Lily Rose, perhaps I'm misreading what your tone to me here, but I'm only replying for clarification. I wrote sincerely and bared my heart and it cracked you up. That was off putting since he isn't the only one who has made comments about Satan in this forum. Yes, I missed his sarcasm, but I don't him tgat well.

And I was unaware that people weren't interested in moving on. A friend led me to this forum with the intent of me knowing how many over the years were theown out with the garbage. I truly brlueved people were seeking healing to move on. Knowing now it's really not that but a group to save others is different than what I was looking for. Thanking me for my input seemed the opposite of what was meant, like "bless your heart" in the South has a different meaning. So, since my input is irrelevant to this forum, I will not cobtribute.

It's okay, truly. Since I left TLW in 2003, I have not been a joiner and I no longer teveal my heart to people to use against me for their own agenda. That makes me happy. I felt safe here to share my thoughts with TLW expatriots. I didn't think I would be laughed at and dismissed here, too. So my time has come to an end.

I greatly appreciate all the stories and insights y'all have shared here. Thank you for your vulnerability. PAX

Always, Paula Browning (formerly Spencer)

lily rose Wrote:
"Your post cracked me up because I have misinterpreted changed too. I know I can't speak for him but I think he was using sarcasm to express his disdain for the LW. ...I think that is what many on the forum are doing here through their participation, and moving on may not be an immediate goal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts."

Mea culpa Sarge. Wasn't poking fun at your thoughts but that you seemed to have misinterpreted or took his sarcasm seriously which I have many times done (misinterpreted or took what he said seriously when he meant it for sarcasm.) That's what cracked me up... to me it was like, oh goody, someone else doesn't get him. I don't think your input has ever been irrelevant to this forum and I think some people on the forum are seeking healing for themselves and not as you said, to save others. Sarcasm sucks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2017 11:23AM by lily rose.

I had many typos in my recent post and missed the window to edit. Small phone screen, fat fingers, and hasty pisting. Mea culpa

TheSarge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had many typos in my recent post and missed the
> window to edit. Small phone screen, fat fingers,
> and hasty pisting. Mea culpa

Sorry Sarge. Do consider staying. Your input is valuable--since you weathered as much in TLWF as anyone here. I hope you just take a breather, and get back involved, expressing your perspective.

Sarge:
"I wrote sincerely and bared my heart and it cracked you up. That was off putting since he isn't the only one who has made comments about Satan in this forum. Yes, I missed his sarcasm, but I don't him that well."
You go about things in a very serious, thoughtful way. I respect that, even if my tendency is not to express it as often as I should. The Walk/TLWF scarred us in many different ways, and the fact that we have been able to carry on a semi-civil discussion for as long a we have, I think is noteworthy.
Again, I hope you get back involved...on your own timeline, of course.

Just received this. Hope it helps.


“I know you believe you understand what you think I said. I’m not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant.”– Robert McCloskey

It has happened to all of us. We say something, and it is misconstrued and, suddenly, the person hearing it becomes incensed. They respond without thinking about it, and you are left with drama or hurt feelings. It happens at work, school, home, and on social media. The issue isn’t an issue until someone responds; that’s what fuels the fire and stirs it up until everything is so intensified that no one knows who they are angry at, why they were angry, or why it even mattered in the first place. When I counsel in my office, most of the session is spent clarifying what was said and what was heard. It is often a tedious process, but you cannot understand why you are upset if you no longer know who said what and, more importantly, if they meant what you heard.

The Kingdom Mine was in fact located in the desert NE of Las Vegas in the Meadow Valley Wash. Between Carp and Elgin along the west side of the Union Pacific line you can still see evidence of the settlement. The land was rented from a family that lived in Overton by the name of Breedlove.
The last I visited, and I have been back twice in the years since 73, it had been sold to another family.
Lily, I know you believe there was no "mine" and that may well be true in the fact that no ore of any kind was extracted to the best of my knowledge. I stated clearly in my first posts that I was just a kid and knew nothing of the scam or fraud being perpetrated upon others. I stated clearly that there is gold in the Nevada sand and a quick Google search will reveal that Nevada is the number one producer of gold. I never stated that we actualy successful "mined" any gold or that it wasn't a scam. I also stated that my family was ripped off and left to fend for ourselves in the midle of the desert. At least that's my take.
If you doubt the physical existence of a place refered to by the con artists as The Kingdom Mine, then I will take you there.

I am happy to plan a tour of the old Kingdom Mine location if anyone would like to meet in Moapa. I was baptized in the Muddy River in Moapa. Moapa is also where the paved road ends and the adventure begins.

This is still some of the prettiest country I have seen. I recall seeing snow blanket the dessert sand and then in the spring watch it bloom with bright vivid colors and then be 120 degrees in the shade all summer.
There were old cowboys that would come and round up any wild horses they could catch, reportedly selling them to glue and dog food factorys.
Anyhow, I digress.
Lily, there is no fake news here. I can name name, dates and locations for everything I have alleged and as I stated, if that doesn't satisfy your need for facts then I will be glad to prove them, assuming you have that much interest. I suspect from the fact that there is still so much anger and animosity regarding this subject that there are likely Manny folks whom would finally like to see some physical evidence of where they were TOLD their money would be used.

[www.trainweb.org]

Check out the link above and have a look on Google Earth between Carp and Elgin along the west side of the tracks. Maybe you too can spot the old cult compound remnants.

Finally, I would add for anyone that wishes to question the information stated by others on this forum; please consider that fact that some of us have used our real names. My name is real and if your half good with the internet you can find me still living in the DC area.
Again Lily, no fake news here.

LampShmamp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SouthGate, I feel you are entitled to your
> opinion, even if your opinion extends to a certain
> tenderness towards Stevens that others do not
> subscribe to. Many of us turn up here because we
> have negative views about him and the Walk, but I
> have observed great variation here as to whether
> he was a man of God, how bad he became, and where
> and when he went wrong. No two posters seem to
> agree, so your conclusion does not seem all that
> outrageous to me. You shared your view honestly
> and fairly, and I support you in that, but I am a
> little surprised and curious about reading This
> Weeks. Why do you read them? I wish I could get
> my hands on some, but it would be for the sake of
> nostalgia and to gain unfiltered data straight out
> of the 70s as a check and balance for my memories
> and opinions. I suspect after a couple of pages
> the nostalgia factor would be fulfilled, however,
> and the impulse to run screaming in the other
> direction would be strong. Yet you get more out
> of them now, 40 years later? Like what? Is it
> possible you still believe all that stuff, after
> all that happened (and all that did not happen)?
> Again, no judgment either way from me, just very
> curious.


Hey Lamp, no offense taken. I would say that I get more out of them now, because I didn't usually take the time to read them when they came out. LOL! My wife always did read them and she still reads and believes most of what's written. I myself enjoyed the worship more than anything. I bought the last two music CD's that just has music of both old and new songs with no singing. I love listening to those more than any that have come out in awhile. I play those when I'm working from home and they help me concentrate. So I though I would try listen to them while reading the this weeks. I don't know about anyone else that has them, but it helps me to concentrate more when I read them.

Again, I'm not trying to talk anyone out of or into anything. As far as what did or didn't happen can be said about the bible depending on when things happened and by one's perspective. In my human way of thinking, which is wacked at times, Jesus said some very offensive things.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SouthGate wrote: “She said her dad and Brother
> Wilson said they didn't have witness on the mine
> and didn't think it was good idea. Brought it up
> in the elders and deacons meeting but nobody
> wanted to listen including John.”
>
> -------------
>
> Wow, how lenient and lax. In Salt Lake City,
> cautionary voicing was taboo. It was understood
> by the submissive that God was endorsing the lead
> shepherd in all things. Unauthorized speaking and
> opinions were signs of direct rebellion, needing
> swift action to stay the plague from contaminating
> the rest of the church.
>
> Was her dad and Brother Wilson shunned
> afterwards?
>
>
> PS – I’m so grateful to have escaped that
> ‘cult hell hole.’


No they weren't shunned, but that was back a ways. Her dad died in the early 70's so things were a little different then. ;)

TheJewel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TheJewel Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Try this one:
> > >
> >
> [www.reflectionsfromthewall.net]
>
> >
> > > 6/8/24680235/jrs_the_walk.doc
> > >
> > > It just worked for me.
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Jewel.
> > Here is an excerpt (pg 34-35) regarding the
> mine
> > debacle. Is this account accurate? Partially
> > accurate? Completely bogus?? Certainly some
> people
> > in this forum have first-hand knowledge. I came
> > into the walk shortly after this went down.
> >
> > "Holder, however, did not settle down into a
> > normal Christian life at Grace Chapel. Until
> 1971,
> > he was still wheeling and dealing all over
> North
> > America, constantly getting in touch with
> Stevens
> > to get permission to enter into another
> > enterprise. It is not clear how many of these
> > enterprises were funded by members of the Walk,
> > but one thing is clear: by 1973, over one
> million
> > dollars had been funneled to Holder and
> > disappeared without any profit or material
> return.
> > How could this be?
> > In 1971, John Robert Stevens' son-in-law was
> > admitted into the practice of law. The same
> year
> > Holder, Stevens, Steven's daughter, and Richard
> > Helphand (Stevens' son-in-law) formed Western
> Ore
> > Reduction Corporation in Carson City, Nevada.
> > Holder was the president; Helphand was the
> > vice-president; Helphand's wife (Stevens'
> > daughter) was the treasurer; and Stevens
> (keeping
> > his usual low profile) was on the board of
> > directors. From this moment on the burden of
> the
> > mine was shifted from being mainly borne by
> Holder
> > to everyone in the Walk. It takes no genius to
> > make the connection between this burden and the
> > fact that Stevens and his family had a lot to
> > profit by the union of free enterprise with
> church
> > financial support. All that was needed to gain
> the
> > support of the congregation was the right bait.
> > John Robert wasted no time in baiting his hook.
> >
> > The Hook
> > The hook (or bait) needed was given in a series
> of
> > prophecies and ministries as well as two or
> three
> > slickly presented pamphlets issued by Western
> Ore.
> > According to, "To Take the Kingdom," concurrent
> > with Holder's 1953 vision, prophecies were
> being
> > made in Grace Chapel that indicated that God
> was
> > going "to bring great wealth to His people so
> that
> > the Apostolic Company could carry the gospel of
> > the Kingdom to the 'ends of the earth.'[. "To
> Take
> > the Kingdom" (Sepulveda, CA: Western Ore
> Reduction
> > Corporation, no date), p. 9.] This piece of
> > propaganda gives a history of world economics,
> > placing Holder's mine within a
> salvation-history
> > framework. Thus, the members could plainly see
> > that the "Kingdom Mine" was part of God's
> divine
> > plan for the End Time:
> > Kingdom Mine is located about 75 miles
> northeast
> > of Los Vegas, just off Salt Lake Highway. In
> > addition to being one of the richest gold
> deposits
> > in the world, it has some of the world's best
> > farming soil . . . . .Before long, Kingdom Mine
> > will be Kingdom City. It will have all the
> > facilities to be completely self-sufficient . .
> .
> > . If we are to avoid the "mark of the beast"
> and
> > still survive to do God's will we must be
> > completely self-sufficient.
> > However, even more than just a means of
> financial
> > support, this mine is intended in the perfect
> will
> > of the Lord, to be instrumental in bringing the
> > downfall of Satan's control over the monetary
> > systems of the world. This will be the first
> time
> > since the Garden of Eden that key resources
> have
> > been part of the Kingdom . . . .Yet with all
> this,
> > there is still the confirmed word of the Lord
> that
> > the Kingdom Mine is in His perfect will; that
> He
> > has spoken and ordained that it should come
> forth
> > now. This seemed to be a stalemate until the
> Lord
> > began to reveal that He would do it through His
> > own people . . . .
> > What it boils down to is this: the Kingdom Mine
> is
> > just like any other ministry: its lifeblood
> > depends completely upon the sustained faith,
> > prayers and support of the entire Body. Just as
> > with the printing ministry, the tapes, the
> video
> > ministry, the buildings, the camps, the
> Apostolic
> > Company, or whatever, it is the continued
> > sacrifice of the saints that brings it forth.
> What
> > is needed right now, in addition to constant
> > intercession, is the money and equipment to put
> > the pilot plant into operation."
>
>
> Sorry for the delayed reply. I did two tours as a
> participant in TLW the first from 1969 to 1973,
> the second from 1976 to 1980. As a result I missed
> the mine adventure and was gone by the time the
> Gary and Marylin show started. However, from what
> I do know (or heard during my second stint) that
> account appears reasonable. I was friends with the
> Halla's (I think that is right) in the early 70's
> (went to meetings at their home in Bay Park) and I
> know that they lost a boat load of money in that
> thing becoming very bitter as a result.
>
> I was at Coniah mostly so most of my perspective
> comes from that. R. D. Cronquist was quite a
> space case, IMO. I never got to know JRS.


I never knew R.D. Cronquist except to see him sometimes at South Gate. He would put his chair right next to the pulpit on the platform and sit right in front of all the others on the platform. That always seemed strange to me.