lily rose Wrote:
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> SouthGate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > I see a little flame that was imparted to all
> of
> > us that hasn't been snuffed out no matter what.
>
>
> I don't see that at all. You come across as an
> apologist for JRS and the Walk. Any flame that was
> imparted by the false and destructive ministry of
> John Robert Stevens I have earnestly tried to
> snuff out for decades.


I'm not trying to apologize for anyone. I'm just voicing my opinion. I don't think John was as bad as people are portraying him to be, but Was he perfect? No, but he would say the same thing about himself. God knows I'm not perfect.

On a side note. I asked my wife about the mine. She doesn't remember everything about it except to say people got ripped off. She said her dad and Brother Wilson said they didn't have witness on the mine and didn't think it was good idea. Brought it up in the elders and deacons meeting but nobody wanted to listen including John.

SouthGate, I feel you are entitled to your opinion, even if your opinion extends to a certain tenderness towards Stevens that others do not subscribe to. Many of us turn up here because we have negative views about him and the Walk, but I have observed great variation here as to whether he was a man of God, how bad he became, and where and when he went wrong. No two posters seem to agree, so your conclusion does not seem all that outrageous to me. You shared your view honestly and fairly, and I support you in that, but I am a little surprised and curious about reading This Weeks. Why do you read them? I wish I could get my hands on some, but it would be for the sake of nostalgia and to gain unfiltered data straight out of the 70s as a check and balance for my memories and opinions. I suspect after a couple of pages the nostalgia factor would be fulfilled, however, and the impulse to run screaming in the other direction would be strong. Yet you get more out of them now, 40 years later? Like what? Is it possible you still believe all that stuff, after all that happened (and all that did not happen)? Again, no judgment either way from me, just very curious.

SouthGate wrote: “She said her dad and Brother Wilson said they didn't have witness on the mine and didn't think it was good idea. Brought it up in the elders and deacons meeting but nobody wanted to listen including John.”

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Wow, how lenient and lax. In Salt Lake City, cautionary voicing was taboo. It was understood by the submissive that God was endorsing the lead shepherd in all things. Unauthorized speaking and opinions were signs of direct rebellion, needing swift action to stay the plague from contaminating the rest of the church.

Was her dad and Brother Wilson shunned afterwards?


PS – I’m so grateful to have escaped that ‘cult hell hole.’

One thing I came to conclude in participating in reading the thoughts of other's and in expressing my own thoughts is - that - each of us became involved in the church for many different reasons of which some of the reasons expressed was, they liked having friends, some expressed they were looking for a father figure, some liked certain freedoms, some wanted to be recognized as having value. Some expressed they wanted a closer relationship with God - while others said they were not caught up in the teachings or binding relationships and just liked having friends and being a part of the fellowship.

During the years while active in the church, some were deeply involved, others less personally involved. People from all walks of life and at many different ages, young to older - in many locations made up - what was TLW.

Some stayed for many years while others for less years. And there were many different reasons given for remaining as long as one remained or for one being absent as a member of TLW.

Except for those born into the church - I thought to myself, If each person had not become involved in TLW , each person would have gravitated to people and environments while living their lives -gravitated to what fit the desires of their own hearts and minds and their own needs and wants.

Apart from those born into the church - I came to conclude that if one was not a member of TLW - each person would have made choices for themselves in life and would have experienced the joys and sufferings that are common to man - while living and growing up in life - somewhere in society.

And there also have been those who expressed while being born into the church or their parents coming into the church while they were very young -while growing up in the church - some expressed coming to have for themselves their own thinking, which was not necessarily the thinking of their parents or the church leadership.

I also have concluded for myself there is no such thing as - If I could have, If I would have, or I should have, unless it is before me. Those things behind me, I can not change.

I can only hope and pray that I do right myself and do no harm to other's in living my life today.

Another thing I came to conclude for myself, is each person's relationship with God is sacred.

Really good to hear from you Invisible. I appreciate the conclusions in your post. Previously I discussed a restored relationship with one of my siblings. We talked yesterday about regrets we had in the way we treated our parents but I think the conversation was helpful as kind of a confession or catharsis. I think the same can occur when posters share their regrets about the LW. It seems as though even though there is often no such thing as a do over, the desire for a second chance is often with us...hundred of books, memoirs, movies about this yearning. It's never to late to pursue new friends, new relationships or even a dream.

I would like everyone to know, I was making no criticism - of anyone communicating their thoughts on the forum - in expressing my thought in what I posted.

Thank you Lily Rose for sharing.

Good to hear from you Invisible.

“Another thing I came to conclude for myself, is each person's relationship with God is sacred.”

Your concluding statement would fit nicely somewhere in Ecclesiastes. And each New Testament book would do well to end with it also!

Invisible Wrote:
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> I would like everyone to know, I was making no
> criticism - of anyone communicating their thoughts
> on the forum - in expressing my thought in what I
> posted.

We err on the side of free speech in this forum. God forbid we be as thin-skinned as our new president.
Nice to hear from you, Invisible.

It is great to hear from you Invisible. Very insightful posts.

Lily rose,
I was not personally at the “marriage ceremony” in LA when Marilyn took the reins and was looking for ministries who would support her. The meeting may have been in the Shepherd’s or Reference Library, but I’m not certain – it’s been a lot of years ago. Perhaps someone who was actually in the meeting could share further details. If I recall correctly, it was on Super Bowl Sunday, which in itself was a test of loyalty to her. I did hear from my local shepherd on numerous occasions, the desire to be married to Marilyn – which honestly just seemed inappropriate to me. I accepted that she was to have the final say as the Lamp, but I was not personally wanting to be married to her. However, what I did observe over the years, both in myself and others, was the destructive effect that being committed to her above all others had on marriage relationships.

Several mentioned the violation child labor laws and I also wanted to also bring up those who worked for less than minimum wage in “kingdom business”. Although most of those businesses never survived in spite of the flowery prophesies of wealth and the destruction of Babylon, some that did were on the backs of exploited labor and those resources eventually found their way to a select few. There are reasons for minimum wage laws, and ignoring them to “bring forth the kingdom” did not come from godly thinking. As a teenager, I was fascinated by John’s insight into the mine venture, kingdom businesses etc., but later on, as a business owner myself, it did not seem to me that John was really that bright. What happened to all of those ventures under his management speaks for itself. One of the judgements mentioned in Malachi that tends to be ignored is how God will deal with those who oppress the wage earner in his wages. I’ve come to appreciate later in life that if God is really directing a situation, it never falls. God is not a man that He should lie. The Old Testament test of a true prophesy was to see if it came to pass. You got one miss and then they rocked you to sleep. The desolation of the mine venture paints a picture of how it never was a word from God – kill, steal, and destroy is what comes to my mind – and that’s not God.