kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In retrospect, it is amazing just how many actions
> were taken ‘in the name of God’ that were not only
> devoid of LOVE, but were downright harmful. It
> seems that on almost every level, doctrine would
> always take priority.
>
> Although never having the pleasure, the ‘probe’
> was just one of many thoroughly unjustified
> invasions of privacy that attempted to manufacture
> ‘oneness’ by artificially enforcing agreement.
> Living with tunnel vision caused peripheral
> blindness, and with it, the inability to provide
> any point of reference that would indicate that
> the vehicle had veered badly off course.

WOW! The PROBE! I have not thought about that for decades. I think I don't want to think any more about it. Been having lots of other flash backs and dreams...trying to find an appropriate shrink just in case it is too much for me.

If anyone realy wants to listen to jrs tapes for research that can be purchases for $4.95. GeeHa has free PDF's at this link: [livingwordpublications.org]

I am not endorsing them at all. For for well ground who want the "word" from the horses mouth vs heresay and rumor that is the source library.

To be fair, or something: we all come to these forum with our own memories and interpretations of what went on back them that may or may not be 100% accurate from another view point.
JRS can not defend his actions since he has long passed. For certain, something went terribly wrong and walk and "we" made our own choices to stay and participate as long as we did along with our children who had not choice for our adult choices. "we" members have to take responcibility for our own choices to listen to and follow the man. But WHY did we? Do any of us really know the true answer? or do we have common thread or differnt reason?

Maybe the tapes will help us figure it out...but then again, it may very well open a can of worms. Do so at your own risk as I am not suggesting any one do it.
Pease

JezTheBelle Wrote:
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> Let me begin by saying that it will not be
> possible for me to become a part of the community
> that you all have developed here. My anonymity is
> of utmost importance, firstly, as I have family in
> TLWF who have been there more than 40 years. It is
> too late and of no use to try and interfere with
> that now.
>
> Secondly, I have moved on, many years since. There
> is no “healing” left to be had for me, spiritual
> or otherwise. I was forced to come to terms will
> all of this many years ago. I have done the detox
> and I AM done.
>
> Finally, having read through all of this and
> having been a part of FactNet also, I realize that
> our goals are not the same. What you have seems to
> work for you, and I am glad of it. It will not
> work for me, and “that’s okay too.”
>
> It appears that many of you still seek validation
> for our earliest beliefs.
>
> Some are apologetics for JRS, his “vision” for the
> “Kingdom” and his “manifestations” of bringing
> “Christ into the Earth.” Marilyn is where it went
> astray and Gary’s involvement sealed the fate of a
> beautiful and mystical “fruit” gone bad. I don’t
> agree.
>
> Others are looking to forgive mistakes made
> because “the heart was right,” and there’s no way
> to move on and become whole until that is
> accomplished. I don’t agree.
>
> A few have mentioned, repeatedly, that all was
> well until that arrogant and uneducated Third
> Generation took control. I don’t agree.
>
> The rest devolve into debate, with scriptural back
> up, over “Words” that “came down” over us all. The
> right, the wrong, the details and the methods are
> lost as each of you attempt to justify your points
> using exactly the same methods- trigger words and
> biblical “proofs” that were used in THE CULT we
> all came out of for various reasons. I don’t
> agree.
>
> I am here for one purpose and one purpose only.
> When I have accomplished my goal, I will fade
> right back into the woodwork that I came out of,
> resume my life as it stands, and leave this whole
> nightmare in the dust of the past where it
> belongs.
>
> This site, and our host, has a mission: “The Cult
> Education Institute (CEI) is a nonprofit,
> tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization devoted to
> public education and research. CEI's mission is to
> study destructive cults, controversial groups and
> movements and to provide a broad range of
> information and services easily accessible to the
> public for assistance and educational purposes
> online through the Web.”
>
> I intend to support that mission with my
> experiences, my knowledge and the pain of my
> youth, in the hope that no one else will ever be
> “sucked in” to this kind of CULT ever again. I
> intend to support the claims that The Living Word
> Fellowship, aka The Walk, meets the definition of
> Cult, and to “bear witness” alongside too many
> others who have been dismissed out of hand as
> belonging to aberrant “churches,” or were bitter
> or vindictive, or “Nephilim” or “Satanic” or for
> any other reasons than the truth. Heaven forbid
> we should go the way of Waukegan, right? Waukegan
> WAS right.
>
> The claims of “the faithful” that things have
> changed, that reparations have been made, and that
> those responsible for abuses have been “set out”
> or have “blown out” are false. What has changed
> is a PR campaign and a tightening of “oversight”
> to improve the image of what was then and remains
> now, a cult of control; monetary, spiritual,
> physical and emotional.
>
> I have heard you, First Generation. I have heard
> you, Second Generation. Lately, your lament here
> has been about children who were “divided” from
> their parents and how wrong it was for those
> children to refuse to honor “thy father and thy
> mother” when they were “set out.” Those poor
> parents! You debate the means of overcoming that,
> but you ignore the flip side. Where were those
> children educated and who brought them to it?
>
> I was Third Generation and my parents abandoned me
> because it wasn’t “in the Lord” for them to
> continue. My story follows.

Jez the Belle you have probably faded into the wood work. Thank you or your insight. we Old timers a have different perspetive. I was brought into Chrstian Tabernacle in 1957. some of my peers grand parents had been in what I call the mother church decades before the walk. I am a BAby boomerso I'm not one of the oldest of who is still alive.
I think the foundation before the walk is a valuable puzzle piece for those searching for peace. But, I am sorry to say that some may not be ready for the truth when it comes to the question of who is to blame?

I ended up being a Jez because I knew too much. I wish sister Jez the Bell I could just give you a big ole hug.

New Day I am so sorry this post is over 2 years old and i could not have sent you my love for your courage to write this. Yet, my heart goes out to you for your honest insight.
I am about 12 years odler than you, so you probably never knew me,( iowa girl) but maybe you did my sisters...doesn't matter.

I think it is very important for some to hear a different perspective from that of those in the jrs era who now feel they were "slave labor". I am not condemning nor condoning anyone who has a different experience.

Thank you for your input. Big hugs!

Thanks for pulling up JezTheBelle's post, not sure when she wrote it, but it is still very relevant. From my perspective, trying to pinpoint where it went 'astray,' or became a cult is irrelevant. I've believed for almost 30 years that my family escaped The Walk right as it was "getting bad." Only to find out from Woodrow's book that it was pretty damn bad well before '82. The teachings of JRS are a virus. They evolve and infect people even today.

My family left The Walk, but The Walk never left them. I grew up with the voice of JRS in my head through his tapes and books and echoed in the words and teachings of my parents. I even had dreams where I met him and joyously told my parents I was visited by him. This is inception at its finest.

My parents took their degrees from the school of prophets and set out to build a church of the living word in their home, only members being immediate family. I think they thought that if they built a high enough wall they could protect us from the "religious spirit" and "Babylon."

I was taught to believe I am here to bring God's judgement everywhere we go, an inescapable destiny as I was blessed by JRS, the spirit imparted to me. When I visited New Orleans for work and 2 months later Katrina hit, I was told repeatedly not to have a sympathetic spirit towards the devastated people, but to be thankful that I helped loose the judgement on a city of Babylon. No one should be made to bear a burden like that, I see that now.

So my point is this, back in 2005 and even up to 2017, I was still under the influence of a man long dead and his cosmology lived on through me. At the time, I was not even aware of Gary and Marilyn and that the Walk also continued its march forward in an official capacity. JRS started a cycle of spiritual abuse built on a dogmatic power structure cloaked in christianity and when exactly it went off the rails is not as important as when we stopped it within ourselves.

changedagain Wrote:
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> You know that if Gary & Marilyn were not busy
> administering the Kingdom, they would be right out
> there with you: cutting the rose bushes, weeding
> in the lagoon, scrubbing the toilets with a tooth
> brush etc.
> You sound like a whiner, who can't handle a little
> discipline.
> Grow up!


I seem to be late, but I want to jump in.

Since I am an Iowa girl, my perspective is this: the volunteer work at Shiloh had free room and board. Boohoo.Shiloh had flush toilets. You were lucky. some of us Iowas folks did not have indoor plumbing for years.
I ow folks knew how to work. When I first went to CA the youth group was so rude to me, with exceptions, because I did not dres as well as they did. I di not put on make-up liek they did. I wasn't used to hanging out in the mall.

Farmers and their families work like that day after day for generations or farm the beginning time. The cows have to be milked and fed so do the chickens need feed. The garden has to be weeded. The crops brought in whether or not you are dead tired or you will loose everything. If you were farm kids you still had to go to school , do your homework then go to church. Rural life is hard sweaty work. City folks needed to learn about life outside the mall.

Yes, I am a tad judgmental when people complain their parents made then work for their prom dress or set the table and make their beds.Many people who were sent to Shiloh perhaps did need to learn to get their hands dirty.

I honestly feel that those who use the term "slave labor" need to re-think those words. Was anyone bound in chains or had a whip strike them? Was any one starved or had water withheld or behind bars in the walk?

When taking to a friend when I said people were talking about "slave labor" in this forum. He called me on the termonolgy. Could people walk away? Kalona isn't that far of the walk to town to a pay phone. Anyone could have hitch a ride in a horse and buggy from the Amish. Walk on the road long enough and a sherif or hogh wasy patrol could drive by after a while.

Again, I am reading years after many posts were published. IF per chance there really was "slave labor" by definition other than by people who seemed to gone to Shiloh who had been spoiled teens who felt entitled before they got to Shiloh well, I think you needed to learn how to work.

I would love to reach out to real victims if there are any. if there are really "slave victims " by definiton of the law then your friends will do what we can to help you find legal advice.

I knew jrs since I was child in the late'50's. I am convinced with out a doubt that JRS loved the word of God. He dedicated his youth to learning the word and sharing the word. Probably to the point as a youth he did not have a balance in hiw life where he successfully completed normal developmentla stages as he should have. ( That is my RN training speaking. Not a prophetic word.

He had a loving smile that made other people smile. His parents were wonderful people.
Personally, I have issues that include not being comfortable around men. Becasue of that I coudl feel "creepy" at times, but that is not an accusation of anything. I was me, nor him. I did see him "hit' on my mother and she did not appreciate it. But again, that was my mother-she had "issues" besidee being beautiful and very smart with a big mouth...so that is not evidence of wrong -doing either.

At some point "we" the people did begin to "idolize" jrs. I think much like people idolize a movie start or rock star. that kind of fame goes to people heads> Is that what happened to begin with?

I remember as a teen ( well groudned in the bible myself) contemplating on how newbie guys got put into postions of mentored leadership when they wer so new and did not seem to have much experience in reading the Bible.

As a teen, what did I know? I did know that many other girls had been jealous of my sister adn I who were chosen to play the piano and they wanted to know why they weren;t on the platform playing . m-m-m? My sister and I started playing in childrens church and we practiced piano a lot. alSo I felt i was sinfully wrong to question out loud why these young punks were given so much power?

In hind site,I have to wonder why the seasoned adults in the churches allowed it? A number of guys I can think of had come out of other movements and they were not wet enough behind the ears to discern their way out of paper bag. I'm sorry.

AS far as dear sweet Happy Clark goes, he might very well have blurted out his epiphany out of being his Happy self when nobody else said " you are jesus." then "herd mentality" took over. There were many mature men (Biblical ) with stable family relationships who had prayed their hearts out to become elders or deacons a they were rejected over the young guys. How smart was the alleged holy spirit?

Being on that platform, I heard things the congregation never heard. Preachers know what music to tell the organist to play to get more $ in the offering or to get more people to confess sins at an altar call. I was a compliant kid, so I did as I was told ( I was priveleged female to support the organist.) But I never felt that it was right if the Holy sprit was supposed to be leading rather than the background music in a movie that told you to be happy or be afraid.

The males rulee while the females submitted in those days...something changed along the way. The youth wer given power by being tuaght spiritual secrets in the Bless-ins the grow up were not enthusiaticaclly taught.

Why did the mature adults who had been taught the Bile principles not ever step in? I don't know.

Now it remind me of Hitler training techinques supported by propoganda. if you have not read about waht happened in Palo Alto in '67 where a teacher did an experiment that started what quicly became a dangerous movement with his class I hope you read about it or watch a film called "The Wave."The students are my contemporaries. I see similarities in the youth in the walk and the youth who fell into acting like nazi youth in a few days time.
The sheep following the leader met un-met needs in many people who needed to feel a part of something important. Sorry, but it was not the holy spirit leading.
My opinion. What do you think happened? did the devil makes us do anything?

louanne, you wrote abo Waco, TX and the Branch Davidian.
I don't know ho wmany at Shiloh were aware of something that happened aroudn '77 when I was warehoused there after having a nervous break down from never having enough sleep when I worked a graveyard as an RN. I was a just exhausted not crazy. Many loving woman at Shiloh help me ot recover.
Yes, 98% good.

There times when JRS invited me to the Upper room. I was not any one special. I had just been in the mother church in Washington a long time. AS i sat amd relaxed up ther in a comfy chair JRS gt phone calls.

2% problems that were swept under the rug.

One was about one of the golden boys as I called them, who had gotten arrested on a DUI. JRS said to get a lawyer for him and that anyone who had recently garlged with scope would fail a breathe test. I am goody 2 shoes RN those words were something I had to ponder.

Also there wasa discussion about a man, I can;t remember his name, but we all knew him. Te guy had a bunch of guns as he was alleged an big hunter, but not from Iowa. There were rumors in town, Kalona or maybe from the country Sherif in Washington about maybe Shiloh had some kind of strong hold. In my mind I pictured an old western fort with a shoot out.

Nothing happend. JRS smoothed it over like a home town boy that he was. Imagiantions in the local town folks heads ran wild. At the time I could not blame the, I had seen what the CA youth did at our first church camp at Christian TAbernacle. They terrorized the Washington, Iowa merchants. I supposed the kids meant no harm, but they were guests in town being very rude. They did not demonstrate Christian love and it was not unusual from Shiloh members to rise a ruckus in my quiet God fearing home town/ county. CA culture was nothing like Iowa culture in Amish country.
(in walk wording.)

I have to question if the small % of males in leadership were so lead by the Lord to give words of wisdom why was it ok to break the law, be disrespectful, endanger others and terrorize in a small god fearing community?

For me, the youth vision for shiloh before the roudn breaking was church camp with fun games. Having to work instead of play to build the place was not what city kids ever expected. so I think complaints may be out fo proportion to learning ethics.
I do know of neglect and some beatings of select children who were not the the very compliate kind. ( My chidl was one child who had th ehell beat out of him. But I am not aware of any actaul major sexual abuse allegations other than in a friend's family with a step father ( No names)

Thanks NickleandDimed

You are absolutley correct. JRS was enabled by people who should have known better. All that got me on the prayer for my eeath on the Jez/ Neph list. My father in law who was there should have known better.

I had to get out of there with my girls and go hide at my sisters in who was still in the walk in another city. I supposed she stayed because she had close friends.

Many woman, who shall be nameless, also knew what their hubbies were doing and they ended up in Psych...not they were not "crazy". they had enough, too of the lies and mis appropriation of money that was supposed to pay house hold bills like my hubby was doing.

The kingdom kids missed some important developmetnal milestones evevn if they were treated well.
I had written papers at JRS request about nursery guidelines and developmental stages back when I was at Shiloh. There were santitaion/ infection control issues;student and teacher ratios; safety:and the fact that "discipline" means to teach...Rejected as not spirtual. But, this was my expertise.

County agencies did step like I had warned with some families before I called them in for help myself. My children were removed... a blessing that I got the out of the walk. We were on a watch listt because my son had broken his arm severely at a babysitterw from the church. Of course the hospital were mandoory reporters. Social work had to deide if I broke his arm if if the story my son tole was true. Social servid knew wehre we wnet to church and kids went to school. The school had been FLAGGEd already but the social workers were not so welled trained at that time so they blew the investigation...but I got my kids out fo the walk entierely.

I did not care that I was an evil, evil woman in the eyes of the drunken/ druggie leaders. It is very possible not all leaders had addiction issues in every group.

Hi Tknc
thank you for your reply.

"sympathetic spirit towards the devastated people"
Wow! when i write about some of these things those kind of phrases pop into my head.

Oh my where is the love when people who are strugling to survive from a disaster need empathic help. narasists have no empathy. yep an "evil psych term" that describes toxic people who need power and control over others. When they can get the control they seek to destroy as they moved to find theri next victim. There is nothing Godly nor Christ like aboutit.

Excellent post, Tknc. FWIW, I think the Walk started going bad sometime in 1951.


Tknc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for pulling up JezTheBelle's post, not sure
> when she wrote it, but it is still very relevant.
> From my perspective, trying to pinpoint where it
> went 'astray,' or became a cult is irrelevant.
> I've believed for almost 30 years that my family
> escaped The Walk right as it was "getting bad."
> Only to find out from Woodrow's book that it was
> pretty damn bad well before '82. The teachings of
> JRS are a virus. They evolve and infect people
> even today.