I'm starting to realize that the idea of transference, being affected, attacks by nephilim spirits, Body signs...etc all of them are very convenient constructs for manipulation and never having to take responsibility for your own actions. Always shifting responsibility from yourself to someone or something else.

"I'm feeling this way because you opened up to someone! You need to break your connections."

"We are under attack because your wife has a rebellious spirit"

When you teach someone that the cause is always outside themselves, the cycle continues, no one ever taking responsibility for their own actions.

I can't help but chuckle inappropriately, I feel, when I read your words now that we are looking from the outside side in and not caught up in emotion.

caos1952 you nail it about M being the Jezabel...she was a the filthy pot calling the kettle black as distraction from the the real truth. Accused everyone else while she/ built her kingdom.

"There is a word from God, one that didn't come out of the mouth of John though. It comes from the Bible. It speaks of a day when a man will be called a prophet and he will answer "I am no prophet, I am a tiller of the ground."

LOL inappropriately with the phrase "tiller of the the ground". There is a commonly used word that starts with F that litterly means to "plow the field". We all got screwed by the "leading of the lord" ...Lord M.

larrylobo said " oppression of drunken shepherds who could not run their own lives.." Amen Bro. Did many of the flock know about all the boozing and 'not wasting comunion wine?' Yeah, many leaders were drunk at services or passing out drugs at a number of groups in the walk. ( I was involved in 1/ dozen personally.)

I may as well blurt this out: My father-in law was Russell Ellinger. oh yeah. I was a big Jez because i complained that my husband, could not keep a job. He was so disfunctional. Even ingdom business coudll not get enough slvae labor ourt of him. He spend my earnings as a nurse on booze then there was no money to buy milk for the kids and he did not care. Yet Russell was so sure his son John was an oricle of god..cough cough... Russell and jeanne were at Anaheim so often so why did Russell a defrocked ordained minister not see the crap behind the pulpit? He was also defrocked from 4 square as well as JRS He was college educated. He was actually one of the very few ordained ministers with actual training...don't be impressed. Maybe the training and degree was part of why jrs and M let him stay around. Russelll had enough of his own dirty little secrets. Yes, I am speaking ill of the dead. "The sins of the father thing last for generations."

Russell was still playing Cho cho train on the ground in college like little boy until one a college friend told him it was time to 'grow up'. I don;t he he did grow up liek he pretended
After he married Wilma he went off to be a missionary in Jamaca where he aparently fathered a kid or so. Wilma was a teacher. She and John lived free on her family farm. All but $5 of her teacher salary was sent to support Russell work in Jamaca. My husband used to fantasize that his daddy would come home and play ball with him. " But my daddy never did play ball with me," They joined Christain Tabernacle around 1960 or '61. He was not a Stevens faimily meember nor an old elder of the core families, but they let him act like a pastor kind of guy.

Airing dirty laundry decades after the fact i think is so not nice. But the fact is that the Ellinger neglect is no different that the drunken pastors at Anaheim, any way, who spent their time lifting hands in praise and eye gazing up up to god to inteceeding while neglecting their children...of course Russell would not condemn them. He was too busy judging the frustrated co-dendant wives like myself who were not exalting their husband's lofty postions enough.

The flocks were decieved in soo many groups. The ones I was not a part of had family relationship with many key leaders. We all listened to tthe tapes. so it was difficult to seperate even when people walked away from the walk.


Rus and J would come over to my house after Anahiem service condemning me for missing a meeting on Saturday. I worked graveyard shift of 12 to 18 hours and had to grab a few hours of sleep now and then to go work my 2nd job and they did not get it. They were so holier than thou. I was critisied for my husband's underware and other clothes being all over the floor and spills of juice he used to mix vodka. My messy house was my bad spirit...i "should have been serving my god head" but I would not pick up after the drunken slob.

I am certain the big boys in the back room in Ananheim were really no better than "my drunk." JRS was an alcoholic I know, so is it possible that martha had a right to get pissy with him like I did with "my orcle of god"?

I don't get it. What was Jeanne and Russell's pay off? He was a seasoned minister who complained for years in Iowa that he was up minitering to the flock in Washington and only got 7 hours of sleep. Jeanne was the widow of a long time elder in Washington. The Ellingers were older than most when the walk took off. They had experienced life...yet they could not see what was going on in the back room they were privy to?

Jeanne ran Russell. He had worked a job some, but never supported himself nor cooked a meal. nor mowed the law. He was no saint no matter how many King James verbage he regurgitated with his eyes lifted up and hands raised.

I see a pattern of the leadership men "doing god's work" while the women worked their behinds off to support the house hold. yes, it is a tremendous responcibility to manage a church. it takes time and dedication to pastor.it is an honorable position. Yet the thithe did not support the bulk of the pastors in the walk. the sacrificial collections went into the Queens jewelry box.

Russell lived off of my late mother in law and her mother's money for the more part. He did hold some jobs. He neglected his children and wife. Yet when he died so many people at Shilo talked like he was a saint. or did they? My son would like to know what he really did other then generously donate his grand chidlren's inheritence from theri wealthy gret grand parents.

Russell did not have a word from god any more than any other M's "yes" man did. ( I kind of want to say "I'm sorry". and then again I don't. Words from god and speaking in tongues were just jiberish out of their heads that were laughed at for the fun of it in the office of a least Washinton. Prophsey was joke to some of the leaders. I supposed the real sincere took their commision seriously..the ones who sacrificed it all. I don't want to lump the greedy with the god fearing who dedicated themselves to the love of GOD. How do we sperate the wolves in sheep clothes from the sweet sheep?)

Am I bitter like they pointed a finger at me? Maybe...I think more angry... but not in the spiritual way the women said who were King Makers who controlled those men. I want to heal and I want the wouned to heal too.

M controlled the weak men to make them look like paternalistic kings so she could secretly be the queens of heaven. My father in law was controlled by a submissive looking 2nd wife. There was an illusion for the perfect relationships that never existed for how many?

I see a pattern of figure heads that were so disfunctional in some leaders. not all. The walk did have good men who loved god so much...but how did it get so out of control? How many in Anaheim died of drug over doses? How many arrests for drug dealing? How many women who knew too much eneded up in psych? ( I confess I ended in psych. I also had to call DHS for help. They took my kids knowing that they wer part of the chidlren in the Walk. That is how I was able to get my children out of the walk. The stories Russel told were not accurate.)

Can "we" honestly answer our own choices of behavior? I believe most of us wanted to know GOD, the real GOD. But we were afraid to not "look" the spiritual part. "We" had herd mentality beleiveing we would have herd immunity from the disease of "Babylon". We would ride on the shirt tails of the prophets.

It was not spiritual warfare. The spirit was booze talking to cover up a woman's plot for power and control. We were all raped by the whore of babyon her self. "We" fell into a delussion afraid to say that we did not see a "naked king in his new clothes." And when we did see and tell the truh, we were shuned. ( The smae dangerous patterns are seen in other cults and even soem main stream denomantions. We are not unique. Nor are we much better than the Germans during Nazi era I am ashamed to say.)

I apologize for being harsh. I write this with all due respect a love to those who simply wanted to have a loving relationship with Jehova our creator so much that we were suckers lead by people who could not run their own lives. May the ugly truth will set us free.

Walking wounded
I just joined in this group. I want to connect with people I cared about.

I'm an old timer. One of the Nancys from Christian Tabernacle. I read you were from the jrs family. So, we have do have some close ties.

(I go by pen name on line.)

So many are trying to heal. Those of us who had the pre-walk back ground have a different perspective to offer if we chose.

If you care to connect I am open.

I am searching especially for the older members from the 50's and early '60's like baby boomers whose parents were already long time members and grand children. I am open to other clw Shilo folks as well.


Some of us has some matters to discuss that I don't think it should be done on line where any random general public can be privleged to.

I know this is an old psot, but I am using the thread to reach out to any one. I think I can supply some missing puzzle pieces that may help some with resolution in therapy. I am just human.

kj5fers

I know this is an old post. Reaching out anyway. I would like to connect with old timers in particular. Not for gossip. We all need closure.

I will guess you knew my late sister kathy who was married in So Gate in '69. She cared deeply for so many people. She room a boarded in JRS Blix neighborhood then with a family I am guessing you know.

The church knew me by my birth name Nancy. I go by my pen name. Rather than my married name as I was never the property of my late father in law.

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And there is another thing. The very many children
> produced by polygamist families often lead to
> applications for welfare.
>
> That means that tax paying US citizens who do not
> share this belief system are indirectly
> subsidizing this lifestyle.


This is exactly what they did in "kingdom businesses": that I knew of, any way. Pay little salaries. Share a house and food stamps adn free medical. The profits that weren't skimpped off of some biz went to some bank accounts of the heirarchy. I suspected a money laundry with drugs dealers, but I never exactly found out. I am only thinking of a certain biz.

My late ex husband worked for another kb close by. When I refused to stop babysitting for ever kid for $5 week that lieterlay got drop on my soor step without warning. I got my CA RN licence and went to work. This prompted my husband to be directed to leave the kingdom biz and go get a job. He wasn't productive worker anyway. But his tiny salary had to be more than more other workers... He was a liability to them.
I know also understand that not for profit biz are extremley likely to be audited by IRS. All "employees" participated in fruad...but it would have been calleed spiirtual warefare.

" after an individual has been involved in an isolated group for a few years, it is very difficult to get them to question anything. The reason the leaders of these groups try to separate their followers is to maintain control. It takes a serious crisis to break the spell." larry lobo said.
And you larry are absolutely correct. That principal is one used by the succesfful marketing companies as wel as cultish leaders. It is all mind control whether we are ready to see it or not.

I was "dumb" for a long time.

There were many wonderful and good sheep with a few very sick, narcasistic and psychopathic personality who had no conciouens about deception. this is hard fro so many good people to understand a person can do immoral and unethical things they would never dream of doing themselves. Again, a marketing stragey is "resiprosity". We became beholden to the mother of all whores in disguise who knew own secrets. Very sick mixed with good things is stil very sick.

Chaos1952 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hesitate to call the whole thing a cult, I mean
> there was a lot of great people in the WALK, and
> for the most part, JRS had an incredible knowledge
> of the bible. Comparing the WALK to the
> churchianity as a whole, it was and probably still
> isn't all that bad. You see, people tend to make
> a gold calf out of their leaders, for one thing,
> if they can put the leader on a pedestal, if they
> can influence him or her, make them need that
> worship, they can in essence control them. That
> is what happened with JRS, he had a bunch of yes
> men (and women) around him, and they did influence
> him. Marilyn came along and said everything John
> wanted to hear, she wiggled and giggled and
> idolized him and made him feel good, made him feel
> young, and next thing you know, Martha is out,
> Marilyn is in, JRS is dead and she has all the
> property and money and ministry and, well, you
> know the story, Hargrave figured he would marry
> the grieving widow and then he would be the man.
> This is no different than what happens in the rest
> of Christendom, nothing special there.
>
> I know this, the people that I met at Shiloh from
> other parts of the country would have been Moonies
> or Heavens Gate stiffs or Jim Jones followers,
> whoever came first would be whoever they followed.
> I don't know that JRS was such a cult leader, but
> the people in it were certainly lining up to
> worship whatever man they found.

Great symposis Caos 1952.

I have to say that when I first met JRS I was a child. I learned so much about the Bible freom him. He inpsired me to read the Bible adn memorize as i was encourage by our children curch lteachers.
Jrs kept my atteniton ( I found some you tube of G in a boring monotone as he name drops almost reapeating verbatum phrases I remember jrs saying. Can the holy spirit any one not plageraize? ok , so he told qute a few scriptures. Critcally speaking)

I still don't know why JRS was idolized. I admired him as a teacher. tho' I was afraid of him like I was of most men. The way he looked though every one. I think that was a learned trick.

I do know that some "ignorant" people, (gotta love'em ) did blurt out that they saw him as christ. they were never publically redirected. Like a marketing techinque many people began to accept that comment as a fact because they heard it repeated. ( buy pop corn... buy pop corn...by pop corn.)

I wonder if a key was WHO was doing the marketing on the erronious concept that took over. ( WAs god herself?)

BTW I had missed the fellowship. I befreinded a well known women. Step by step I allowed her to take me over and submit to her. She love bombed me. It was in my ingrained training. She gave words of prophesy and messages from the angels. She was spot on. What I did not know was that she has stollen the keys to my apartment.... and worse.

Step by step I fell into her delussion. At a point after doing her biding I displeased her and she nearly killed me. Turns out many professional folks in town had been " bullied " by her. After the fact many believe she murderd 2 husbands and more former clients of hers.

Shortly before I escaped from her after mysterious deaths in my apartment complex of her former clients she revealed that god was a woman a fat woman. she was god according to her but she got me to blurt it out after hints. ( She is Scizophrenic with well organized delusions.)

Crud! I fell for the very same thing that hppened in the walk for what ever reson. in the walk, years before, sumission absolute obedience is what I was trained to do.

Point is I think that I a not stupid. Yet, I had established a pattern of vulnerable behavior a naracasistic psychopath picked up on.

Is it possbile that other survivors of the walk could also become prey to other good looking, well spoken psycho paths as well after having been trained to be submission and hungry for a closeness to god?

Does my off beat experince ring a bell to you as much as it does to me how vulnerable our dear brother and sister survivors may be vulnerable to?

I know my fatehr fell into every TV preacher out there. My dad was kicked out of the walk. he knew too much.

Sorry my typos are not spirit lead. It is disability thing that I am famous for.

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > My husband could not make decisions on his own nor
> keep a job. In faact he did not know how to buy
> underware. We got amarried and i saw his holey
> undeware. He wsa teacher for 2 years.. I said ,
> "John, why don;t you go buy new jocky short?" "I
> have to pray about." the he got a witness from his
> parents...not kidding..

We at lily rose ministries lift up John's sons who were falsely told they were prophets and yet cannot make most basic decisions.

#hashtag# boxers or briefs?

Welcome NancyB!

Tknc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm starting to realize that the idea of
> transference, being affected, attacks by nephilim
> spirits, Body signs...etc all of them are very
> convenient constructs for manipulation and never
> having to take responsibility for your own
> actions. Always shifting responsibility from
> yourself to someone or something else.
>
> "I'm feeling this way because you opened up to
> someone! You need to break your connections."
>
> "We are under attack because your wife has a
> rebellious spirit"
>
> When you teach someone that the cause is always
> outside themselves, the cycle continues, no one
> ever taking responsibility for their own actions.


Theatre Art. Your parents learned from the master.

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many women who knew too much eneded
> up in psych? ( I confess I ended in psych. I also
> had to call DHS for help. They took my kids
> knowing that they were part of the chidlren in the
> Walk. That is how I was able to get my children
> out of the walk. The stories Russel told were not
> accurate.

Nancy B. thank you for that one. There was a story of a young woman in the Valley Church, who during an attempted rape, began speaking in tongues. Apparently that was too crazy for rapist and he ran off. The young woman was unharmed.

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chaos wrote:
>
>

Quote

You need to realize that if you were
> deceived, it was your own fault. That is a hard
> thing to say, but for whatever reason, you ignored
> the red flags, you knew that the Walk was strange
> while you were in it.

>
> (Am offering this as an outsider. I got burned in
> other things)
>
> This is difficult to sift out.
>
> Its not helpful to say people recognized thigns
> were strange while they were in the Walk.
>
> Some of us will recognize a group or church is
> 'off-key' but continue with it.
>
> But there are those among us who cannot easily
> identify that something is 'off key' or 'strange'.
>
> Those of us who grew up in strange families.
>
> We learn to ignore, rationlize even 'normalize'
> the strange behavior we witness at home.
>
> For example, my mother drank all the time.
>
> I learned to ignore the smell of alcohol on her
> breath.
>
> To this day, it takes me many extra minutes to
> recognize alcohol on people's breath.
>
> Yet I can pick up the aromas of other body odors,
> coffee, garlic, ocean breezes - to name but a few.
>
> Thats where growing up in some strange
> environments can lead people to ignore signals of
> danger or boundary violation.
>
> and may lead them to ignore red flags in a
> potentially bad relationship, job or church.

BINGO!
I wrote a lot more in responce and lost it. I would like to have some one to discuss this more.