyone coming together to sing it arm in arm. Truthfully, this forum may initiate my departure from the organization but not the practice. Nothing beats it. I simply don't care about ment-disc despite the number of times I have gotten guidance on it. I also simply do not believe Ikeda or SGI do ANYTHING to make the world a more peaceful place. Receiving honorary doctorates, putting up pictures, poetry, and exhibits don't change anything. There's so much more I can write and all with a heavy heart.

Time and time again guests come to meetings and never return. Some of mine have told me plainly that SGI is too worldly and too materialistic. I have taken this to heart over the years and I have raised this concern with others, leaders included. Often, even hardcore members have no new "experiences" to share at the discussion meetings, probably because a Buddhist practice is not supposed to produce a bunch of material gain. So these well-intentioned members/leaders don't think it's spectacular enough to talk about overcoming delusion, improving perceptions, illuminating fundamental darkness, or overcoming the 4-8 Sufferings.

Quote
doubtful
Time and time again guests come to meetings and never return. Some of mine have told me plainly that SGI is too worldly and too materialistic. I have taken this to heart over the years and I have raised this concern with others, leaders included. Often, even hardcore members have no new "experiences" to share at the discussion meetings, probably because a Buddhist practice is not supposed to produce a bunch of material gain. So these well-intentioned members/leaders don't think it's spectacular enough to talk about overcoming delusion, improving perceptions, illuminating fundamental darkness, or overcoming the 4-8 Sufferings.

Hi, doubtful. It seems that many leaders think that more people will be interested and join if they are tempted with the possibility of material gain. And then some of them who do join re-write their experiences to prove that they did indeed get materials "benefits". I have been to meetings where "pioneer" members actually aggressively asked a guest, "Do you want money? Then join!"

I can relate to everything that you said in your first post. It seems that many members like chanting and can go along with SGI's strange ways, but have a real problem with the mentor/disciple issue.

Rock the Era. What the hell does that even mean?

Per my youth division it is an "ENTRUSTMENT CEROMONY". this is the last time these youth will stand up or beside or whatever with thier mentor while he is living. Well you know he is 82 yrs old. he will die soon.
Its the old Toda and March 16 without the rain

Too little to late if you ask me. I enjoyed the George M Williams days-- Mr. Sadanaga

you too Cousin Rufus....... as a young 10 yr old on Tozon thats what I thought Kosen Rufu was Cousin Rufus. OH MY GREAT MNDS THINK ALIKE

I HEAR YOU LOUND AND CLEAR.

I just got a call from a member who wanted to know what is wrong with SGI – (we talk on a weekly basis- I enjoy that some of us in SGI are very sane and very well aware) of what is wrong with SGI -- why we have to be disciples to Ikeda and not Nichiren Daishonin. And what really did happen to George M Williams?
If we are slated to have 8000 youth at Rock the Era and we could not fill it up EVEN if Men, Women came brought ever cat, dog , Bird, etc We could not do fill it up. This is something you build up too. You take years to do this. Hell if this was 1983 San Diego Convention Maybe we could fill the stadiums of youth because we already had them. But you want to take something we have little of and create this momentum of 1000's of young people joining in droves to satisfy one man. To satisfy one man- To satisfy one man- ( i wrote 3 times to get my point across) So we are now being told to do street Geshu , 24 hour tozo and run around with wild abandonment as if the world is coming to and end.
Somehow the impossible will occur on all 3 dates in 3 parts of the United States because we chant. If that’s the case let’s stop the oil spill in the gulf, lets dry the floods in Nashville, let’s stop the volcano in Iceland, Let’s get rid of the New World Order , the Bankers, Let’s bring our troop home from a phony war backed by the BANKERS..—that’s my rant for today

on a seperate note-----
She had mention before that the new guidance book out that is paperback and yellow is not written by Daisaku Ikeda. I don’t rightly know because I have not bought it.
However yesterday at the Sophia group meeting one of the WD read from this book. I realize I have never heard guidance like that before. What I mean Pres Ikeda does not write like that or speak like that. IT was more AMERICAN thought process if you get my drift. It was for May 16th. Has anyone else gotten the impression that he has Ghost’s writers?

The 2nd or 3rd installment of Letters to the Brothers - Pres Ikeda referred to himself in the 3rd person. How odd, if you are writing the piece you would praise only your efforts as if you were not putting pen to paper. These are crazy times in this world.

Hi Doubtful

I think that most of us can relate to what you said. Don't fell under pressure that you must leave SGI , but do realise that the SGI and Nichichiren Buddhism are not necessarily the same either. Your practise as a Nichiren Buddhist can continue without being a member of SGI. In my case it was also a decision of conscience as I could no longer support such a cult. And a cult is what has become of SGI today even more obvious than before. Just have a look at “Blue Lady” with 45 years of membership.
What I say now is my very own opinion and I know its easy for me to say that after five years of having left, but going along, not speaking up is just the same as doing the things we complain about here.
But by all means take your time, as remaining in SGI and having the guts to speak out is just as hard as leaving. At least you have found a place here to write down what bothers you and that can be quite therapeutic too!!