rrmoderator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See
> [www.culteducation.com]
>
> Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe
> group/leader.
>
> Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful
> gful accountability.
>
> No tolerance for questions or critical
> ical inquiry.
>
> No meaningful financial disclosure regarding
> ding budget, expenses such as an independently
> audited financial statement.
>
> Unreasonable fear about the outside world,
> rld, such as impending catastrophe, evil
> conspiracies and persecutions.
>
> There is no legitimate reason to leave, former
> rmer followers are always wrong in leaving,
> negative or even evil.
>
> Former members often relate the same stories
> ries of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of
> grievances.
>
> There are records, books, news articles, or
> , or television programs that document the abuses
> of the group/leader.
>
> Followers feel they can never be "good
> good enough".
>
> The group/leader is always right.
>
> The group/leader is the exclusive means of
> s of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no
> other process of discovery is really acceptable or
> credible.
>
> Ten warning signs regarding people involved
> in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
>
> Extreme obsessiveness regarding the
> the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of
> almost every practical consideration.
>
> Individual identity, the group, the leader
> ader and/or God as distinct and separate
> categories of existence become increasingly
> blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these
> identities become substantially and increasingly
> fused--as that person's involvement with the
> group/leader continues and deepens.
>
> Whenever the group/leader is criticized or
> d or questioned it is characterized as
> "persecution".
>
> Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly
> ngly programmed conversation and mannerisms,
> cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
>
> Dependency upon the group/leader for problem
> blem solving, solutions, and definitions without
> meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability
> to think independently or analyze situations
> without group/leader involvement.
>
> Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader
> ader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal
> goals or individual interests.
>
> A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of
> e of humor.
>
> Increasing isolation from family and old
> old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in
> the group/leader.
>
> Anything the group/leader does can be
> n be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
>
> Former followers are at best-considered
> ered negative or worse evil and under bad
> influences. They can not be trusted and personal
> contact is avoided.
>
> Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
>
> A safe group/leader will answer your questions
> ions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
>
> A safe group/leader will disclose information
> tion such as finances and often offer an
> independently audited financial statement
> regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and
> leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
>
> A safe group/leader is often democratic,
> tic, sharing decision making and encouraging
> accountability and oversight.
>
> A safe group/leader may have disgruntled
> tled former followers, but will not vilify,
> excommunicate and forbid others from associating
> with them.
>
> A safe group/leader will not have a paper
> aper trail of overwhelmingly negative records,
> books, articles and statements about them.
>
> A safe group/leader will encourage family
> mily communication, community interaction and
> existing friendships and not feel threatened.
>
> A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable
> able boundaries and limitations when dealing with
> others.
>
> A safe group/leader will encourage critical
> ical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of
> self-esteem.
>
> A safe group/leader will admit failings and
> and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and
> advice.
>
> A safe group/leader will not be the only
> only source of knowledge and learning excluding
> everyone else, but value dialogue and the free
> exchange of ideas.


Thanks.
I wish we all knew these things decades ago. Now we do. We can learn that what happened was not of our own doing and heal in those areas.

So we can perhpas help the next generation stay safe.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here are the sermons that I believe
> TheycalledmeJonah mentioned.
>
> [www.thelivingword.org]
>
> Make of it what you will. My take is that the
> people will suffer.

Playing detective, yes, I think is is a "code" from the last supper messages. I have not read too much yet about algining with Catholics. Here is quote from that link

"Eucharist: Giving Thanks for God’s Grace
Posted on November 30, 2017
by John Buckingham
Source: shilohiowa.org
…“And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.’ And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, ‘This cup which is poured out for… The post Eucharist: Giving Thanks for God’s Grace appeared first on Shiloh…."

Eucarist is a Catholic term. I think I noted Brazil. They are very Catholic still I think. The Williams were down there for many years. I wonder IF they are trying to use verbage to appeal to the dissatified Catholics?

Sounds like g is getting ready to purge somthing. (like maybe the protestants in exhane for more wealthy Catholics for more protection?) The Catholics beleive that drinking of the communion wine actually turns to Christ blood.

My opinion and I do find it disturbing. I listend to some of G messages on video. He did mention the cup also .
I am not an expert, but I do believe his monotone voice and word repetition of "submission" disciple" kind of words that were planned subliminal messages.

Oh mY. I have conspiracy theory mentality or a jezabel spirit. Take your pick or check out my aura!

it is another story but my son and i ahve been reseaerching n Muslims.

When I read.... " "It is not enough that I alone drink the cup the Lord is asking of me, but there must be a people who enter into the same commitment to drink this cup. It is time for each one of us to take responsibility for the Word of God over us. We have been given the perfect direction and provision in the Word that John Robert Stevens spoke."

Zero humility, on Gary's part. He, of course, is doing everything the Lord has required. Meanwhile, the people are dragging their heels. Same false narrative over and over again."

...it all reminded my of the "prophet Mohumund" , the name dropper of Jesus and father Abraham with his own twisted version of the quran...mentioning jrs is like over loading tag words on blog to get more seo results for their plagarized words of wisdom to self promote his own ego. Then when ever he, the perfect man made a indiscrection Allah changed the rules just for him. if the people made a boo boo they got stoned or head chopped off.

Maybe or may be not that similar in sick patern of behavior, but these so called prophets seems to be wearing the same dirty undwear like every other human being but proclaim that brown streak is a chocolate ice cream spill. Delussions of graduer in my book. That is dangerous. "Convert or we saw you head off."

Is there any one talking class action law suit? If so, please don't answer here.

There are genetic groups of people who get reparation.
Lots of Nazi's hid out in So America.

Do we know how many people "volunteered" to build Shoil or peel potatoes in the kitchen. Or how many kingdom businesses paid so little the "employees" could get welfare and the Queen of Creation could have all the gold?

What about all the people who donated to Shilo or to build a church builing? Can we see the books? Who gets the $$$ when the closed church building is sold?

What about all the pastors who so faithly cared for the flocks then got dumped without benefits. What will they put on a job resume" " prayer warrior" or "nephulim slayer"? Can they apply for un-employement?

What about SSDI or Soc Sec. did their salaries pay into it or not?

it is criminal for some on to just walk away with money from the offering.
Still thinking of the "cup". What if he tries to fake it so he can disappear with church funds?

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, hi folks. Today my husband received an
> unsigned letter with no return address in the
> mail, postmarked HONOLULU, HI
>
> Here is what they wrote. Please give me your
> thoughts, or let me know if this has ever happened
> to you.
>
> "Husband's Name,
>
> I keep track of posts on the Rick Ross Forum. Last
> month your wife began posting and published her
> name in the profile section. Her name is not there
> now. I made a copy of her profile when her name
> was visible. My job is to give it to Kevin when
> Gary returns from Brazil.
> I liked you _________. If you can get your wife to
> stop posting, I won't give the information on to
> Kevin. Your wife posts under the screen name
> Reepicheep."

Disturbing. I am so sorry this has happening to you.

What do you think about talking to a lawyer? I have prepaid leagl membership.so if I get a letter sealed with a kiss I would ask them.This is warning. it can be a disguised warning as well. I only got in the group and was worried about proving if I was a troll or not. I have not been careful about what I say.

There are just creepy trolls who pretend to be some one they are not. Then there are mafia hench men or religious zealots who will murder you if you talk against their leader.

I had not been updated for a few years too much. Now that I have I am seeing some not so mentally healthy behaviors to say the least. Do you all think it wise to stay on this forum or find a more discreet way to communicate?

I have let my hair down.. I can be so stupid... but I think people needed to know what I witnessed. I have not told it all. I'm sure you all have held back. I trusted and you have trusted. Can we trust everyone? I don't think so. There is plenty of money available to make other arrangements for snitches or those who know too much.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------
> > I suspect the people are so accustomed to being
> > beaten down by his "living word," the idea that
> > there is a God that is not driven to lay heavy
> > burdens upon them must seem like heresy (Matt.
> > 23:4)
> > BTW, as Gary transitions into spending more and
> > more time in Brazil, with its obvious benefits,
> > I'm wondering what exactly is "the cup" that he
> is
> > supposedly reluctant to drink. If it doesn't
> > involve some guilt-trip placed on church
> members
> > in the states, I would be surprised.
>
> Some guesses for “the cup”:
> He doesn't know how to anounce:
>
> •That he has to close more churches
> •That he has to kick Rick out of the Fellowship
> •That he is planning to move to Brazil
> •That he is moving to Rome
> •That he is getting married
> •That he is starting a harem
> •That God told him that the people should start
> rt tithing 80% of their income
> •That they are all converting to Catholicism, or
> or Judaism, or both
> •That Satan is back after all
> •That they must dress like Hare Krishnas and
> nd evangelize in airports
> •All of the above
>
> Just a few thoughts. Anybody else?

I was going for all of the above but changed my mind. I can think for my self so brace you self.

Change his name to Kaitlain and learn how to apply makeup or split his personalaity, wear a burka and become the 29th wife of a rich shiek who is really his own alter ego. that ought to throw every one off when he boards the plane to So America.

NancyB, I’m lovin’ what you’re posting here. Welcome to our group of ex-pats.

larry lobo you wrote " I personaly believe John's interest in the occult resulted in open doors that were never meant to be opened in our Christian walk"

i agree. I wonder if newer folks knew about the witch.

In mid 60's a practicing witch was in the Valley, I think. That church building was new. When I made a visit she was there.

Please correct any memory mistakes. She supposedly had "repented" . JRS learned a lot from her he said. I think he justified it as how to defeat the devil or something like that. He did seem to love to learn new things. ( He also seemed to like to plagerize and claim new revelations. We did not have internet back then, and I doubt our home encyclopeidas covered thsoe things he read.)

Around that time the hIppies had Love-in's. So the Walk adpated the term to "Bless-in" where the group practiced things like "imparting" and "aura building. One ,pre of the principles he learned from the witch ( I think they call themsleves wickans now.) was the left hand over the right and in a circle. then we I guess meditataed, but he called it __ waiting on th elord. Then we spoke in tonques and prophisied. but I honestly think no one spoke in tongues. I really don't think any of us teen could disern our way out of a paper bag. But the leaders encouraged us that we were filled with the spirit. I hated faking it. I hated pretending. it tookk me years to be filled with the spirit and wonder what the hell was worng with me?

There was lot lot of energy in the room at bless in. The hands got very warm. That was supposed to be the out pouring of the spirit. I thought is was so many people too close for comfort in the same room. i was the kind of girl that did not really want to darw attention to myslef. ( personal issues)


I had not thought about this for a long time. What I remember most off the top of head is I wore curlers and as scraf one night. It was hard for my peers "build my aura" with curlers in my hair. At least I did not use empty oj cans.

We were actualy using occult practices as teen agers on Saturday nights in Washinton. That was scandleous in the mid west. I don't recall the adults partook.Except we gave a powerful domonstration to show the old foggeies how spiritually powerful we teen were. I do recall some kids would pass out becasue they locked their knees- some thought it was because they were slain in the spirit. Some older colleg kids said they shut their circulation off and should be sure to bend their knees a bit.

JRS taught us those things. he learned from the witch. Did we grow spiritually according to word of God?

The witch ended up leaving, but, there was something amiss with the exit.

I think that was the first time when I met M on a trip to CA.. (I'm getting old here) I, a dumb Iowas girl was just sure M was flirting and bossy him around. I asked who she was and found out she was the secretary. What do I know? I was 14 or 15 and did not understand squat about the ways of the world on th west coast.

This may or may not be related. Around that time, there was a woman who came to church against her husband's wishes. She went any way. She got councel and I was told that the brothers basically told her to submit to her husband. divorse was wrong.
Long story short they told her to stay with him desite her pleas as she feared for her life. When she went home, the husband killed her and hacked her too pieces along with the furniture. he got off on some thing like crime of passion then married his girl friend....don't quote me. There have to be people around who remember. ( i really ahd to qustion how wish the elders were when they ministered to people.)

So after that one of my older peers sister was getting beat to a bloddy pulp by her husband. The church helped her escape and hide her. Grandp Stevne told us over the pulpit that we don't condone divorce, but we will not tolerate domestic abuse. We would no tmake the same mistake again as had happened.

AFter that I beli3ve a lot more divores happened. My own sister got divorced and was very quiet about what went on for long time. it shocked me as I had no idea that people would do those things. and it makes me sick as to what she told me waht golden boys were into... occultish perversion.

i have no idea what jrs stance or involvement was. I do know that I did not understand why the "naughty" boys may have seemed to have been condoned while my gay friend Arthur was regected. I was not informed directly other than what my sisiter told me happened.

it is no make sense to me and my sheltered teen age perseption was immmature. But I knew somethings was very much not ok. I ws confused. CA kids would taunt me as to how naive I was and asked me stuff like if I still used out houses. My wardrobe was out of date. How Christian is that? I am not bitter. I just never understood how this could be so off and every one seemed ok with it. I was a minor from Iowa.

Mid to late 60's I did not fit-in in CA. JRS wanted me to come out to Blix house then thankfully the lord changed his mind.

I feel ashamed to have to reveal this. i feel gross. But, I think there will be others to confirmed this. if they are not in fear. this was JRS era a few years before the teens in CA and Iowa had a dream for a big church camp that did not have out houses in Iowa. We never imaged that Shiloh would be more than a retreat we did not have to rent adn could go to when ever the spirit moved.

I a going to open Pandora's box and I need yoru help to move quickly as we can.

My son was is kingdom school during the reign of jrs in the walk/ church of the lving word. My son was one of too many that were beaten.

Sure there were some good teachers, but they did nothing to stop abuse that happened to some children. ( Any one know how many kingdom teachers over all who actually had minimal credtentlsials? i feel the school's creditials were over rated and inflated.)

At my kids' school the children were aparently not supervised on the play ground. The girls got by with kicking his __ just because he was a boy causing sterility.

I took him to services. Because he had not yet fully diagnosdie health issues he would need to got the boys room during the service. The older boys, son's of church leaders beat him up. You would think that the mother of a 7 or 8 year old should not have to physically stand the boys room at church???

I witness members being told to beat their children from of the congregation if the small child could not "behave". There were DHS files made on a number of parents who had drug related issues.

I understand that there were incidence of sexaul abuse as well, but , not personally. Only heresay.

Around '77 at Shiloh there were some babies who were left on changing tables and they fell off on the floor... Child welfare and public health nearly shut down the whole complex for some infectious diseases and ratio issues in the nursery. ( I won't discuss my role, yet, but this is an area of my expertise.)

I had "offers" to have church members interceded by taking turns beating the devil out of my son until his spirit broke. I flat out refused adn you know waht that made me! They claimed to have healed other kids this way they said. My son has mild austism tho' very smart and highly functioning.

There are numberous other allegations coming out from the mid 70's to the mid 80's other allegations are comiing to light as well.

Yes, people said something. But the leaders responces were inappropriate.
Survivors who left the walk seem to be putting pieces together hopefully learning that were never alone. I am certain we who were in the walk still have great love for the people we shared bonds with one another. JRS made statements about the law not allowing parents to "spank". ( BEating witha borad for hours is not "spanking" asa form of smacking on the butt for safety when needing child to stop putting their hands on the stove burning kind of 'discipline."

I am very concerned about what happened to our children in the walk and what developemental stages they missed beacsue parents were over worked and in violent intercession for prolonged days.

There are also issues of "slave labor" under the guise of volunteerism. But the "founding leaders" prophitted. We survivors need closure.

I am gathering information what other group have done to find closure. [religiondispatches.org]

I caution you to please not posted details or names on the internet. These sites are not secure. We cany use witnessed. It is never too late to speak up.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Nor am I giving legal advice. I want to put heads together to see what we can do to have closure.

I am open to PM but you will have to convince me you are not troll or a spy. We trusted when we should not have. i say we take it back.

Wow--these are very powerful allegations, NancyB. I have no knowledge of these churches during that time period, so can not weigh in one way or another on what you wrote. Well, except the prevalence in the Walk/TLWF of 'encouraging' church members to provide free service/labor to leadership...that I can certainly vouch for.