I hope by utilizing this forum you will find a connection with people who lived through what you did. NancyB.



NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kj5fers
>
> I know this is an old post. Reaching out anyway. I
> would like to connect with old timers in
> particular. Not for gossip. We all need closure.

I ran some of these issues by a knowledabe friend. One word I said to him I had used above as I was quoting what others have stated not only on this forum but face to face and I did not put in quotes as I should have.

The word "slave labor". can not be edited to a more approirate term now. My friend called me on the words"slaves labor" I apologize... I know that may people who "volunteered" ended up feeling like they were "slaves." They "chose" to stay out of dedication to the cause. They "could have" walked away a lawyer in court would argue. I am not a lawyer.

My friend in not giving legal advice nor am I.

In regard to the "kingdom businesses" from what I know, I belive that there was welfare frd uais some of the "kingdom businesses." of course I have to question the book keeping and the tax filing. I am no acccountant. I think we all want to know how books were justified. The statutes of limitation maybe or may not be up.

The children of the workers in kingdom businesses would have no recollection of waht was going on but they were certainly impacted during crucial developmental stages.

i was told, that since jrs is and m are dead that may change how the authorites can handle the personal damage...there wer so many locations and people involved the speifics will al be different.

I have to take a break for bit, but I will continue waht I learned later tonight.

There is no doubt that many church of the Living Word memembers during the jrs era would have ptsd. If still, alive which members may have no conscience about more than honest mistakes? There were many very good men and families in the early churches. What role did they play in the really over the line indiscretions and lie cover ups? whye were some folks exempt from confessing in front of the congregaton?

Which former members expelled as nepulim out lived their spouses? Have the newer members who heard leader were divorced ever wondered why they were so spiritually blind to have married a Jezbel or Nephulim? And why were "we storming heaven" to kill these people? Is that a hate crime?

Since my death was prayer for, I questioned and argued so often, I will hazard a guess those those otehr owmen knew too much, too.

( Walt Disney was said to be a Neph. so some one told us to stay away from disney land. I lived with in in walking distance or got fee passes from where I worked, so i was rebelious. i went to Disney land with my kids. I may have picked up some eveil spirits. oh my!)

I have no first hand knowedge of whAt went on after my close contacts in the wk alhave passed. Only have the missing puzzles pieces I witnessed myself in the 60's to 80's. I was well grounded in the word. I see now tath there wasa a lot of not so Biblical and not spiritual things going on . Only illusions.

Is that a crime if you chose to buy snake oil from a con? Shame on us for buying bottle after bottle of sanke oil. I think we have to take repsoncibility for our choies. Where might the legal line be drawn that which leaders crossed over?

Statues of limitations may be up" I don't know. And I don't know what each individual may have to claim against the church will be so variable.

So getting reparation would be questionable as to what laws are in place; witnesses; long term damage; proof as in evidence etc.

I was advised that ptsd scars will always be a scar. closure would involved forgiving the wrong doers. Problem with the kids in some kingdom schools and I don't know how many all over the country, is that they had no part in their parents' choice to "volunteer for the walk" . The kids could not walk away.

Witnesses are either dead or seperated/ divided by location.(Dead man tell no tales. But is it not intereseted so many leaders died before their time?

If this could become a class action, those involved would have to prove membership; tax deduction for tiths. However it could boomerang if you claim you worked for a Kingdom biz as "slave labor" and you got wefare. or were getting benifits and working uder the table....this coud be so me that the leaders used to manipuate individuals. The reasons will be very broad.

Some who may need to apply for ssi, ssdi, or soc sec may not have paid into the system. That is a problem. But if the world would have ended in 1979 and we lived in the kingdom on earth we would not have a worry, would we?

Now, if perchance, any one can claim of ptsd from"slave labor" or mental abuse etc a good lawayer on ther otehr side woudl bring up mental illness or bad habits, jail time etc was the real cause of " you being so stupid as to not walk away. It was your won fault and you donated." ( Sorry for my harsh words. But lawyers are trained to dig deep and intimidate winesses)

Please note: not every church memember had the same problem occur as did others. EVen people whom we still knew for years claim they never had any indication of a probem of abuse in the same "kingdom school"

I also asked a knowledgeable person about the sale of churches. I'm not taking the time to look it up myself. the laws woud very from state to state. But I have a big question...who got them money from the property when all of these churches closed?...

I would think that there would be board of directors' trustees. I would like ther would be some kind of by-laws about how the money was to be divided if sold. or were the closed chruches bank rupt? I don't recall ever going to a business meeting. Maybe I was busy or not interested.

But when i joined ainstream churches members were always, always invited and encourage to give input and vote. I wasa kind of dsiturbed that there seemed to be no prayer or leading of the lord involved but strict business. Example: buying sound equipment for what kind of music that would draw mor people in to increase the offerings. Advertising for a worship director to hire ( what salary) that would bring in the most new comers and increase the offering. it may have been worded differntly in a churchish way, but is was every bit as musch as profit loss of a business.

i found it odd that the church biz meeting involved interviewing new youth pastors and potential salary and benefits. The commiment cards for tithe. It took bit for me to grasp the concept of being a pastor or secretary or book keeper was a paid careerer.

Does any one else share my naive observation?

I think we who contributing members had a right to know where the money was going. I can't say that I ever knew exactly on paper. Who might have those books now? ( I did over hear conversations from out side the curch office at one church LW by accident. I was also in a number of leader's homes in 3 states. I can say I lived far more frugally than they did.)

I would think that if your former walk meeting place closed down you could go to the local court house to start asking questions how you can find out how the money from the sale was distributed?

Please note: what I have claimed at certain churches certainly may not be what when on in other groups. But leaders in key churches did go on the road to the smaller church all over the country.

Sorry this is so long. My final statement is there seems to be some real fear. The support from others on these pages is wonderful. I hope survivors gets theri wheels turning in a postive way on some things I will say below. Remember I am not an expert. I have been researching and stil don;t know what course we want to take fro my son abuse ( Yes is was reported. But not handled well at all. Ther shuld be documented evdience of reports from a number of families. Thea child abuse soical workers system did a very poor job at that time. they historically made a lot of really big mistakes. But documents can be peiced togeher by some one if enough people can be cool calm and collected to request an investigation if we are willing to open a can of worms that will stink.

do not wish to get rich and famous from opening the can or worms. It will be releasing demons from Pandoras box you never imagined.

From several sources of information ( hersay) I am getting hints survivors feeling harrased; intimidated; threathened; cohersed; fearful etc. I encourage you to google the laws on threats via USPS. The post master general may be interested in gathering evidence. You have the right to ask your postal clerk with out much info how to turn a copy of something over to the post master general. they investigate mail fraud and mail theft differently than local police who tend to blow you off if is something sounds crazy.

Any threats or percieved threats on-line or email can be investigated as that is illegal as well. At some fine point homeland security may want to be involved. ( I got this from a credible retired military officer.

Postal codes and IP addressed can be zeroed in on.
Facbook frowns on false identities and trolls. Threats etc can be reported to FB. REad theri TOS Terms of sERvice carefully.

The IRS may be wanting a few puzzles pieces as well.

If you are reading my typos here, I am so happy you are still alive. If you are hurting, you are not alone. You have old friends some where who love you. so hang in there as we find the best solutions with what we have to work with.

I have had done my best to give as accurate info as possible tha I can recall. My wording may not be the best or interpretrated as I intended. I want the truth to come out. In the year 2018 we are all wiser than we were in years past about cults. Most of us were never prepared to see the warning signs.

Does any one know wher the book keeping is?
Has any one checked the local court houses for sale of property records?
Has anyone checked debt collector reports or for church bankruptsy?

If there were any profits from sale of church property who took the money?Any one know of the names of their local church board of trustees.

I would think a local court house could enlighten some of us. Church members should have been privy to the books on request.

I most certainly hope not!
Can you even imagine the potential for abuse???

I was just listening to a pastor from Brazil speak to a small group of men. He was asked, “What is the greatest obstacle you currently face?” I was surprised to hear that it was overcoming the spiritual abuse inflicted by evangelical Christians. I knew Brazilian politics and the Catholic Church in the area are well known for their corruption, but this was the first I’d heard of evangelical Christians being the problem. When asked what he meant by spiritual abuse he said it was similar to the Shepherding Movement that had swept through the United States a few years back. (If you are not familiar with the Shepherding Movement, it would be worth your time to do a little research since TLWF functions this way.) The Brazilian culture is very susceptible to strong leaders demanding that followers submit all areas of their lives to be directed by the pastor. Sound familiar? BTW, the “pastors” are typically accountable to nobody but themselves.

It’s interesting how submitting who you marry, if and where you go to school, what career path you should choose, what other Christians you can fellowship with, etc. can have such damaging consequences. Questioning him further after the meeting, it reminded me a lot of the damage addressed in this website. Victims of this abuse seldom want anything further to do with God, and the few who do, want nothing to do with being a part of a local fellowship again. Mistrust is a huge issue. Wise council is always good, but this type of “ministry” leaves the lives of people in shambles and fearful to form intimate relationships again.

Jeremiah 17:5-8 says, ”Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the Lord. He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives. But blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him. He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit.”

The question we need to ask ourselves is, “Based the type of fruit that is produced by TLWF, is the source God or man? I would suggest that most of us have already figured this out. My burden is to see the wounded healed and functioning in the Body again so the rest of us don’t miss out on what they were created to supply. The sooner we connect to the real Vine, the quicker our healing comes.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just listening to a pastor from Brazil speak
> to a small group of men. He was asked, “What is
> the greatest obstacle you currently face?” I was
> surprised to hear that it was overcoming the
> spiritual abuse inflicted by evangelical
> Christians. I knew Brazilian politics and the
> Catholic Church in the area are well known for
> their corruption, but this was the first I’d heard
> of evangelical Christians being the problem. When
> asked what he meant by spiritual abuse he said it
> was similar to the Shepherding Movement that had
> swept through the United States a few years back.
> (If you are not familiar with the Shepherding
> Movement, it would be worth your time to do a
> little research since TLWF functions this way.)
> The Brazilian culture is very susceptible to
> strong leaders demanding that followers submit all
> areas of their lives to be directed by the pastor.
> Sound familiar? BTW, the “pastors” are typically
> accountable to nobody but themselves.

Interesting--thanks for sharing this.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just listening to a pastor from Brazil speak
> to a small group of men. He was asked, “What is
> the greatest obstacle you currently face?” I was
> surprised to hear that it was overcoming the
> spiritual abuse inflicted by evangelical
> Christians. I knew Brazilian politics and the
> Catholic Church in the area are well known for
> their corruption, but this was the first I’d heard
> of evangelical Christians being the problem. When
> asked what he meant by spiritual abuse he said it
> was similar to the Shepherding Movement that had
> swept through the United States a few years back.
> (If you are not familiar with the Shepherding
> Movement, it would be worth your time to do a
> little research since TLWF functions this way.)
> The Brazilian culture is very susceptible to
> strong leaders demanding that followers submit all
> areas of their lives to be directed by the pastor.
> Sound familiar? BTW, the “pastors” are typically
> accountable to nobody but themselves.
>
> It’s interesting how submitting who you marry, if
> and where you go to school, what career path you
> should choose, what other Christians you can
> fellowship with, etc. can have such damaging
> consequences. Questioning him further after the
> meeting, it reminded me a lot of the damage
> addressed in this website. Victims of this abuse
> seldom want anything further to do with God, and
> the few who do, want nothing to do with being a
> part of a local fellowship again. Mistrust is a
> huge issue. Wise council is always good, but this
> type of “ministry” leaves the lives of people in
> shambles and fearful to form intimate
> relationships again.
>
> Jeremiah 17:5-8 says, ”Cursed is the one who
> trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his
> strength and whose heart turns away from the Lord.
> He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will
> not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell
> in the parched places of the desert, in a salt
> land where no one lives. But blessed is the man
> who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in
> him. He will be like a tree planted by the water
> that sends out its roots by the stream. It does
> not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always
> green. It has no worries in a year of drought and
> never fails to bear fruit.”
>
> The question we need to ask ourselves is, “Based
> the type of fruit that is produced by TLWF, is the
> source God or man? I would suggest that most of
> us have already figured this out. My burden is to
> see the wounded healed and functioning in the Body
> again so the rest of us don’t miss out on what
> they were created to supply. The sooner we
> connect to the real Vine, the quicker our healing
> comes.

"evangelical Christians being the problem" WOW! of course if 'god" looks like a person we know who uses spiritual termonolgy to get people to submit scarifically while "god" lives in luxery get drunk or high and lies without empathy or remorse...well, no "we" don't want anything to do with "god".

You are so right about "mistrust" and yet many of us had kept up a patterns of trusting liers who love bomb us. True for me anyway...so I act snarky rather than offering to give the shirt off my back like I did. Can it be a certian look or may the pattern of their speech or word choices? or is the the adrenalin rush? There is something in my head that feels like an "anointing". Any one else wonder?

I joined up with other churches "playing the church game" with one eye open just to be safe. I knew how to look the part so I could have Christian fellowship. What i saw was people in the main stream pretending to be holy just as much as I was acting a part in a demonination I coud not agree with.

I could kneel, bow, cross myself, chat a phrase but I did not mean it the ritua acts after being used to intersession and raising hands in worship. I found the mains stream sermons boring in bibical character. they were nothing more than social clubs and that is why many people joined the walk to find some real meat.



In my current opinion I think organized religious has nothing to do with a higher power that no human can ever comprehend. "nothing Understandable" is a defitnion of one name of the God we want to love and serve.

Right now, I have my own spiritual private relationship with that I don't understand. I don't do ritualistic behavior to get that source's attention. i read the bible as i always had. I read inspiraing books, but cherry pick rather than taking their words as a sole word from god.

I make a list and run my ideas across someone else in order to make my own good choicea . "God" gave me a brain to think for myself. I obviously have not found a replacement for a chruch.
I admit I still have issues with feeling a panic when trying to buy a cost effective package of toilet paper without permission. Don't ask! A few walkers will know what I am panicing about. I just ask my daughter to help me out by grabbing the TP and go on shopping.

i would like to be a fly on the wall to actually have seen some things.

A few statement remind me of MM stories where the foudn of a n MLM take big selelrs on a crusie. The will say something to the affect, " Oh my diamonds are so heavy. Will you hold them for me for a bit?" The Wife would walk awy leaving a new mm recriut holding the jewelry. Then they go home to tell the mazing story how they wer singled out by the leader as beign speci. The idea was to give the new mlm' that was privelged to win a trip the feel of wealth...and resiproisity.

A ride in the van or offer of wine in the upper room or the back room audiance with the leader was nothing but manipulation/ marketing technique. Who wants to feel like a dope that we weren't realy special aftet al to the leadership who thought they were JC or Mrs God?

Harsh reality hurts. ( Not a word from God) but I bleive that God can use this to for our spirital growth.

"Losing all sense of boundaries is so toxic to our personal identity. You don’t know where you end and another person begins. The goal of becoming a zero with the rim rubbed out is a classic example of living with no boundaries and placing ourselves in a position where we can be easily controlled by another. We become smaller than we really are, and the leader becomes larger than they really are. We lose all sense of what we should be saying yes or no to. The “oneness” experienced in TLWF leaves the one who has left the group in a position where they want nothing to do with the Body of Christ – just the opposite of what should happen. We are left with the feeling that there is no way in hell I’m going to let that ever happen to me again – and rightfully so."


larry lobo I agree with what you said about boundary issues. AS I have verbosely overstated is that some leaders in the walk were like unto" child abuser Not pointing a finger at any one, for the moment. During my personal recovery as a child absue survior before I my parents got into the church, I learned I had issues where I all too easily allowed psychos into my boundaries. I personally have to take responcibility to set up better boundaries for self.

it is possible that other walk survivors may want to look at boundaries as well. I believe that god is gracious to help us see where we need to plug the leaking dikes of our boundaries. Good book suggestion given in this thread.

I do tend to overwhelm. Hopefully one element of what I shared will be what the real heavenly father wants you to see in order to be what He wants you to be, not what JRS or his successors wanted you to be. Those people never loved you like God the Father, Jesus or advocate nor the holy spirit loves you forever. They had no right to deliberately impersonate diety on Earth.

NancyB I believe you. That your children or child were/was beaten while in a Kingdom School. It's not uncommon. As some teachers are untrained. In working with special needs kids. Like your son. It can happen while no one else is watching. In private. In the restroom. A closet.

Abusers/Narcissists don't seem abusive in the beginning. But the more you are involved with them. The abusive behavior seeps out. They wear your down. It can start with coldness. Indifference. Raising their voice. Verbal assaults. Spiteful. They wear you down. And if they drink. And when drunk. At times express love.

However, cruelty. Indifference. Are often a side effect of alcoholism. Very telling. Your comment. The inner circle surrounding John. Made excuses for his drunken behavior. Believing John was a victim of his Nephilim wife. The inner circle were intelligent. And vulnerable. But they enabled John. They prayed for death to a channeling spirit. And some prayed for the destruction of Martha. I heard their intercession. Some enablers in the inner circle. Were nurses. They didn't known better. They drank the kool aid. The enablers could have put John on a stretcher. Delivered him to the hospital for detox. And risk being excommunicated. Narcissists wear people down.